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oclv
11-09-2003, 11:40 AM
i went back to an issue in motorcycle consumer news and re read the article on the tuono vs triumph speed tripple. the triumph smoked the tuono in every catagory except one. whats up with that? those guys are supposed to be non biased. oclv

Ricky J
11-09-2003, 12:15 PM
This is the 100% truth: everybody I know who's owned Triumph triples, a half dozen by my counting (including me), has had serious reliability issues with it. I'm talking about stuff that keeps the bike from being ridden at all, and often times there are either repeat occurrences or yet another major malfunction that puts it back in the shop for a lengthy stay. To me there's something more to this than just statistical aberration...

Mazza
11-09-2003, 12:31 PM
Hmmm....well. I talked to Dave Searle about that story recently. Seems the test Tuono was delivered with some serious setup issues, including a rear brake that came adrift and put big fear into one of the riders. That can certainly give you a bad first impression of the bike--even if it's not the bike's fault.

Also--and I make this comment from observation and supposition rather than hard evidence--I think the MCN (US) guys are more conservative riders, much more practial-minded than many in moto journalism. I think it's also true that the Speed 3 feels more accessible at an easier pace than the Tuono, which really needs (and wants) to be ridden hard. Next, the period of a road test is seldom long enough to uncover reliability issues. Heck, even the semi-long-term relationship I had with a pink Speed 3 (i.e., The Torpedo) was a good one, with no major glitches. If you're unused to the Aprilia engine's character, it can seem a tad unpolished next to the excellent Triumph triple. And the Tuono's firmer suspension will exact a toll on highways for its much better backroad composure--it's all a compromise.

I've ridden the Speed 3 a lot and have more than 7000 miles on various Tuonos and the plain truth is that the Aprilia kicks Triumph butt. Case closed.

--Marc @ Motorcyclist

Tripdog
11-10-2003, 08:31 PM
They seem to be very unbiased unless a Triumph is in the test. I have ridden both--quite a bit, and own a Tuono without even the slightest regret.
Trip

oclv
11-10-2003, 09:19 PM
don't get me wrong, i am in no way considering the speed tripple or any other bike triumph makes. i just thought it was wierd that they rated the speed tripple better than the Tuono in almost all the categories. thanks for the feedback. oclv

Jony2Stones
11-10-2003, 10:13 PM
I've put tons of miles on both, so let me give you my easily disproved feeling.

Brakes: We could call it even

Suspension: No doubt the Tuono

Ergos: Personal preference, but for hard riding the SP3's bar set up is a little better for feedback, but overall the tuonos' superior handling makes the call a close one. Seating/pegs are similar both comfy enough.

Chasis (sp): Tuono, the SP3 while strong doesnt feel as rigid as the Tuonos'

Motor: Wurring 3 or thumpin 2.....hmmm I'd go with the 2 for reasons listed below.
Both motors offer a decent stock midrange, both make good power when lightly tuned (pipe, chip/tune).

However, the Tuono has a large aftermarket support, something that the SP3 doesnot.


Stock to stock it comes down to the rider, well it always comes down to the rider regardless of the bikes. I'd have to say, I'm much faster on the Tuono..the feedback, and abilities of the entire setup make the bike handle any curve/lean-angle I throw at it. I'm always aware of whats' going on, something that is kinda vague on the SP3.

cornercarver
11-10-2003, 10:46 PM
I have 6000 miles on an '01 S3 (older, slightly weaker motor) and 9,000 miles on a Tuono and I can't think of a single category where the S3 trumps the Tuono. chassis, motor, brakes, weight, comfort, fun,... The Triumph does have a working rear brake, but other than that, its no contest. I had no reliability probs with my S3 whatsoever, I should add. I also had front and rear suspension rebuilt, and even so, the Tuono comes up ahead, even without the Ohlins valves and Penske rear I have on there now.

--sam

Mazza
11-10-2003, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by cornercarver
The Triumph does have a working rear brake, but other than that, its no contest.

Interesting. In my experience, the Tuono has more rear brake than the Triumph. More setup issues?

cornercarver
11-11-2003, 01:47 AM
Originally posted by Mazza
Interesting. In my experience, the Tuono has more rear brake than the Triumph. More setup issues?

Within 1000 miles, the Tuono rear brake disappears entirely without incessant bleeding. Same with every Mille ever made. Within a week of being bled, my bike will coast backwards on a SF hill even if I am literally standing on the rear brake pedal. The S3 rear brake was always able to actually exert a decellerating force and keep the bike from rolling on a hill.

--sam

Mazza
11-11-2003, 02:19 AM
Originally posted by cornercarver
Within 1000 miles, the Tuono rear brake disappears entirely without incessant bleeding. Same with every Mille ever made.

Interesting. 6500 miles on the Tuono, rear brake never touched. (Okay, pads given a quick look-see when the tires are changed.) No problems, plenty of power. Really.

--Marc

cornercarver
11-11-2003, 02:31 AM
Originally posted by Mazza
Interesting. 6500 miles on the Tuono, rear brake never touched. (Okay, pads given a quick look-see when the tires are changed.) No problems, plenty of power. Really.

--Marc

you are one of the few. My first miklle had a good rear brake, too, but huge numbers of people have rear brakes that work more like my Tuono. Something leaks, and when combined with the heat of the exhaust so near the brake lines and a master cylinder that is level with the caliper, it leads to constant problems with air in the line. It is a VERY commn problem.

DeTuono
11-11-2003, 05:07 AM
I had mine bled a few thousand kays ago. Since then it's been fine.

Nick :aussie:

pan
11-11-2003, 07:37 AM
no problems with my rear brake in 9000 km. In fact, it is too strong and will lock up the rear in no time

Ted in Evanston
11-11-2003, 07:56 AM
Hey Marc:
Not to highjack this thread, but seeing that you've had both the s3 and now the Tuono as long term test bikes, it would be interesting to see you guys do some of the common mods that the RSV / Tuono community here would emplore you to perform to up the "smiles per gallon" factor.
As I recall you lavished some attention on the S3. The poor Tuono after 4000 miles only gets a ZG windscreen and a set of Sportecs? Ya gotta at least de restrict the airbox and ditch the stock slipon!:peace:

Mazza
11-11-2003, 10:20 AM
Mods are in progress. I'd been keeping it stock because a big naked story had been planned, then moved (or abandoned, then reconsidered, then moved....sigh) until it finally got done in late Oct.

NOW...I can start to play.

So far the Tuono has got a PCIII. I've ordered up the Akra full dual system and will fully de-restrict the thing soon. In fact, I pulled the airbox restrictor as a test early on, and there was little or no difference on the dyno. There may be a greater change with the full exhaust.

Then I'll start on the suspension.

--Marc

Ted in Evanston
11-11-2003, 10:24 AM
:banana: Can't wait to see those writeups! :banana: :banana:

Mazza
11-11-2003, 10:37 AM
Oh, I did try Metzeler's new Z6 sport-touring tire on the Tuono. It's amazingly good, although not the RIGHT tire for the Tuono. (To Metzeler's credit, it had a Tuono as one of the demo bikes along with the usual smattering of VFRs and FJRs.)

I really liked the Sportecs and I'll probably put some street miles on a set of Supercorsas before a track day this month. The rear Sportec lasted 2500 miles, but they were fun miles. I'll be back on that tire, I'm sure.

--Marc (resisting the dancing bananas)

cornercarver
11-11-2003, 01:15 PM
Marc,

When you pulled the airbox resitrictor, did you also remove the restrictor from inside the exahust? If not, that would explain why you didn't see any improvement. Mine gained 7 hp at the top end on the same dynojet dyno (different days) and a nice boost in the midrange.

--sam

Mazza
11-11-2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by cornercarver
did you also remove the restrictor from inside the exahust?

No. IIRC, the cone is now welded in. The last Mille we "de restricted" was a real bear. Knowing a slip-on or aftermarket setup was in the cards, I never bothered with the exhaust side.

--Marc

Kid Thunder
11-11-2003, 03:33 PM
Marc,
Did you guys try a 180 rear tire in place of the 190. If so, how did you like it.

Don

Mazza
11-11-2003, 03:40 PM
I like the 180 a lot. Had a 190 on the back in the original D207RR, Diablo and Sportec, and didn't object to any of them. (Well, I wasn't in love with the Dunlops...) But the 180 in the new Metz Z6 feels quite nice, with slightly lighter steering. Remember, too, that I'm running four lines down in the front -- three scribe marks on the fork legs showing -- and minimum ride height on the stock shock.

This week, I'm going to spoon on a set of Supercorsas with a 180 rear, and that will be a more accurate indicator of how it likes that size. Of course, the Tuono R we had came with a 180 and no one complained.

Marc

cornercarver
11-11-2003, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by Mazza
No. IIRC, the cone is now welded in. The last Mille we "de restricted" was a real bear. Knowing a slip-on or aftermarket setup was in the cards, I never bothered with the exhaust side.

--Marc

That's defniitely true (although my '00 and '02 aprilias had welded cones, too). Stop by a local aprilia dealer. Every one I've ever been to has a stash of stock pipes from installing slip-ons, and at least half of them have been derestricted by their owner. All 3 of my aprilias had pipes swapped out for a previously derestricted pipe at no cost at a dealer. It makes a world of difference to the bike. If you think it is fun now, 5 minutes with an allen wrench and a new pipe will make it much more so, although you will need the appropriate chip ($70) or PC map. There is no question that the bike is meant to be run derestricted, and should be reviewed as such, in my opinion. Testing it against other bikes that don't come in a restricted form for european and japanese markets puts it at a disadvantage compared to what it is capable of.

It also sounds so much better without the cone in the pipe. I used to get complements on the sound of the stock pipe on my Tuono.

--sam

Mazza
11-11-2003, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by cornercarver
There is no question that the bike is meant to be run derestricted, and should be reviewed as such, in my opinion. Testing it against other bikes that don't come in a restricted form for european and japanese markets puts it at a disadvantage compared to what it is capable of.

Hmmm. We used to have this huge argument at the magazine whenever an Aprilia would come through. One side would offer your view, which is supportable from the consumer's side because, in essence, the mods are free. But to be totally fair, we have to evaluate bikes as they come to us. If we derestrict an Aprilia, should we also put a new map in a Honda or change the fork springs on a Yamaha?

I think that reviewing a bike as delievered is critical because that's how the consumers will get the bike as well. Not all of them are savvy enough to derestrict an Aprilia or know to alter a ZX-6R's chassis geometry to unlock the fine handling bike that's in there. If simple mods will improve the bike, I'm all for talking about them but I don't think the bike's tested performance should benefit from the mods.

In any event, the issue is largely moot as Aprilia gets its stuff more and more together. Used to be derestricting a Mille netted, what?, 15 hp? And cutting the wire made it run really well, as opposed to like, um, crap? These days they're quite good right off the boat.

--Marc

PaulTuono
11-11-2003, 04:02 PM
I traded a '99 Speed Triple in for my Tuono this year. I loved the Triumph but I had reliability issues (coils going, not charging). I had it for 2 years and did 12K miles,

The Tuono is better built , the attention to detail is very good and the engine is more exciting (for me anyway). The Triumph was easier to ride (Tuono is my first V2) and better in town but the way the Tuono delivers power makes up for that. I was pleaseantly suprised by the practicality of the Tuono, good underseat storage, clock, voltmeter, good riding position, crash bungs and excellent lights, much more practical than the Triumph.

The Tuono chassis, brakes and suspension are in a differrent class, although the latest S3 may have improved on the 99 model.

The only gripe I have is with the cold starting switch, why should you need that on a FI bike?

bob of fl
11-12-2003, 05:55 PM
Marc,

Since you get the parts for free what about coaxing Aprilia into sending over 57mm TBs and Carbon Airbox to go with your exhaust then dyno for us.

I would like to see what that adds real world as everyone is all over the place with hp #s