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View Full Version : How is a Dealer Paid for Warranty Work?



Jim Hubert
11-15-2007, 11:54 AM
With all this talk of finding a knowledgeable Aprilia dealer, I gather that there are only a handful of them in the U.S.

How do the knowledgeable ones feel about doing warranty repairs on the bikes sold by the un-knowledgeable ones?

It seems to me that flat-rate for a warranty repair might not come anywhere near covering the dealer's true cost.

duc slayer
11-15-2007, 12:24 PM
from Aprilia.............they don't :D

a good portion of the dealers that dropped the line were/are claiming they never got paid. is it true?? No way for me to know just what people were/are claiming

Jim Hubert
11-15-2007, 12:30 PM
One of the dealers in my state (an old well-establish multi-line dealership) dropped Aprilia a couple of years ago. They continue to carry on with their other lines, however.

EuroMoto
11-15-2007, 01:23 PM
It is very difficult to do the warrenty work with in the time paid by Aprilia. Example: complete engine tear down and rebuilt for an SXV is 4.7 hours if i remember correctly. Which included taking the motor out of the frame and putting it back and test drive to ensure proper function. It seems the Italian mechanic are vastly superior to North American ones or the Aprilia bean counters are not very generous, you make your choice.

I have always gotten paid for the work we did i the 4 years we have been a dealership...

Pascal

duc slayer
11-15-2007, 01:35 PM
Euro, can I get direction's to your shop?? I'm down in plattsburgh and like to check out all of the local shops

Sonny_TSBR
11-15-2007, 01:50 PM
They pay a set or cut rate..

At a HUGE discount...

Lets say YOU pay 65 dollars an hour
Aprilia's shop rates might be below 20 bux and hour to re-emburse

Jim Hubert
11-15-2007, 02:27 PM
Let me see if I've got this right...

No dealer *wants* to perform warranty work -- but they accept it as a cost of doing business.

They would prefer to minimize their exposure by not taking on another dealership's problems.

There is going to be some statistical function that relates the number of bikes sold to the number of warranty claims.

Some bikes will be more reliable than others.

All the problems with the SXV/RXV has got to be costing the dealers plenty.

When a dealer places orders for '08 bikes, this must be taken into account.

Tdawg
11-15-2007, 02:33 PM
Lets say YOU pay 65 dollars an hour
Aprilia's shop rates might be below 20 bux and hour to re-emburse

IIRC when the swingarms were recalled on the RSV's it was said that aprilia paid for the warranty work but it was less than the actual time required to do the work. (some have been known to tip their wrenches)

Ed / AF1 Racing
11-15-2007, 02:59 PM
they pay our regular shop rate of $75/hr, and also more than dealer cost on parts....varies by states, some states require the manuf to pay full retail on the parts.

in the beginning we werent getting paid either, their warranty system is VERY complicated. Now that we are very diligent in following the procedure EXACTLY, we are getting the credits to our account.....still takes a while, and takes lots of follow through, but it works.

to get paid properly, you also need to claim EVERY single part, every hose clamp, every drop of oil, and every procedure you performed including the diagnostic time.

Jim Hubert
11-15-2007, 04:42 PM
They pay a set or cut rate..

At a HUGE discount...

Lets say YOU pay 65 dollars an hour
Aprilia's shop rates might be below 20 bux and hour to re-emburse

Trying to reconcile this statement with what Ed and Pascal (thanks guys!) said...

I assume it means that Aprilia pays the dealer's normal labor rate for the flat-rate repair time. So, if Aprilia thinks flat-rate for an engine overhaul is 4.7 hours, and it actually takes 18.8 hours, the dealer is only making 1/4 of their normal labor rate (not counting all the paperwork).

Micah / AF1 Racing
11-15-2007, 05:27 PM
As a dealer I offer this:

Do I LOOK FORWARD to replacing engines under warranty? NO, whether we sold the bike or not. At least if we were the selling dealer I know a little bit more about the history of the bike and such and sometimes that helps. That said, for the foreseeable future I will be replacing on average one engine a week for many months to come. I have two bikes in the back waiting for engines right now and delivered two in the last two weeks that were engine replacements. We sold three of those bikes.

I have bikes shipped in from all over the USA for engine service and replacement. I will be 100% honest here. You get paid no where near the time it takes to do the job. I do not charge the customer extra for this. The brutal truth is that it takes about 8 hours of labor to take a blown up SXV complete on the bench, uncrate new engine, remove old engine, install new engine, recrate old engine, set coolant, oil, ecu, makes everything good again. I am not all that fast, nor do I claim to be. I plan on each swap taking a day. Aprilia pays about 3.5 hours for this day. The customer gets stuck with the charge for a chain and front sprocket (the front will never come easily off the shaft), coolant, hose clamps, tranny oil, exhaust gaskets, engine oil and such. This normally adds up to about $300 in charges for the customer.

Aprilia "pays" warranty by debiting the amount from your "dealer/customer" account. You will never see a check come from Aprilia for warranty but they do deduct the amount from what we as a dealer "owe" them for parts and tooling and bikes and such.

Warranty work sucks, bottom line. No dealer or tech in his right mind "wants" to do warranty work. The SXV/RXV thing has been very hard on me as a technician because it has consumed countless hours I could be doing something else that pays a hell of a lot better or is a hell of a lot more fun, like putting a turbocharger on a Piaggio MP3. I just take it as a "cost of doing business" and know in my heart that I am building good Karma for the afterlife or whatever...there just has to be an upside? NO brand or manufacturer that I have ever worked with has had satisfactory warranty pay to justify the time and effort you put forth.

I always just try to place myself in the customer's shoes. If I owned an SXV that I bought with my own money, and it was blown to bits, I would love to have someone help where they can. Like I said before...here is to hoping for good Karma!

Aprilia also pays the cost of the replacement part like the engine for instance in many SXV 5.5 cases. They do normally pay a little more than "dealer cost" on the part so this helps offset the loss a little.

BTW, I NEVER decline free money for doing warranty jobs...FYI

OZRS
11-15-2007, 05:47 PM
It is very difficult to do the warrenty work with in the time paid by Aprilia. Example: complete engine tear down and rebuilt for an SXV is 4.7 hours if i remember correctly. Which included taking the motor out of the frame and putting it back and test drive to ensure proper function. It seems the Italian mechanic are vastly superior to North American ones or the Aprilia bean counters are not very generous, you make your choice.

I have always gotten paid for the work we did i the 4 years we have been a dealership...

Pascal

This is pretty much what my dealer told me. When i had the cams & buckets replaced they said Aprilia pay their shop rate but allow only 3 hours to take the engine out replace the cams, re-instate it and test ride etc. Not very generous sounds like a bit of an understatement to me!!!!!!!!

Also, they dropped the Aprilia dealership after i brought the bike. I have continued to get the bike serviced their and their support and tech work has been brilliant.

EuroMoto
11-15-2007, 06:12 PM
Aprilia also pays the cost of the replacement part like the engine for instance in many SXV 5.5 cases. They do normally pay a little more than "dealer cost" on the part so this helps offset the loss a little.

BTW, I NEVER decline free money for doing warranty jobs...FYI

Darn, us Canadian dealer are getting cost of parts only on our credits...

Pascal

Shaneless plug coming in 1, 2, 3....
direction to our shop are on the website... www.euromoto.ca

duc slayer
11-15-2007, 06:25 PM
sweet so your just a little bit of papineau (sp) I will have to stop in next time I'm in the neighborhood

mikeyyc
11-15-2007, 06:27 PM
Ok, I just want the turbo MP3, and a trackday.

duc slayer
11-15-2007, 06:34 PM
but back onto the topic warranty work can be a pain the balls to get paid ans other times it's easy as pie. Husqvarana power equipment (no bikes unfortunately) has to be the easiest we've ever dealt with They have never questioned us 1 single time, always get paid/credited in a very fashionable time On the other end of the spectrum is Shark pressure washers (great product, fuck the company right in their arse....no lube) Up until last month we had been fighting with them for $8k in warranty work (maybe not alot to some, but HUGE to us) owed to us for 10 months. After numerous emails/phone conversations (easily 50) with everyone from the pion's right up to the VP of the company and still no action what so ever. Finally we got our parent company Tru Value/ Tru Serv to withhold a payment check to Shark (we buy through TV, then they bill us) whick was in the 6 figure range. We had our reimbursment $$$ in days. Boy I love having the buying power of a huge company like Tru Value behind us

ckruzel
11-15-2007, 07:50 PM
They pay a set or cut rate..

At a HUGE discount...

Lets say YOU pay 65 dollars an hour
Aprilia's shop rates might be below 20 bux and hour to re-emburse

not true, its alot like car dealerships and warranty, however warranty flat rate times are derrived from a technician being timed over various repairs, what they don't tell you are all the parts are laid out in front of them and all the tools that they will need, and typically there are no rusted, siezed or broken bolts to worry about as its new equipment, typially warranty labor rates are derrived from your customer pay labor rates however if you do low end stuff like oil changes, tire mounting at reduced rates it can affect your warranty labor rate, however you can apply for labor rate increases but i know the auto mfg's want to see random repair orders to see what you are charging customers. also they don't care what you actually pay your techs a shop can pay a technican 30 hours or a straight salery to rebuild a motor, its just they are paying you a set amount (flat rate) based off the hours and your labor rate, not sure how bike dealers are but car dealers don't get any money for warranty jobs, they credit your open parts account and the business office will split it back to the service department but no money actually comes in

not sure how bike dealers are but obselecent parts are harder and harder to return anymore with car mfg's its gotten to the point that before i can order a part i have to have a date approx 2-3 days out for the part to be installed (i can check chryslers online to see if the pdc has it in stock in ny) or if its a customer pay part it has to be paid in full at the time of ordering, lots of paperwork but its come down to this

every now and then a tech in my shop will subit a time study on a flat rate time, everynow and then the time is upped

i remember one chrysler instructor at school commented on a very time consuming wiring problem and when asked about excessive straight time he said hell we can build a car in xx hours, why would we pay you to fix it for more than that

orangerider2
11-15-2007, 08:33 PM
Sometimes a flat rate can be your friend and other times not. A couple months ago i had R&D frames built, cost for each frame was $2,000.00, at the same time i went to my machine shop and had some intakes built for the throttle bodies, cost was $200.00, but only because i have had an agreement with the shop for set prices on certain items, otherwise those intakes would have cost me $2,000.00, they had put in 12hrs making those intakes. Sometimes they win and other times i do.:cigar:

Sonny_TSBR
11-15-2007, 10:05 PM
not true, its alot like car dealerships and warranty, however warranty flat rate times are derrived from a technician being timed over various repairs, what they don't tell you are all the parts are laid out in front of them and all the tools that they will need, and typically there are no rusted, siezed or broken bolts to worry about as its new equipment, typially warranty labor rates are derrived from your customer pay labor rates however if you do low end stuff like oil changes, tire mounting at reduced rates it can affect your warranty labor rate, however you can apply for labor rate increases but i know the auto mfg's want to see random repair orders to see what you are charging customers. also they don't care what you actually pay your techs a shop can pay a technican 30 hours or a straight salery to rebuild a motor, its just they are paying you a set amount (flat rate) based off the hours and your labor rate, not sure how bike dealers are but car dealers don't get any money for warranty jobs, they credit your open parts account and the business office will split it back to the service department but no money actually comes in

not sure how bike dealers are but obselecent parts are harder and harder to return anymore with car mfg's its gotten to the point that before i can order a part i have to have a date approx 2-3 days out for the part to be installed (i can check chryslers online to see if the pdc has it in stock in ny) or if its a customer pay part it has to be paid in full at the time of ordering, lots of paperwork but its come down to this

every now and then a tech in my shop will subit a time study on a flat rate time, everynow and then the time is upped

i remember one chrysler instructor at school commented on a very time consuming wiring problem and when asked about excessive straight time he said hell we can build a car in xx hours, why would we pay you to fix it for more than that

I was flat out told that suzuki doesn't pay full shop rates to dealers...

( per hour labor rates I mean of course )

slingshotcy
11-16-2007, 12:23 PM
As a dealer I offer this:

Do I LOOK FORWARD to replacing engines under warranty? NO, whether we sold the bike or not. At least if we were the selling dealer I know a little bit more about the history of the bike and such and sometimes that helps. That said, for the foreseeable future I will be replacing on average one engine a week for many months to come. I have two bikes in the back waiting for engines right now and delivered two in the last two weeks that were engine replacements. We sold three of those bikes.

I have bikes shipped in from all over the USA for engine service and replacement. I will be 100% honest here. You get paid no where near the time it takes to do the job. I do not charge the customer extra for this. The brutal truth is that it takes about 8 hours of labor to take a blown up SXV complete on the bench, uncrate new engine, remove old engine, install new engine, recrate old engine, set coolant, oil, ecu, makes everything good again. I am not all that fast, nor do I claim to be. I plan on each swap taking a day. Aprilia pays about 3.5 hours for this day. The customer gets stuck with the charge for a chain and front sprocket (the front will never come easily off the shaft), coolant, hose clamps, tranny oil, exhaust gaskets, engine oil and such. This normally adds up to about $300 in charges for the customer.

Aprilia "pays" warranty by debiting the amount from your "dealer/customer" account. You will never see a check come from Aprilia for warranty but they do deduct the amount from what we as a dealer "owe" them for parts and tooling and bikes and such.

Warranty work sucks, bottom line. No dealer or tech in his right mind "wants" to do warranty work. The SXV/RXV thing has been very hard on me as a technician because it has consumed countless hours I could be doing something else that pays a hell of a lot better or is a hell of a lot more fun, like putting a turbocharger on a Piaggio MP3. I just take it as a "cost of doing business" and know in my heart that I am building good Karma for the afterlife or whatever...there just has to be an upside? NO brand or manufacturer that I have ever worked with has had satisfactory warranty pay to justify the time and effort you put forth.

I always just try to place myself in the customer's shoes. If I owned an SXV that I bought with my own money, and it was blown to bits, I would love to have someone help where they can. Like I said before...here is to hoping for good Karma!

Aprilia also pays the cost of the replacement part like the engine for instance in many SXV 5.5 cases. They do normally pay a little more than "dealer cost" on the part so this helps offset the loss a little.

BTW, I NEVER decline free money for doing warranty jobs...FYI

Micah,

Those engine replacements you mentioned, may i ask what was the case-reason Aprilia send them over to you under warranty ?

Thanks