Malossi Multivar V2008 testing

[rd400guy]

(Continuation of this post)

So in addition to the other mods in my signature, here was my transmission setup: Stock variator, 4.5g rollers, and stock contra spring with the Malossi Torsion Control. With this setup, she'd do ~51 mph at 8500 rpm, and could get another 2 mph (9000 rpm) on a long straight/slight decline.

I ordered the Malossi Multivar V2008 (for Piaggio) from HG. It came with 2 sets of rollers, 3.5g and 3.8g, and a purple contra spring, which is about 2" shorter than the stock contra, and is listed at 82%. FWIW, the V2008 uses 19mm x 15.5mm rollers, the same dimension as stock variator rollers.

I installed the variator using the 3.8g rollers supplied with the kit, and the purple contra spring. Took her out. She very easily spun up to 9500 rpm, and accelerated quickly to 20 mph, but then didn't gain much from there. At 9500 rpm, she topped out about 35 mph, and on the same long straight/slight decline, was doing 40 mph at 10,000 rpm. I'm afraid to see what would happen if I put the 3.5g rollers in. It's definintely appearing as though the V2008 really wants a 70cc kit, and perhaps the overrange Malossi Torque Driver and Malossi "special"/long belt.

The good news is, I now have 5 sets of rollers: 3.5g, 3.8g, 4.5g, 5.0g, and 5.3g ('09 stock weight). And I have 3 contra springs at my disposal, Malossi purple, Piaggio stock, and Polini white.

I'm gonna have to order or make a variator locking tool, and perhaps the clutch tool, as it looks like I'm gonna be doing a lot of transmission tuning in the next few weeks. But alas, winter is very rapidly approaching (hard freeze warning tonight). So my scooter tuning days are numbered.

So, thanks to the Multivar V2008 using the same dimension rollers, using 6 of the same weight, or 3+3, I now have the following roller weights available to me: 3.5, 3.65, 3.8, 4.0, 4.15, 4.25, 4.4, 4.5, 4.55, 4.75, 4.9, 5.0, 5.15, and 5.3, couple that with the three different contras, I have 42 total combinations I could try.

I could be at this a while...

[High-Gain SR50]

Your not compressing the contrast spring and revving a little on the high side. Start increasing the roller weight a little at a time.

[onu123]

I have about the same variator. Only a bit older model.
You probably need to go with the heaviest you have (5,3).
Maybe even need heavier ones.
Using a lighter contra may result in belt slipping.

[rd400guy]

Originally Posted by High-Gain SR50

Your not compressing the contrast spring and revving a little on the high side. Start increasing the roller weight a little at a time.

Yeah, this is what I'm planning. But if the heavier rollers (3.8g) that come with the variator can't compress the spring that also comes with the variator, makes me wonder where you would use the 3.5g rollers. I guess I'm wondering why they'd include such light rollers, if they're not up to the task.

For what it's worth, it didn't seem like it was making much more power at 9500 rpm, but the butt dyno probably got confused since speed was so low; it's not a very sophisticated measurement / testing tool.

Originally Posted by onu123

I have about the same variator. Only a bit older model.
You probably need to go with the heaviest you have (5,3).
Maybe even need heavier ones.
Using a lighter contra may result in belt slipping.

5.3g came stock in my '09, and my acceleration was pretty bad. Which is why I originally went to white contra.

I was also thinking about belt slipping. How do I tell / confirm belt is or isn't slipping?


Since I was getting 52 mph @ 8500 rpm with 4.5g and stock spring, I was thinking perhaps trying out the Multivar with 4.5g and stock spring - just to do an apples/apples comparison on the variator itself, with no other changes complicating the matter.

I was also gonna aim at the 4.15 / 4.25 / 4.4 combos with the purple spring, since they're a little lighter than where I was so I might get up to the 8750-9000 rev range (where she seemed to put out the most butt dyno power), and with the lighter-than-stock purple spring, I'll still be able to spin out the rollers and get top speed.

Next question, opinions: which'd be cheaper, just buy the variator locking tool and clutch tool, or fabricate them?

[shrubman]

I've got mine in place with the BBK and the black (lighter) rollers. Once I get my new outer pulley (probably tomorrow) I'll be doing a road test. I'm eager to compare results!

[onu123]

Originally Posted by rd400guy

Next question, opinions: which'd be cheaper, just buy the variator locking tool and clutch tool, or fabricate them?

Buying them is a great idea.
Also see this topic about home-made stuff.
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...d.php?t=188720

[High-Gain SR50]

Originally Posted by rd400guy

Yeah, this is what I'm planning. But if the heavier rollers (3.8g) that come with the variator can't compress the spring that also comes with the variator, makes me wonder where you would use the 3.5g rollers. I guess I'm wondering why they'd include such light rollers, if they're not up to the task.

This kit also fits the carbureted Piaggio's that can be tuned to turn 12k-14k. That creates a lot more force than a DiTech turning 9k

For what it's worth, it didn't seem like it was making much more power at 9500 rpm, but the butt dyno probably got confused since speed was so low; it's not a very sophisticated measurement / testing tool.

Not so much power but after you get it to where the contrast spring is compressing all the way, a smoother transition and little higher top speed

.....

[Sp33d-Fr34k]

6,1g og more!

[SilverSurfer]

I think the torsion-controller is what could be throwing things off. I think the torsion controller makes it so you need a slightly heavier set of rollers....?

I'm gonna take a stab in the dark and say: try 4.25grams

...and I'd just say you should get the correct tool....

[Sp33d-Fr34k]

The Torsion controller does nothing!

You just cant use 4g on the MHR variator on a sport setup. 4g would work if the setup was like a good mid-range 70cc..

You dont compare stock variator with multivar.

You guys with the factory SR deals only with sport equipment. My opinion is that the Multivar 08 aint worth the money to put on a SR with a stock/sport cylinder and a sport exhaust like the ZX,Reverse etc.

Stock variator on piaggio engine is very good! If you own the SR minarelli a multivar would be a much better upgrade

[benzina]

Originally Posted by rd400guy

5.3g came stock in my '09, and my acceleration was pretty bad. Which is why I originally went to white contra.

Since I was getting 52 mph @ 8500 rpm with 4.5g and stock spring, I was thinking perhaps trying out the Multivar with 4.5g and stock spring - just to do an apples/apples comparison on the variator itself, with no other changes complicating the matter.

I would try this ^^^^

[onu123]

Oh gee...
I just got my "BBK" on and i'm using 7.2 gram rollers with piaggio stock contra.
And it's still pulling very very strong.
With 6.35 g combo it over-revved.
Anyways. You have a different exhaust and probably other things differ too.

[rd400guy]

Originally Posted by benzina

I would try this ^^^^

I'm "jumping around" a bit: I decided to go with 4.15g in the Multivar, and keep the purple spring in. I got it all set up last night and was gonna test it; alas, when I opened the garage door there was a cold rain falling. My logic is that 4.5g wouldn't get me over 8500 rpm regularly, and on the rare instances when she did, she seemed a little stronger up to 9k. So I'm "targeting" 8750-9000 rpm. I'll see if the 4.15g will do it, if she overshoots 9k I still have 4.25 and 4.4g combos to try. If acceleration is too bad but revs are right, I'll put the stock contra back in (and probably have to go down a notch on roller weight combo).

Originally Posted by onu123

Oh gee...
I just got my "BBK" on and i'm using 7.2 gram rollers with piaggio stock contra.
And it's still pulling very very strong.
With 6.35 g combo it over-revved.
Anyways. You have a different exhaust and probably other things differ too.

Yes, and I'm still running only 50cc cylinder.

BTW, I fabricated a clutch tool last night:

1/4" x 3/4" x 3' steel stock, cut a piece 15" and one at 8".
5/16"-16 x 1" hex head and corresponding nylock nut for pivot (through 5/16" hole in each piece).
(2) M7-1.00 x 25mm hex heads for the "pins" that hold bell/clutch; drilled 15/64" hole in end of bar stock and tapped to M7-1.00.

The whole project was $9 and change, all raw material / hardware bought at Lowe's, and I had the drill bits and tap.

Used it last night just to see how well it worked. Now both the clutch nut (34mm) and bell nut (15mm) are properly torqued to factory specs: 34mm clutch nut = 55-60 Nm (40-44 lb.ft.), 15mm bell nut = 40-44 Nm (29-33 lb.ft.).

There's enough steel stock left over for me to fabricate a variator locking tool, as well. I'm planning on drilling holes to match the transmission case holes, then carefully using the Dremel to match the variator teeth.

[Grenadiers]

Originally Posted by rd400guy

BTW, I fabricated a clutch tool last night:

1/4" x 3/4" x 3' steel stock, cut a piece 15" and one at 8".
5/16"-16 x 1" hex head and corresponding nylock nut for pivot (through 5/16" hole in each piece).
(2) M7-1.00 x 25mm hex heads for the "pins" that hold bell/clutch; drilled 15/64" hole in end of bar stock and tapped to M7-1.00.

The whole project was $9 and change, all raw material / hardware bought at Lowe's, and I had the drill bits and tap.

Used it last night just to see how well it worked. Now both the clutch nut (34mm) and bell nut (15mm) are properly torqued to factory specs: 34mm clutch nut = 55-60 Nm (40-44 lb.ft.), 15mm bell nut = 40-44 Nm (29-33 lb.ft.).

There's enough steel stock left over for me to fabricate a variator locking tool, as well. I'm planning on drilling holes to match the transmission case holes, then carefully using the Dremel to match the variator teeth.

PICS!!!! Show us the money!

Sounds like a sweet build!!

[rd400guy]

BTW, I fabricated a clutch tool last night:

1/4" x 3/4" x 3' steel stock, cut a piece 15" and one at 8".
5/16"-16 x 1" hex head and corresponding nylock nut for pivot (through 5/16" hole in each piece).
(2) M7-1.00 x 25mm hex heads for the "pins" that hold bell/clutch; drilled 15/64" hole in end of bar stock and tapped to M7-1.00.

The whole project was $9 and change, all raw material / hardware bought at Lowe's, and I had the drill bits and tap.

Used it last night just to see how well it worked. Now both the clutch nut (34mm) and bell nut (15mm) are properly torqued to '09 Piaggio factory specs: 34mm clutch nut = 55-60 Nm (40-44 lb.ft.), 15mm bell nut = 40-44 Nm (29-33 lb.ft.).


It ain't pretty, but it works. If I'm bored some day, I'll slap some paint on it and maybe that rubber handle dip on the handle end.