PDA

View Full Version : Cycle World Bike Show San Mateo



RXV_Poor
11-17-2007, 12:40 PM
I was at the Cycle World Bike show yesterday and the rep told me October next year for the U.S. for the MXV.:bond:

The SXV & RXV have the oil line reroute done from the factory. I have to admit that it pissed me off. I've heard from many dealers that this was not necessary. If this was not necessary then why was it on the 08 bikes:soap:. They do have a nice little tank that bolts to the rear rad shroud bolt. No I didn't take a pic and yes I should have.

The bikes had extra plumbing on the left side. I didn't look that close to where everything went.

Orange, I wanted to know if this is your Rikman?

duc slayer
11-17-2007, 12:45 PM
his was green, but that dosen't mean he didn't paint it or have another rickman

orangerider2
11-17-2007, 02:30 PM
Sometimes the dealers are the last to know! Some of what i have posted here you will see on the new bikes, the hose reroute, dual power settings on the fly, more bottom end, better forks and valving, better seat that flows with the tank, lighter stronger frames, get rid of the yellow button and improved starter. Most dealers & their personal don`t spend any if little time on the machines that they sell, where we in the R&D spend hundreds of hours and thousands of miles on a said machine.

And no that is not my Rickman, I don`t have any bikes in the show, but the bike looks nice.:cigar:

waxxer
11-17-2007, 10:39 PM
Sometimes the dealers are the last to know! Some of what i have posted here you will see on the new bikes, the hose reroute, dual power settings on the fly, more bottom end, better forks and valving, better seat that flows with the tank, lighter stronger frames, get rid of the yellow button and improved starter. Most dealers & their personal don`t spend any if little time on the machines that they sell, where we in the R&D spend hundreds of hours and thousands of miles on a said machine.

And no that is not my Rickman, I don`t have any bikes in the show, but the bike looks nice.:cigar:

Aside from the frame are any of the new features capable of being retrofitted, such as the starter etc.??

Thanks Orange!!

orangerider2
11-17-2007, 10:48 PM
Yes, most everything can, the dual power set up, could cost some coin though???:cigar:

ckevg
11-17-2007, 10:55 PM
Sometimes the dealers are the last to know! Some of what i have posted here you will see on the new bikes, the hose reroute, dual power settings on the fly, more bottom end, better forks and valving, better seat that flows with the tank, lighter stronger frames, get rid of the yellow button and improved starter. Most dealers & their personal don`t spend any if little time on the machines that they sell, where we in the R&D spend hundreds of hours and thousands of miles on a said machine.

:cigar:

Is the increase in bottom end power a factor of internal engine changes or ecu mapping?

orangerider2
11-17-2007, 11:08 PM
Throttle bodies and mapping.:cigar:

RXV_Poor
11-17-2007, 11:22 PM
Yes, most everything can, the dual power set up, could cost some coin though???:cigar:

Have you seen my disclaimer?:kidding:

amauri
11-17-2007, 11:40 PM
The SXV & RXV have the oil line reroute done from the factory.
This is not true, the rep you spoke to is mistaken.
The oil lines and crankcase venting are unchanged from the 07 models.


They do have a nice little tank that bolts to the rear rad shroud bolt.
That tank and extra plumbing is all part of the SAS emission control system required for US road certification.

I was at Grange this past Wed and Thu testing 22 bikes.
Aprilia invited all US dealers, rented the track and brought 11 RXV's and 11 SXV's - all 08 models.

We rode the bikes on the kart track and on the desert from sunup to sundown on both days.
I can assure you that there are no oil line or venting changes for the 08 bikes.

amauri
11-17-2007, 11:52 PM
Throttle bodies and mapping.:cigar:

The 08 throttle bodies are identical except for the fast idle knob and the emissions plumbing.
On our VDB race bikes we have both the old and new versions throttle bodies, there are no performance differences.

They now have emissions calibrated maps with the latest AXONE version 5.1.17.
The unrestricted maps for std exhausts have also been updated and are applicable to 06 - 08 bikes.

RXV_Poor
11-18-2007, 02:02 AM
This is not true, the rep you spoke to is mistaken.
The oil lines and crankcase venting are unchanged from the 07 models.


That tank and extra plumbing is all part of the SAS emission control system required for US road certification.

I was at Grange this past Wed and Thu testing 22 bikes.
Aprilia invited all US dealers, rented the track and brought 11 RXV's and 11 SXV's - all 08 models.

We rode the bikes on the kart track and on the desert from sunup to sundown on both days.
I can assure you that there are no oil line or venting changes for the 08 bikes.

Thanks for setting me straight amauri. :plus:

orangerider2
11-18-2007, 03:24 AM
I wonder what i`am looking at? I have 20-20 vision and that`s good for an old man.:cigar:

amauri
11-18-2007, 09:50 AM
I wonder what i`am looking at? I have 20-20 vision and that`s good for an old man.:cigar:

What are you saying?

Jony2Stones
11-18-2007, 10:25 AM
The 08 throttle bodies are identical except for the fast idle knob and the emissions plumbing.
On our VDB race bikes we have both the old and new versions throttle bodies, there are no performance differences.


Hey Amauri -- would there be any starting benefit and what would be required to retro this new assembly onto the older 2007 bikes???

amauri
11-18-2007, 11:34 AM
Hey Amauri -- would there be any starting benefit and what would be required to retro this new assembly onto the older 2007 bikes???

We don't use the cold start knob on the race bikes, in fact I've removed them from our throttle bodies and the yellow button is also removed.
It is not possible to retrofit the new knob on the old TB.

I really think that once the cold starting procedure is understood, these bikes start very easily.

What everyone needs to understand is that when you first push the start button, the ECU does not squirt fuel during the first three seconds of cranking while synchronizing the crankshaft timing. This is very apparent with a cold motor.

On a properly setup bike with the updated map, you should not turn the throttle while cranking for three seconds, then crack it open just a little and hold it until the bike fires.
Let it run as slow as possible to build oil pressure and warm-up.

Jony2Stones
11-18-2007, 11:44 AM
On a properly setup bike with the updated map, you should not turn the throttle while cranking for three seconds, then crack it open just a little and hold it until the bike fires.
Let it run as slow as possible to build oil pressure and warm-up.

This is how I do start mine --- I was more wondering if the 08's had a more "typical" FI startup method.

Thanks & :cheers:

waxxer
11-18-2007, 01:21 PM
What are you saying?

Engineering revisions are constantly being made at the stage of development. You both could simply be looking at bikes from different build releases.

What actually hits the dealerships may still be different from bikes you have experienced.


Thanks for the updates. :cheers::cheers::cheers:

duc slayer
11-18-2007, 01:25 PM
it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the changes (house re-route and such) were done to the new euro bike's, which would mean that we won't see the changes until 09

amauri
11-18-2007, 01:54 PM
The hose re-route some of you are doing to your bikes will not be incorporated from the factory because it is not correct.

irie
11-18-2007, 02:02 PM
I wonder what i`am looking at? I have 20-20 vision and that`s good for an old man.:cigar:


My eyesight is way better than 20/20!

(Thanks to Lasik laser eye surgery 6 years ago ;))

irie
11-18-2007, 02:04 PM
The hose re-route some of you are doing to your bikes will not be incorporated from the factory because it is not correct.

I agree.

I talked with an engineer who understands how the engine works and have implemented the hose routing accordingly. Interestingly Amauri, you have met him in the last few weeks! :)

spencer
11-18-2007, 02:31 PM
I agree.

I talked with an engineer who understands how the engine works and have implemented the hose routing accordingly. Interestingly Amauri, you have met him in the last few weeks! :)

So then whats the proper procedure. Just when I thought I had it right:bangwall:

Spence?

irie
11-18-2007, 05:12 PM
The crankcase 'vent hose' is not a vent hose, it's a crankcase oil level balance and breather system. So oil needs to be able to move up it then back down again like some Cosworth engines which need oil balance reservoirs because of high piston speed.

spencer
11-18-2007, 05:47 PM
The crankcase 'vent hose' is not a vent hose, it's a crankcase oil level balance and breather system. So oil needs to be able to move up it then back down again like some Cosworth engines which need oil balance reservoirs because of high piston speed.

I did the "Y" pipe connection with the tube from in front of the gear shift to the 3/8 line that runs from the crankcase to the oil resevoir, then out of the resevoir into a catch can. Should I change this?

Many thanks....

Spence

amauri
11-18-2007, 06:03 PM
So then whats the proper procedure. Just when I thought I had it right:bangwall:
Spence?

Put it back to the way it was from the factory.

spencer
11-18-2007, 06:14 PM
Put it back to the way it was from the factory.

I still dont understand:confused: I rerouted it so I wouldnt get all that oil in the airbox:bangwall:.... and Yes, I only fill with correct level of oil:). Is oil in the airbox normal then? Seemed excessive to me.

Could you explain in laymans terms why they cant be connected?

Thanks in advance,
Spence

orangerider2
11-19-2007, 12:18 AM
Spencer

It`s better to have the hoses going to a catch can than into the air box, the only area that a problem could arise is with the breather hose, it must remain a breather it must be connected to a free flowing vented catch can, if not it is no longer a breather and merely a vent, this would affect oil pressures and engine function, the length also affects engine function, you can fine tune an engine via an engine breather.

The vent hose near the shit lever is more an expansion-overflow tube than anything else, and when the engine is not running oil within the vent retreats back into the engine.

The trans vent is just that a simple vent.

Running hoses into the air box is just a matter of economics, and nothing more.

It doesn`t take much to see the problem of running these hoses into the air box it`s not rocket science.:cigar:

irie
11-19-2007, 05:26 AM
I have installed a separate reservoir (which is at the same height as the air box and also on the right hand side of the bike) that oil can move up into then drain back down from in exactly the same way as the air box would do.

The tube from the crank to the reservoir goes 'uphill' all the way and follows the same routing as the original hose.

Can be seen here (http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1634035&postcount=548)

spencer
11-19-2007, 07:48 AM
Spencer

It`s better to have the hoses going to a catch can than into the air box, the only area that a problem could arise is with the breather hose, it must remain a breather it must be connected to a free flowing vented catch can, if not it is no longer a breather and merely a vent, this would affect oil pressures and engine function, the length also affects engine function, you can fine tune an engine via an engine breather.

The vent hose near the shit lever is more an expansion-overflow tube than anything else, and when the engine is not running oil within the vent retreats back into the engine.

The trans vent is just that a simple vent.

Running hoses into the air box is just a matter of economics, and nothing more.

It doesn`t take much to see the problem of running these hoses into the air box it`s not rocket science.:cigar:


:confused: So as long as its breathing as efficiently as stock there should be no issues? Other than a deteriorated engine what are the symptoms its not breathing correctly??

Spence

Sorry RXVPoor, didnt mean to hi-jack your thread

amauri
11-19-2007, 10:11 AM
:confused: So as long as its breathing as efficiently as stock there should be no issues? Other than a deteriorated engine what are the symptoms its not breathing correctly??

There is nothing wrong with the stock crankcase venting and oil line routing setup.
We've just finished a 10 race season in the AMA Supermoto and won the unlimited championship without a single DNF.
We did it with stock 550 motors using the stock crankcase venting and oil line routing.

Orangerider2,
You're always talking about all the R&D work and thousands of miles of testing you do on these bikes, who are you doing all this work for?
I know Aprilia does not contract out its R&D work, in fact many other motorcycle companies like BMW contract out their own R&D to Aprilia.

RXV_Poor
11-19-2007, 10:13 AM
:confused: So as long as its breathing as efficiently as stock there should be no issues? Other than a deteriorated engine what are the symptoms its not breathing correctly??

Spence

Sorry RXVPoor, didnt mean to hi-jack your thread

No worries info is always appreciated.

spencer
11-19-2007, 10:25 AM
I feel the tension rising already... I think I'll just back away from the bike till spring to avoid any future disagreements between board members.

Sorry, didnt mean to start anything:o

Spence

RXV_Poor
11-19-2007, 10:34 AM
There is nothing wrong with the stock crankcase venting and oil line routing setup.
We've just finished a 10 race season in the AMA Supermoto and won the unlimited championship without a single DNF.
We did it with stock 550 motors using the stock crankcase venting and oil line routing.

amauri, I don't claim to have your knowledge or experience and I know that the bikes you take care are ridden way harder than mine is or will be.

My question is are we comparing apples to apples considering engine tear down intervals? My RXV only has about 500 miles on because of lack of riding time without a tear down. I mostly ride 1st & 2nd gear tight trails (for me). Do you tear down your engine after every race?

When I did the hose reroute for a few reasons.

I was quite surprised when I did the catch can reroute by the amount of pressure that was generated by the motor at idle. This led me to believe that the problems that the engine pressure may cause is run time related. More hours on the motor = more time for the pressure possible aid in seal & gasket failures.

I also was my bike with a pressure washer and I've hit the AF1 air filter with the stream which in turn put water in the air box and would put water in the motor after it settled in the air box because of how the oil lines are routed to the air box.

I'm looking for your thoughts based on your experience to see if my ideas are even valid and please read my disclaimer.

RXV_Poor
11-19-2007, 10:35 AM
I feel the tension rising already... I think I'll just back away from the bike till spring to avoid any future disagreements between board members.

Sorry, didnt mean to start anything:o

Spence

Spence don't worry if we didn't argue we wouldn't learn anything.

RZRob
11-19-2007, 10:38 AM
So what, 3 pages and only a picture of some 'ol Rickman (no offense)? Is that to say there was nothing else worth seeing?

Come on folks,
:pics:

RZ Rob

RXV_Poor
11-19-2007, 11:15 AM
So what, 3 pages and only a picture of some 'ol Rickman (no offense)? Is that to say there was nothing else worth seeing?

Come on folks,
:pics:

RZ Rob

All right, all right I'll try to post some tonight. I will say I don't think I took a pic of any Aprilias. I wasn't down with bold new graphics.

amauri
11-19-2007, 12:08 PM
amauri, I don't claim to have your knowledge or experience and I know that the bikes you take care are ridden way harder than mine is or will be.
My apologies if I come across as an arrogant know-it-all, I'm the first to admit that I don't know everything and this forum is a great source of knowledge for me as well as everyone who participates in these discussions.
I do believe that some people are making modifications that are not only unnecessary but also incorrect for these bikes.
All I can do is offer my opinions on what I've experienced first hand with these bikes, both on the race track and while working on customer bikes at Spectrum.



I was quite surprised when I did the catch can reroute by the amount of pressure that was generated by the motor at idle. This led me to believe that the problems that the engine pressure may cause is run time related. More hours on the motor = more time for the pressure possible aid in seal & gasket failures.

Crankcase pressure is normal with any motor, you should not only feel a positive pressure but also negative pressure or suction as the pistons push air in and out of the crankcase (I'm talking about the bottom of the pistons here).
Disconnect the crankcase vent hose (big hose on LH side) and you will feel both pressure and suction while the motor is running.


I also was my bike with a pressure washer and I've hit the AF1 air filter with the stream which in turn put water in the air box and would put water in the motor after it settled in the air box because of how the oil lines are routed to the air box.

Sure some water will get into the airbox, both while normal ridding in the rain or washing the bike, in a previous post we've talked about this.
Because water ingestion is always a potential problem on any bike, the airbox was designed in such a way to minimize that potential. That is also why we run a stock airbox including the rubber snorkels on our VDB race bikes.

Look inside your airbox, on the RH front side there is a sub compartment with a foam anti-splash filter.
That compartment catches oil mist/droplets from the main vent and returns it to the motor.
Because of that compartment, you could have a significant amount of water in the airbox and it will not get into the motor. I'm not talking about condensation here.

orangerider2
11-19-2007, 12:55 PM
amauri, why all the drama? You know as well as I, that the hose reroute was run on the US team.:cigar:

amauri
11-19-2007, 05:21 PM
amauri, why all the drama? You know as well as I, that the hose reroute was run on the US team.:cigar:

I am the US team, mechanic that is. No one else works on our team's bikes.

Look closely at the attached photo of Darryl on his bike taken at the Connecticut race, do you see any "T" fitting on the vent hose?

Last year Ed Lozano tried the hose re-route and found it did not help, Darryl’s bike still dumped oil all over the place including while staging on the starting grid of the SM race in Denver. It was raining that race so you can imagine the horrible start he got with oil and water on the ground.

At that time Ed didn't know about the oil pump seal nor the crankcase sealant issues that are the primary cause of blowing oil in the airbox (besides the obvious overfilling).

Ed told you about the experimental re-route and you posted on the forum without fully testing or understanding how the vent system on these motors work.

So what about my question, who are you doing all this R&D work for?

RXV_Poor
11-19-2007, 05:52 PM
I don't know if the reroute does anything or not but I do know this. I no longer have oil in my air box which I did have and oddly since I did the reroute I've never had a drop of oil in my catch can.


Sure some water will get into the airbox, both while normal ridding in the rain or washing the bike, in a previous post we've talked about this.
Because water ingestion is always a potential problem on any bike, the airbox was designed in such a way to minimize that potential. That is also why we run a stock airbox including the rubber snorkels on our VDB race bikes.

I had a pool of water close to an inch deep after pressure washing my bike. For the record I use a low pressure pressure washer. This is my own fault and I need to pay more attention when washing it. Depending on the conditions I run the snorkel. It usually is in heavy rain or heavy snow.

The bike seems to run better with the AF1 filter and I like the sound, so to me this is an acceptable risk. Now I do admit this is kind of dumb because the 550 has too much power for where I ride anyways.:eek:

I was thinking about your crankcase pressure comments and I never thought of the negative pressure or suction. Is this done when the piston is on the up stroke? If so how is what happens to the pressure from the other piston? Would this effect how the oil leaks/jets to the high pressure areas?

Am I making any sense or have I missed the mark completely:confused:? I'm just trying to understand.

Please stop me when I start to sound like our crazy little Italian friend.:kidding:

Also no carbon tank :WTF:?:kidding:

duc slayer
11-19-2007, 06:01 PM
Please stop me when I start to sound like our crazy little Italian friend.

Bwahahahahaha :cheers:


also Amauri, who does the graphic's kit for you guys?? I'd like to get some swinger decals

PainterDude
11-19-2007, 06:38 PM
this is getting good....

amauri
11-19-2007, 07:08 PM
had a pool of water close to an inch deep after pressure washing my bike. For the record I use a low pressure pressure washer. This is my own fault and I need to pay more attention when washing it. Depending on the conditions I run the snorkel. It usually is in heavy rain or heavy snow.

When washing the bike, just pull the plug on the clear airbox drain hose and the water will drain out.


I was thinking about your crankcase pressure comments and I never thought of the negative pressure or suction. Is this done when the piston is on the up stroke? If so how is what happens to the pressure from the other piston? Would this effect how the oil leaks/jets to the high pressure areas?
Yes when the piston is on the up stroke it sucks air into the crankcase.
The two pistons go up & down together tough one is 77 ahead of the other and not enough to cancel each other out.


Also no carbon tank :WTF:?:kidding:
The bike was too light with the CF tank and small battery, we installed the std battery and stock plastic tank to get the bike just over the minimum weight the AMA imposed on us.

orangerider2
11-19-2007, 07:10 PM
Your knowledge of R&D work is of course limited, every manufacture does R&D work in this country, two years before the YZ400 was released it was R&Ded in this country and not by Yamaha the same holds true for every manufacture Honda, KTM, Suzuki ect. and i`am not talking race teams here, there are two other members here who do R&D work for other companies one has been doing R&D work on what will become an 09 bike for the last three years.

My personal life is just that personal, period and if that bothers you too bad.:cigar:

amauri
11-19-2007, 07:19 PM
My personal life is just that personal, period and if that bothers you too bad.:cigar:
The only thing that bothers me about you is the inaccurate info you post.

amauri
11-19-2007, 07:20 PM
also Amauri, who does the graphic's kit for you guys?? I'd like to get some swinger decals
ZLT does our graphics

RXV_Poor
11-19-2007, 07:25 PM
Originally Posted by RXV_Poor
I was thinking about your crankcase pressure comments and I never thought of the negative pressure or suction. Is this done when the piston is on the up stroke? If so how is what happens to the pressure from the other piston? Would this effect how the oil leaks/jets to the high pressure areas?

Wow, I should really reread my post before posting it.

Thanks amauri for helping me understand.

I can't verify Oranges claims but I do believe that this is partially true. I used to work in Edelbrock's shock R&D and I have personally witnessed that company doing work for and making parts for the big 3 auto manufactures. I don't see any reason why it would be any different for the motorcycle industry.

Why do they do this? My belief is that is cheaper, more efficient and unbiased. Cheaper because you can use the engineers to create new product or to fix found issues. More efficient and unbiased because there isn't a "stake" or "emotional" attachment if things go wrong. The most difficult thing in R&D is to accept the fact that you great idea that will fix everything just ain't worth a damn and should be thrown away.

amauri
11-19-2007, 07:40 PM
I can't verify Oranges claims but I do believe that this is partially true. I used to work in Edelbrock's shock R&D and I have personally witnessed that company doing work for and making parts for the big 3 auto manufactures. I don't see any reason why it would be any different for the motorcycle industry.
No doubt every manufacturer solicits outside help from industry experts to improve their product.
When that happens, that contractor is bound by confidentiality agreements to keep their mouths shut.

The fact that orange is posting about or even hinting of the R&D work he is doing jeopardizes that confidentiality, anyone who is serious about R&D does not talk about it in public.

The vent line re-route was a "field R&D" that Ed Lozano tested and found to be ineffective.

RXV_Poor
11-19-2007, 08:02 PM
In all fairness to Orange I don't remember him ever giving away any secrets. He's referred to past work and dealings but I don't recall any direct manufacturer secrets being given. He's made technical reference to race teams and stated that he's done R&D but he's always clammed up about any specific details about any manufacture.

Hell I'd like to sit back with a beverage of your choice and bench race with everyone one this RXV/SXV forum. To me this is a gear heads type of bike and it invokes passion like I haven't seen in awhile. Maybe the Berg forum is like this but I haven't had a reason to hang around.

I really miss doing this type of crap:( , Duc pass me a tissue and this is for our crazy little Italian friend:banana::banana::banana:.

orangerider2
11-19-2007, 08:37 PM
I try to guide people in the right direction and have only made others know of simple fixes. I own one of these bikes have spent hundreds of hours and thousands of miles riding one in every type of terrain thinkable, from 110 degrees in the desert to -10 degrees in the Sierra`s from goat trails to dry lake beds, from the Mojave to Baja, from riding in canyons at 2mph to the wide open in Baja at 115mph, a day`s ride for me can be a straight hours, i have encountered any thing that can happen on these machines.

Just because your a hired wrench on a team, does not mean that you know it all, but that is the image that your trying to project, my objective here is to try and help others enjoy their bikes and no more, no agenda on my part.

A famous writer once wrote Nobody Knows Anything.:cigar:

amauri
11-19-2007, 11:23 PM
Just because your a hired wrench on a team, does not mean that you know it all, but that is the image that your trying to project
That's a cheap shot and you know better than that.


my objective here is to try and help others enjoy their bikes and no more, no agenda on my part.
There's no doubt you have every intention of helping out, like everyone else here.

What I have a problem with is that you've got everyone convinced that this vent hose re-route is the solution and you are claiming that the race team bikes are using this same modification.
You've even claimed that the new bikes have incorporated this vent hose re-route from the factory.
Anyone who's seen the new 08 bikes both in the US and in Europe, knows that this is just not true.

orangerider2
11-20-2007, 12:38 AM
It is a solution to keeping oil out of the air box, thus avoiding oil contamination, this is all that i have ever claimed. Even an engine running perfect will blow a little oil out of the breather, myself i prefer an oil free air box. In the early 70`s every American car manufacture was running any and all vent hoses into air cleaners and carbs they soon found that it spelled death to a good running motor.

What is faxed to me (pictures) and what shows up on show room floors, yes can be different, In mid 2005 the KTM 250SXF which i saw and rode was totally different than what showed up on the show room floor a month later, so different that i was shocked, many who know KTM`s know what i`am referring to. So which ever way it shows up is not important to me, what is important is that improvements have been implemented.:cigar:

PainterDude
11-20-2007, 01:23 AM
More.....More.......

tmenduro
11-20-2007, 09:53 AM
To me this is a gear heads type of bike and it invokes passion like I haven't seen in awhile. Maybe the Berg forum is like this but I haven't had a reason to hang around.


The Aprilia forum does remind me of the Husaberg forum of about 2002 thru 2004 when the public was dealing with the 2001/2002 motor woes. The same passion for the performance is here, and the same anger at the reliability / workmanship is here. The Hbg didn't really seem to have a design flaw, so much as it seemed to suffer from quality control of manufactured parts and assembly. A hand-built Hbg motor would stay together, I see the same situation here. Also, some very knowledgable and vocal members offer lots of help here to frustrated owners. Since the mfg of Hbg bikes moved to Austria, the Hbg forum has got pretty boring because there really is nothing to complain about, I hope the same happens here. Until then, I'll keep lurking waiting for the moment to pull the trigger and get an ape twin.

amauri
11-20-2007, 10:00 AM
In the early 70`s every American car manufacture was running any and all vent hoses into air cleaners and carbs they soon found that it spelled death to a good running motor.
Some more of your inaccurate claims, "death to a good running motor" you've got to be kidding.
Every car manufacturer is still running the crankcase vent into the intake, its part of the emissions control.
My 1970 Mustang is still on the original motor with 200+ k miles, the crankcase vent is still in the air cleaner.


What is faxed to me (pictures) and what shows up on show room floors, yes can be different, In mid 2005 the KTM 250SXF which i saw and rode was totally different than what showed up on the show room floor a month later, so different that i was shocked, many who know KTM`s know what i`am referring to. So which ever way it shows up is not important to me, what is important is that improvements have been implemented.:cigar:
A perfect example of what I've been trying to say.
You post about these changes without confirming that it is true or will ever be incorporated on a production bike.

Don't post about things that are just hearsay and make it sound like its a confirmed fact.

RXV_Poor
11-20-2007, 10:48 AM
Some more of your inaccurate claims, "death to a good running motor" you've got to be kidding.
Every car manufacturer is still running the crankcase vent into the intake, its part of the emissions control.
My 1970 Mustang is still on the original motor with 200+ k miles, the crankcase vent is still in the air cleaner.

Now this is something I can talk about. I don't profess to be a motor expert but I do understand how a motor works and I do not believe the theory that "A motor is a motor". The fact that every manufacture does doesn't mean it's right it mean that some lawyers somewhere voted and approved it.

I've built small block carb Fords with 400 crank HP that blew lower emissions than a new fuel injected small blocks. It did not have a vent hose to the air filter. To get them through we made custom breather caps that appeared to vent to the carb but actually vent to the outside.

Oil down the intake is only good for 2 strokes and companies are getting from that concept because of emissions. In my opinion oil down the intake track is just a bad idea.

Now to the important part lets see the pick of the 70 stang.

amauri
11-20-2007, 11:27 AM
No doubt that racecar motors vent the crankcase to the atmosphere.
Every smog legal vehicle on the road today vents the crankcase to the air cleaner and manifold, its required by smog regulations.

Saying that this is "death to a good running motor" is simply not true and irresponsible.

duc slayer
11-20-2007, 11:40 AM
pic's :plus:

I must admit I have a love affair (one way i'm afraid) with mustangs and I would love to see a 200,000 mile'r

amauri
11-20-2007, 12:17 PM
That Mustang was my first car, I got it in my Jr. year in HS.
I kept it for 15 years and sold it to my nephew who still drives it every day.
I recently helped him do a ring and valve job on it.

RXV_Poor
11-20-2007, 12:26 PM
Sold it:eek:? Your killing me here. I had to sell my 64 1/2 years ago :bangwall: and I still miss it:whiner:. I was trying to live vicariously through you.:bond:

amauri
11-20-2007, 12:31 PM
Sold it:eek:? Your killing me here. I had to sell my 64 1/2 years ago :bangwall: and I still miss it:whiner:. I was trying to live vicariously through you.:bond:
Tha't OK, I have a 69 Boss 302 that I've been restoring back to original shape.
I have all the pieces, including a Shaker Hood, original exhaust, Drag Pak oil cooler, Rev limiter, Holley 780 carb, dual point distributor, all the original smog, etc...
I'm trying to make it 100% correct, now I just have to find time to put it all together

duc slayer
11-20-2007, 12:34 PM
a good friend of min just sold his 69 mach (very rough) for $27K and the best part being he traded his 93 gt (mint 30k mi, valued at $10k) straight up for the 69 lucky prick

RXV_Poor
11-20-2007, 12:41 PM
Tha't OK, I have a 69 Boss 302 that I've been restoring back to original shape.
I have all the pieces, including a Shaker Hood, original exhaust, Drag Pak oil cooler, Rev limiter, Holley 780 carb, dual point distributor, all the original smog, etc...
I'm trying to make it 100% correct, now I just have to find time to put it all together

Sweet ride and good luck with it. Even if I had and the cash to build it the way I wanted, I still wouldn't have the time.