Is anyone seriously interested in a 320mm big brake kit?

[snadam]

That's correct, I have not created brackets yet. I am still working on machine fixturing and the machining process. I need to cut machine time down and reduce the number of machining steps if I hope to get these done at a tolerable cost.

I assure you, this is on my mind from morning to night and I'll let you know when progress is made.

Adam

[snadam]

Yesterday was full of fun. At this point in the project I'm still evaluating different rotor designs. The first prototype set arrived from the shop yesterday. I didn't spend much time with them, just enough to take some measurements and quickly test fit one to a spare wheel. Next I moved on to a box that's been sitting on the kitchen table for a week. Thanks to Mike (the fixer) I now have in hand all the brake calipers I need for the project!










With all the calipers in hand I can now continue working on the bracket. The design shown earlier in this thread is close to what the final product will look like but changes will be made to deal with clearance issues. Tweaks to reduce machining time will also be needed.

Two pad units shown (top) / four pad unit shown (bottom center)


Two pad (left) / four pad (right)


As you can see the four pad units are not as thick as the two pad units


The differences don't end at the thickness...


It has been relatively hot here lately which makes spending time in the garage less than appealing. Hopefully, I can get out there tonight to do some more work.

Adam

[the_toe_cutter]

Your kicking ass and taking names Snadam. I like the design of the discs, your mounting holes must surely be a better design than the oem disc, i like it, looks more simple, sturdy'er!
How does the grade of steel compare to higher ductile aftermarket like ap and some ebc products?
Never knew the 4 pad units were thinner in section, handy for our application and would require less offset, keeping the forces closer to the mounts. If only the pads were cheaper...
All this must be costing you, id happily commit to purchasing brackets to fit either of the above calipers and id pay pal you in advance, would help in spreading the costs.
Let me know and keep up the good work!

[Precis]

At the risk of being called a nay-sayer: I wonder what you're aiming to achieve with all this fascinating (and obviously expensive) furckling about?
This week I fitted new ABE rotors and a set of EBC pads, took a slowish ride to bed them in, and on the way home at about 60km, did a couple of dummy emergency stops.

The 'snatch 'n grab' saw my RR forks compress lots and the rear wheel probably came off the ground (note to self: sit forward and grip the tank much harder!), while the 'progressive squeeze' eventually locked up the front tyre and left a black stripe a few feet long.
FWIW, I also have Spiegler braided lines.

This tells me that the standard system has more than adequate braking ability for use on a tarred road, and isn't so sudden and abrupt that it becomes a liability on a dirt road.

Fitting 4 pad calipers will achieve what, exactly?
As TC has noted, the 4-pads cost more to replace and until you posted these excellent pictures, I for one would have been hard-pushed to tell the difference between 2's and 4's when mounted on a bike.

I'm watching your efforts with interest, as I love folk improving their bikes - but call me a cynic, I'm unconvinced your herculean efforts will provide a quantum leap in performance.
Happy to be proved wrong though...

[the_toe_cutter]

I ride hard and id like better brakes, with better feel and plan on having them.
Fit pure road rubber and ride hard and you meet the limits of the brakes QUICKLY. Fit intiminators and realise the new potentail to handle and brake harder still and find the limits even quicker....
i applaud Snadam as hes doing not talking and yes these mods will result in better brakes. Your never going to be able to pin the front with the capos 19 incher but you will improve it, especially if ride the ROAD briskly.

[Precis]

I've just taken off a set of road tyres - and I fitted adjustable RR forks before the intiminators became available because the stock fork is so poor; I fitted the Spieglers looking for more immediate brakes - which is what I got.
And having grounded the mountings for the centre-stand the day after I fitted it, I take it off on days when I'm not going to need it.
As for riding hard, well, that's questionable - having raced 250cc GP bikes, I tend to carry a lot of corner speed - as the saying goes "Brakes just slow you down" and I look a long way down the road so I don't need to brake hard, or suddenly, both of which will spoil a line: slow in, fast out.
I guess it comes to how and where you ride - the Capo does get used on dirt roads, where you want some progressivity; I have a road bike, and a track bike - where the brakes do get a work-out, but instead of more brakes, I chose to cut weight.
And in my racing carerr - edurance and sprints, cars and bikes - now I think of it, I was usually the one who used the least fuel and suffered the least tyre degradation and brake wear with consistent lap-times.
Like I said, I'm watching Adam's project with interest and also applaud his efforts; with his scientific approach, I have no doubt he'll fit a deccelarometer before and after the conversion to measure the improvement he achieves. The results will be very interesting.

[the_toe_cutter]

Not being a ex gp 250 rider who regurally grinds centre stand mountings i need to slow down for some corners. Better brakes will make me faster safer.
Id imagine the better performance from the lines you fitted were from the subsequent flush of fresh fluid and bleed. Capo lines are same as what i had on my mille and falco and i had no improvement in changing to braided. Oe 'rubber' lines are actually freudenberg and compoarable to braided in performance from my direct experience.

[snadam]

TTC,
The new discs are made from 420 stainless steel which is a commonly used SS alloy for brake rotors. Just google 420 stainless and you'll find more info than you can shake a stick at. The 420 has been hardened to a Rockwell hardness of 32 to 40 on the C scale which puts it in the 302 to 375 range on the Brinell scale.

Precise,
This project started in motion a long time ago and the main goal has always been for me to gain a better hands-on understanding of machining so that I don't have to rely on others to make widgets when I want them. You say that the brakes are capable of locking the front wheel and I don't dispute that. However, simply having the ability to lock the front wheel is different than having precise control over the brakes. I don't like the 'feel' of the Brembo calipers found on the Capo and I'm having a hell of a fun time doing something about it. For me this is a big part of why I like motorcycles, cars, computers, and machines in general, I can modify them.

General update,
The design of the bracket is done, the design of the fixture plates is complete, and I ordered materials this morning. I plan to cut as much as I can manually because I enjoy it and it doesn't cost as much as CNC time.

The bracket that works with both the 2 pad 4 piston and 4 pad 4 piston calipers found on the Mile, Ducatis, Falco, Futura, etc...


This is an assembly used to plan the first machining step. Alignment pins and bolts are not represented. The first step will take care of drilling, pocketing, and a partial depth rough cut profile pass.


Once flipped and secured along with spacers that fit in the area that was pocketed in step one the final pocket and profile cuts will be done.


The brackets (at least the first set) will be made from 7075 T351 which is stupid strong but doesn't hold up well to the elements. Therefore, the parts will need to be anodized and I'm trying to decide if I send them out or if I'll build my own anodizing station.

Adam

[the_toe_cutter]

Excellent progress Snadam. Im giving serious consideration to kidnapping and chaining you to my capo and demanding you modify it to my liking
Wont the two pad caliper require a different offset on the bracket to the 4 pad caliper due to differing thickness? Or is the distance from mounting face to centre of caliper the same on both? If so i get how one bracket does both.
Also, your dimesions for the brackets, are they mocked up from the 17 incher in your pic in or the capos oem 19"er? Spokes will have different clearence on both at a guess.
Whatya reckon on the standard mc with either the above calipers? From reading amuri's and others posts it should be grand. Sure its the same as on the futura...
Keep fighting the good fight!

[AGENT]

honestly i admire your work! congratulations!!

I for my self of course have to admit that 320mm disks is a bit exaggerating but that has to to with each rider's needs.

I personally would very much like to see a bracket able to fit a two piston caliper for the rear brake...i think it will be very popular as well around here...

[the_toe_cutter]

Hows progress Snadam?

I was looking at my old rs250 brembo two pad oro calipers i intend using with your brackets and while the pistons are ok the seals are brittle.
It was my belief that brembo didnt do replacement seals for calipers due to some crazy litigation messin but they do supply them for KTM....so we are sorted. My old rs250 calipers can now be rebuilt in readiness for your bracketry! Im really looking forward to better braking!

Heres the two pad caliper as used on the 2004 640 LC4 SUPERMOTO PRESTIG



Order them here http://www.ktmworld.com/ktm_oem_part...er=58713021000


And heres the 4 pad as used on the 2005 990 Superduke



Order them here http://shop.jimaimracing.co.uk/acata...uke_05-06.html