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freebird
02-12-2008, 09:16 PM
Reportedly, Aprilia has recalled all Manas (IT, UK, etc.) and told the dealers to not sell or allow people to test drive. Customers who purchased the Mana have been told to not ride the bike under any circumstances. It appears to be a throttle control issue.

dougan
02-12-2008, 09:30 PM
WOW!! :eek:

where is the info from....?

freebird
02-12-2008, 09:41 PM
where is the info from....?

Second-hand from the Italian and British forums.
I'm interested in AF1 posting the official information.

dougan
02-12-2008, 09:45 PM
Second-hand from the Italian and British forums.
I'm interested in AF1 posting the official information.

I'll call Centro in Zürich tomorrow/tonight when they wake up.... they generally find out about this stuff very quickly, so I'm surprised I didn't here it from them when we spoke earlier today.

Switzerland has Mana's... and Centro is the largest dealer.... I'm sure they aren't outta the loop.

Steve / AF1 Racing
02-12-2008, 11:53 PM
Xxxxx

Tdawg
02-13-2008, 12:04 AM
well, I hope all gets repaired and sorted before going global (US).

Pretty swift action! (considering it took Yamaha over 2 years to recall a potential big problem on one of my bikes)

Bremms
02-13-2008, 12:42 PM
Seems like Aprilia is in a bad way.. I really like my Mille but this
company has a lot of issues.. The Mille is now way out of date,
they make a STUPID CVT bike( I said it!!) Why use electronic throttle???
They can't make a charging system that doesn't cook the stator, and they
design a digital throttle control?? Aprilia has fallen way behind the curve,
has bad service and no direction. Product development seems at least 2-3
years behind and they are loosing sales. This is another nail in the coffin for me. I'm not going to even go into the issues with the 450/550, that was an economic folly. I'm sorry but this company has it's head up it's ass.

No focus at all.. the Capo and the Futura have all but gone, updating those
would make sense. They have no real replacements. The Tuono is a cool bike
but it's not very attractive compared to the competition.
They need to find a market focus instead of flailing around. Nobody seems
to want to say these things.

The Dr.Jon
02-13-2008, 01:34 PM
Reportedly, Aprilia has recalled all Manas (IT, UK, etc.) and told the dealers to not sell or allow people to test drive. Customers who purchased the Mana have been told to not ride the bike under any circumstances. It appears to be a throttle control issue.

Shame, it is a lot of fun for town riding. Just needs more power as Clarkson would say!:burnout:

DeBenGuzzi
02-13-2008, 02:13 PM
Shame, it is a lot of fun for town riding. Just needs more power as Clarkson would say!:burnout:

well name something that doesn't "need" more power? :burnout:

FUN DOG
02-13-2008, 02:57 PM
Seems like Aprilia is in a bad way.. I really like my Mille but this
company has a lot of issues.. The Mille is now way out of date,
they make a STUPID CVT bike( I said it!!) Why use electronic throttle???
They can't make a charging system that doesn't cook the stator, and they
design a digital throttle control?? Aprilia has fallen way behind the curve,
has bad service and no direction. Product development seems at least 2-3
years behind and they are loosing sales. This is another nail in the coffin for me. I'm not going to even go into the issues with the 450/550, that was an economic folly. I'm sorry but this company has it's head up it's ass.

No focus at all.. the Capo and the Futura have all but gone, updating those
would make sense. They have no real replacements. The Tuono is a cool bike
but it's not very attractive compared to the competition.
They need to find a market focus instead of flailing around. Nobody seems
to want to say these things.

You know, when I read your stuff above, I thought "you know, he's right." Aprilia is sort of a flailing entity.

But you know what? In the past, they have made the neatest stuff. I mean, give them some credit. They're experimental. They actually TRY shit for better or worse. When their bikes come out, it may not be "Best In Class," but you can bet it's going to be one-of-a-kind.

I like the way the Tuono looks. I think it's totally unique and that means everything to me.

My Futura is a perfect example of this. There's really nothing like it. And, it also happens to be one of the most reliable bikes on the planet (thanks largely to the Rotax). The thing just works. There's nothing I don't like about it---NOTHING.

People complain about the electrics, but once you get the stator wiring thing rigged and the fuel connector fixed, everything else is PERFECT. Best stock seat on the planet.

I'm very happy with my Aprilia...ecstatic is a better word, and I'm always interested in what they're coming out with next. I can't say that about a lot of other manufacturers.

If Piaggio would recognize what a jewel they have in Aprilia and kick them some real funding, things would be better for Aprilia and Piaggio.

hank
02-13-2008, 04:53 PM
A recall on a new model - BFD :soap:

In this month's RRW it lists several recently announced recalls here in the US:
25,422 Honda CBR 1000's
28,221 Suzuki GS500's
13,398 Suzuki GSX-R 1000's
Several models of Ducati's including the 1098's

I can't find a link to the actual article - so buy the magazine and remember, Aprilia's track record is actually better than you fear to believe...

The Dr.Jon
02-13-2008, 05:24 PM
well name something that doesn't "need" more power? :burnout:

George Bush......?

bobdavis73
02-13-2008, 06:01 PM
:funnypost:funnypost:funnypost:funnypost:funnypost :funnypost:funnypost

:plus:


LMAO!

Good one Dr. Jon

Oh and on another post,

Well said Fun Dog!

Bob

Bremms
02-13-2008, 06:34 PM
The problem with being that experimental is economic viability. I love
Aprilias, it's just that I don't want to see them go away. Give me a new
Futura not a goofy expensive CVT bike. The 450 550 bikes are really nice but are track/Sunday toys, a very limited market. The Shiver is a nice, I guess the Mana may have a decent market. I get a little nervous with Aprilia's own
motors. One of the reasons I bought the Mille was the Rotax mill. I haven't
had many problems with my Factory. They are shifting focus away from what
they did well before.

DeBenGuzzi
02-13-2008, 07:15 PM
The problem with being that experimental is economic viability. I love
Aprilias, it's just that I don't want to see them go away. Give me a new
Futura not a goofy expensive CVT bike. The 450 550 bikes are really nice but are track/Sunday toys, a very limited market. The Shiver is a nice, I guess the Mana may have a decent market. I get a little nervous with Aprilia's own
motors. One of the reasons I bought the Mille was the Rotax mill. I haven't
had many problems with my Factory. They are shifting focus away from what
they did well before.

yeah Rotax is AMAZING, they are so rediculously bullet proof outside of some stator connector issues but mechanically they're tough as nails. They just came out with a New outboard motor that doesn't need to be broken in and any service what-so-ever for 3 years AND NEVER requires an oil change, I have no idea how they do it but I'm damn impressed. BRP is better at engines than honda IMO. :worship:

Micah / AF1 Racing
02-13-2008, 07:21 PM
I too am opposed at all levels to electronic throttles. I know they are here to stay. My BMW (1996 750il) has a pair, my 2004 Ford has one, Ed and Steve's Corvettes have them, Jon and Kirks BMW's 2001-2003 have them and in cars they seem to be fine. A bike is not a car!

On a bike I want not to have additional unneeded stuff. I do not want ABS, I do not want an electronic throttle, linked brakes, purely cosmetic ANYTHING. I like the purity of purpose in bikes. I love the idea of the Mana, hell I have 4 on order and number one is staying here as an R&D and demo mule.

I think the hot ticket may be an aftermarket cable throttle conversion on all the bikes that use them, Yamahas and Aprilias included. There is just such brilliant simplicity and fail safe operation with a pair of cables....which quite ironically the bikes all still have, just one goes to a reostat and the other is a backup closer cable.

I fear not change. I fear added complexity without any sort of appreciable gain.

QuickHX
02-13-2008, 07:49 PM
I fear not change. I fear added complexity without any sort of appreciable gain.

Whoah, TOTally Yoda...

Likes it, do I...

Bill in OKC
02-13-2008, 10:22 PM
An answer to a question no one asked - or something

Ribbit
02-14-2008, 12:37 AM
Seems like Aprilia is in a bad way.. I really like my Mille but this
company has a lot of issues.. The Mille is now way out of date,
they make a STUPID CVT bike( I said it!!) Why use electronic throttle???
They can't make a charging system that doesn't cook the stator, and they
design a digital throttle control?? Aprilia has fallen way behind the curve,
has bad service and no direction. Product development seems at least 2-3
years behind and they are loosing sales. This is another nail in the coffin for me. I'm not going to even go into the issues with the 450/550, that was an economic folly. I'm sorry but this company has it's head up it's ass.

No focus at all.. the Capo and the Futura have all but gone, updating those
would make sense. They have no real replacements. The Tuono is a cool bike
but it's not very attractive compared to the competition.
They need to find a market focus instead of flailing around. Nobody seems
to want to say these things.

I grow weary of people who are nothing but doom and gloom. you might be right, but I doubt it.

The last motorcycle I purchased was from another small company and thats part of the reason I bought it. it is different, its not a household name, yet it worked amazingly well. and on the boards there were plenty of doom and gloomers who were just POSITIVE that the end was near because their voltage regulator turns out to be merely adaquate for the bike and not up to the task of multiple headlights, electric clothes, a coffee cup heater and nipple warmers.

Yet here it is 9 years later and my bike runs great, I havent had to replace the voltage regulator, the company is doing great and yet I am sure if I went back to those boards someone would still think the sky was falling.

I come here for technical assistance and to learn about what I have. I like to work on things myself and its nice when others do too and have some advice that saves me some headaches, but I dont think I can handle reading these areas for all the dour outlooks.

My bikes are my toys. They are are fun and bring me joy like toys do for a child. I don't need to read captain bringdown.

williamr
02-14-2008, 03:46 AM
It's a pity that the Mana is subject a safety recall, as it's going to hit it's sales. It's ironic that the problem is nothing to do with any of the really innovative parts of the bike - not that are any, it's just the way that the components are packaged together - but in the eyes of many people it's those parts that will unfairly be blamed.

Rob

gahboo
02-14-2008, 02:07 PM
yeah Rotax is AMAZING, they are so rediculously bullet proof

The primary reason I bought the Tuono is because of the Rotax engine. I have a BMW F650GS that has the thumper version of it and it is indestructible. I wanted that reliability in a Vtwin, so the Ape won out.

AceOfSpades
02-16-2008, 05:53 AM
On a bike I want not to have additional unneeded stuff. I do not want ABS, I do not want an electronic throttle, linked brakes, purely cosmetic ANYTHING. I like the purity of purpose in bikes.

:plus:

make's u ask youreself's how did ppl ride bike's in 70's or 80's without all those electronic "helpers"

freebird
02-16-2008, 11:27 AM
I do not want ABS, I do not want an electronic throttle, linked brakes...

The recall doesn't frighten me. I want the Mana now and when the half-faired version with ABS arrives next year I'll buy that too. However. I'm not a fan of linked brakes and i absolutely hate the alarm system and immobilizer.

By the way, what is the latest word on the USA arrival for the Mana?

Steve / AF1 Racing
02-16-2008, 12:16 PM
The recall doesn't frighten me. I want the Mana now and when the half-faired version with ABS arrives next year I'll buy that too. However. I'm not a fan of linked brakes and i absolutely hate the alarm system and immobilizer.

By the way, what is the latest word on the USA arrival for the Mana?

Our A.O.P. says soonest availability is Q3, which probably translates to ~September.

DeBenGuzzi
02-18-2008, 12:15 AM
My 2000 Guzzi V11 had the throttle stick on me once(almost twice), I was near my house but the way they mount the cable to the butterflys there is a arm that connects the two TB's and gunk got inside one of the ball joints and jamed it. Just because the old way always worked for you doesn't mean there aren't any problems with it or ways to improve it. I wouldn't have had that problem with an electronic throttle(well if they had two cervos and not connected tb's with a rod)

kimohixon
02-19-2008, 01:22 AM
has anyone been hearing about a replacement of the rsvr, supposedly based off of a whole new chassis and engine?Or am I behind times on this issue?

Frazzermac
02-19-2008, 02:54 AM
Just sold my '51 RSV Mille all it ever needed in 6+ years was a headlight bulb and voltage regulator it had done 21,000 miles...

I'm waiting for the V4 & V1200 either one is going to good, but I'm staying with Aprilia:plus::plus:


You know, when I read your stuff above, I thought "you know, he's right." Aprilia is sort of a flailing entity.

But you know what? In the past, they have made the neatest stuff. I mean, give them some credit. They're experimental. They actually TRY shit for better or worse. When their bikes come out, it may not be "Best In Class," but you can bet it's going to be one-of-a-kind.

I like the way the Tuono looks. I think it's totally unique and that means everything to me.

My Futura is a perfect example of this. There's really nothing like it. And, it also happens to be one of the most reliable bikes on the planet (thanks largely to the Rotax). The thing just works. There's nothing I don't like about it---NOTHING.

People complain about the electrics, but once you get the stator wiring thing rigged and the fuel connector fixed, everything else is PERFECT. Best stock seat on the planet.

I'm very happy with my Aprilia...ecstatic is a better word, and I'm always interested in what they're coming out with next. I can't say that about a lot of other manufacturers.

If Piaggio would recognize what a jewel they have in Aprilia and kick them some real funding, things would be better for Aprilia and Piaggio.

Jon / AF1 Racing
02-19-2008, 03:17 PM
I too am opposed at all levels to electronic throttles. I know they are here to stay. My BMW (1996 750il) has a pair, my 2004 Ford has one, Ed and Steve's Corvettes have them, Jon and Kirks BMW's 2001-2003 have them and in cars they seem to be fine. A bike is not a car!

On a bike I want not to have additional unneeded stuff. I do not want ABS, I do not want an electronic throttle, linked brakes, purely cosmetic ANYTHING. I like the purity of purpose in bikes. I love the idea of the Mana, hell I have 4 on order and number one is staying here as an R&D and demo mule.

Bah! The Internet will never catch on!

Micah is the guy who crashed my BMW bike because of a stuck open throttle... Due to a stuck cable. ABS probably would have saved his ass.

Befbever
02-19-2008, 03:49 PM
Micah is the guy who crashed my BMW bike because of a stuck open throttle... Due to a stuck cable. ABS probably would have saved his ass.
Maybe a recall would have prevented the stuck cable. ;)

ZeroTwoRSV
02-20-2008, 08:02 AM
Sometimes it takes those "doom and gloom" people to spur rapid improvement. I don't think AMA superbike is going anywhere either, but that doesn't mean it couldn't use some help. Clearly there is a huge shake up going on over there, which will hopefully bring positive change.

Aprilia is no longer the company I subscribed to years ago and purchased 2 bikes from. After owning my '02 RSV I had no problems buying the Falco. Now, as I look at new models, both the form and function leave me wanting. Don't get me wrong, I can't use 80% of what my Falco can do, but still, that is not really the point is it (unless you are a cruiser company)?

I do, however, applaud them for recalling ALL of the bikes in need of correction immediately, honestly. This is something more companies need to do.

What does this really mean to me and others? Good deals on 04 - 07 Milles?

Alfie Whizz
02-20-2008, 05:57 PM
It ain't all bad.

Watch this gushing review from MCN.

"This Mana is a brilliant, brilliant bike"

Video (http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=1425856510)

DeBenGuzzi
02-20-2008, 06:21 PM
Well, I'm a first class weirdo, but often I find the kill switch and clutch to be handy in those situations...:)

well the mana is lacking a clutch leaver as the british call it. Kill swtich yet but it would take me a second in an emergency to find that when I normally react with the clutch, and that one second could be the difference between serious injury or not. I hope it gets sorted and is as reliable as the RSV series, it would make a great town bike or if I was in college I'd want one over a scooter hands down.

freebird
02-21-2008, 12:18 PM
it would take me a second in an emergency to find that when I normally react with the clutch...

Only true if you were borrowing somebody else's bike. The first scooter I rode I grabbed for the clutch three times before I got into the routine and the disconcerting feeling that I was going to stall lasted about ten minutes. It's only initially disconcerting until the brain sorts it out. Now, I can jump on a scooter or motorcycle and my mind has different hand-brain mappings that I am equally skilled at. Unless a person has difficulty learning new skills and can't process the difference between riding a mini-bike vs. bicycle or snowmobile vs. ATV or snowboarding vs. skiing I wont be a problem. The mind adapts rather quickly except for those people who really can't chew bubblegum and skip at the same time.

QuickHX
02-21-2008, 12:24 PM
Bah! The Internet will never catch on!

Micah is the guy who crashed my BMW bike because of a stuck open throttle... Due to a stuck cable. ABS probably would have saved his ass.


Shouldn't have let him have at your stash first, either!

Italijet
02-22-2008, 03:38 AM
The mind adapts rather quickly except for those people who really can't chew bubblegum and skip at the same time.


No Shit.... Jump rope and chew gum at the same time ??? Some posters that are here would become asphixiated just by trying to chew gum :eek: :)









:kidding:

windy
02-22-2008, 05:04 AM
well name something that doesn't "need" more power? :burnout:


Araihead's typing speed:rolleyes:

DeBenGuzzi
02-22-2008, 05:25 AM
Correct, however the bike Jon and I were referring to was a BMW, which probably had a clutch. What do the Brits call literary comprehension? That's a useful skill in college. :happy:

True, but youre a thread hijacker as this was all really about the mana, not the BMW. SO I tried to relate it back to the mana situation, Ass.

and I wonder if its the same Kevin H we kicked off the Guzzi board. sounds like it.

CapoGrandad
02-26-2008, 11:19 AM
I see from the Maxmoto fourm that the problem appears to be something to do with dirt being able to get into the system, rather than an electronic fault.
No more detail than that.

budoist
02-26-2008, 02:01 PM
I see from the Maxmoto fourm that the problem appears to be something to do with dirt being able to get into the system, rather than an electronic fault.
No more detail than that.

It has to be something inherent to the unique design of the Mana, and its implementation of Aprilia's ride-by-wire technology, and not a fault in the technology itself. The Shiver has been out longer than the Mana and also uses RBW exclusively, yet it is not a part of the recall. Unless the Mana has a next generation RBW then you would expect a recall on both models.

Good on Aprilia for issuing the recall and getting the problem fixed. From what I read on other sites, many manufacturers have these types of problems; they just don't issue the recall.

CapoGrandad
03-04-2008, 10:12 AM
Have a look at last few entries in this forum. There is an owner who has had the recall mod done. Sounds like a little plastic cover of some sort, so not a fundamental problen with RBW.

http://www.maxmoto.co.uk/cgi-bin/maxmoto/msboard.pl?subject=Gilera_Ferro

That norwegian
03-20-2008, 08:05 AM
Very informative Doc.


Could you now tell us about the Aprilia (no)policy regarding the link plates?
:cheers:

That norwegian
03-20-2008, 11:12 AM
Thank you for your informative reply. I do for sure agree with you in many ways. I am not worried about the recalls that are official and distributed through open channels.

But sometimes you find incidents that for a lay man (the owner) apparently is similar (like the link plate story going on in this forum); I do for sure understand that owners are worrying about things like this.
When you also find a dealership with a good international reputation is starting to offer these kinds of replacement parts, any normal person will start to wonder what is going on.

olie
03-20-2008, 04:15 PM
I have posted on the link issue. I do not see proper analysis on this. I see one person that is trying to approach this properly (MILLEMILLE) but some of the other posters seem to jump on anything that will make the case. Sorry, I hope you are not the one involved with that accident. But if you look at the lack of evidence, how can anyone ask Aprilia to act on information that is so limited. I know people have been hurt, and that is horrible, but the cause and the details are somewhat limited. If there was better information, or more failures (heaven forbid) they might act. Read my post on the link, it is pretty clear. Sorry to hijack the thread.

Dr. E

Hey Doc,

One accident is one too many. Aprilia as the manufacturer has the duty to review their design, using all the proper models with the input corrected from the findings in used bikes with higher mileage. Also, as a responsable company, should ask for the metalurgical analysis of the failed parts.

Personally, who cares about my unpaid opinion, I believe the plates are properly design, although maybe optimized to minimize weight. Obvious they are not designed to be on a bike like the CapoNord. I have a Tuono and I am not changing the plates for others built without any stress analysis study. Better stop here.

olie
03-22-2008, 02:36 PM
I agree that one failure is too many, but the issue still remains, when it failed. If you review my post on the subject you will see how I arrive at my conclusion. Looking at the photos, they raise many questions about several things. In the first photo, how does an unrestrained wheel have enough force restraint to bend the lip. I ran some calcs on this, and unfortunately I had no idea what the impact media was, but I come up with over 2800lbs (+- 720 lbs) of force, now can I ask you, do you think a wheel that has no linkage attached to it would remain in its proper position without breaking through the subframe? I seriously doubt it. If I could see the impact zone (it is too late now) I could determine mathematically that this link broke in the crash (after the fact) or pre crash impact. There is no doubt that it broke. But if it broke in the crash, then this whole discussion is moot. Everything else on that thread is conjecture "i heard from this guy that works with a friend who owns an AP dealership that his rep said these were breaking. I have to call BS on those, because they just aren't reliable.

Again, sorry for the Hijack guy, this thread is for the MANA recall.

Dr. E
Doc,
It seems that nobody including Aprilia did a metalurgical analysis of the failed part, where the mechanisms of failure would have been evident. Without that you will never get to a proper conclusion.

Regarding your calcs, I respectifully may put them in question, unless you stated their basis. Obviously if you assume only shear or tension would have been pretty easy(?) to get a conclusion, but when you put in the equation some possible torsion, fatigue and possible defective material (not homogeneous) that can get very complex. BTW, personally I may agree with the impact theory, that's one of the reasons tht I did not chnge the plate.

Like you I am sorry to hijack this thread, but...this subject is too import just to be ignored.

May be someone can take these postings that are not applicable to the Mana and re-post them in a new or applicable old thread.

Italijet
03-28-2008, 03:16 PM
Doc,
It seems that nobody including Aprilia did a metalurgical analysis of the failed part, where the mechanisms of failure would have been evident. Without that you will never get to a proper conclusion.


Olie,
Scott2ride seems to have had the test done that you require see here (http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1663719&postcount=569):

pete roper
04-03-2008, 08:01 PM
Do I detect the scent of an April Folls gag?:happy:

Pete

Fox Fader
08-23-2008, 02:57 PM
http://www.facua.org/es/noticia.php?Id=2820&IdAmbito=22&idioma=1