Twist of the wrist II

[supersonik808]

After seeing so much praise for this book, in this forum as well as other publications, I finally bought and read it. Full of insight and technical information, I now understand why this book is considered to be required reading for any cycling enthusiast.
My only gripe, and I noted that several other people felt the same, is the condescending style of writing. Applying an asterisk * next to words that he defines later in the chapter, such words as: actually, tailored, distinct, knowledge, technology, value, hunting, to name a few, seem, well, dickish*.
My conclusion is that he either wrote this for:
a) very stupid people
b) people for whom English is their 3rd language
c) folks who may have never read anything, period, in their lives
d) all of the above
Other than that, an excellent, if somewhat annoying read. Recommended!
* penis-like.

[pslater]

i loved the book too but what I don't get about the book is the concept of 'pivot steering'. Keith seems to advocate weighting the outside peg in the setion of the book. i've done that on bicycles and motocross bikes where traction can be marginal, but on a road bike? weighting the inside peg lowers the center of gravity more than the outside peg and places more weight on the inside traction surface of the tire right?

reg pridmore's book advocates weighting the inside peg and with personal experience and watching a number of moto gp and ama sbk races, it seem those riders do too. at least i have seen riders boots come off an ouside peg in cornering but never an inside peg.

who actually weights the outside peg in cornering????

[The Dr.Jon]

Originally Posted by pslater

reg pridmore's book advocates weighting the inside peg and with personal experience and watching a number of moto gp and ama sbk races, it seem those riders do too. at least i have seen riders boots come off an ouside peg in cornering but never an inside peg.

who actually weights the outside peg in cornering????

Mamola and Whitam have discussed the need to weight the outside peg. I guess it's helping the counter steering?? Like you I have always favoured weighting the inside peg. Perhaps it's just for racers who steer a bike so much quicker than the rest of us mortals?

[TRexRacing]

Coming from an off road background I have used both.I find the outside peg works better however it's harder to use when hanging off.The inside works easier when hanging off so I've moved to doing that mostly.I also find the inside works far better when transitioning from one side to the other (chicane style) in quick succession.It's more natural in that situation too.Lately leaning my upper body off the bike in addition to hanging off gives me more confidence when using the inside peg.

[QuickHX]

Seems counter-intuitive, but I'm a Type B personality... anybody want to pose the question in the Racer's Forum?
I'm too scared.


-Quick (at least that's what I keep telling myself)

[supersonik808]

I have no dirt background although I have ridden several smaller dirt bikes for fun, nor have I raced on track yet so I can't speak about pivot steering regarding any of those circumstances. However, I will say that I've used the technique while riding and turning with a stiff crosswind (35mph +) blowing across the road and have found that it helps to keep me feeling more in control, as I attempt to lean into the corner (using more inner peg than outer). I would imagine that utilizing this technique would be easier on a smaller, lighter bike, but still, I have no problem climbing all over my T, it's just the size, at times, that catches me out. Especially on a tight, tight road. I know that the bike can handle more than I can dish out, it's just sometimes on the lean, the ground comes up too fast.

[scanman]

Originally Posted by The Dr.Jon

Mamola and Whitam have discussed the need to weight the outside peg. I guess it's helping the counter steering?? Like you I have always favoured weighting the inside peg. Perhaps it's just for racers who steer a bike so much quicker than the rest of us mortals?

to me the outside peg makes more sense as you are tranfering weight off the inside of the tyre. if you put too much weight on the inside of the tyre when cornering the tyre will not be able to cope...if the tyres are loaded too much in the corner they will wash out from under you and you will most likely lowside the bike...at least that was my understanding of theory....

i seem to remember that haga was exceptional at recovering this situation of washout by leaning his knee down more and therefor taking load of the tyre giving it more chance to grip again.....hope this helps

[FTM]

Originally Posted by The Dr.Jon

Mamola and Whitam have discussed the need to weight the outside peg. I guess it's helping the counter steering?? Like you I have always favoured weighting the inside peg. Perhaps it's just for racers who steer a bike so much quicker than the rest of us mortals?

You weight both pegs, the seat and the tyre, oh your poor bike.

[QuickHX]

A quote that makes sense:

"I have been racing and teaching for many years now and I don't even think about the pegs. The important thing to me is that your weight is on the balls of your feet. That makes the bike think the center of gravity of the bike is much lower and it will turn better. Many top riders talk about weight on one peg or the other but I do not see a difference.

(This part is good-)
For you to put weight on a different peg, you have to push off on something. Any bar input except to steer the bike is a bad thing. Just keeping very little weight in the seat is more important to me.
Try to find a photo of a top racer that is sitting in the seat. Hard to find. Most are out of the seat and up over the front. Especially with big motor bikes.
Carl
www.101expert.com "

This site
http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/to...ID=7045&#87879
gets VERY deep, and has pointers to some very heady stuff, like http://www.tonyfoale.com/

More confused than ever, so I think I'll go for a ride,

-QuickHX

[The Dr.Jon]

Originally Posted by FTM

You weight both pegs, the seat and the tyre, oh your poor bike.

It's the safest way yer TWAT!

[Chris_Mag]

I tend to weight the outside peg, as KC describes.

I would agree that outside foot+inside hand tends to give the best leverage for getting the bike turned (twisting with your core, side-stance style).

Try this: Have a friend stand in front of you. Stand parellel to a friend, feet forward. Shove your friend w/o moving your feet. Now, try again... Stand sideways, back foot bracing you. Push with your back (outside leg) and inside arm (right leg, left arm). You'll notice you have a lot more leverage.



Also, some pressure on the outside peg allows me better control over positioning my weight when hanging off (off the seat), especially since my knee is braced across the tank. The inside leg is generally too loose to get effective pressure on the peg, especially if I'm knee-down.

[kzmille]

Originally Posted by supersonik808

...My only gripe, and I noted that several other people felt the same, is the condescending style of writing...

Kieth Code is a little bit high on Scientology and may have damaged a few brain cells in early life so he has a hard time relating to unenlightened human beings.

[BrummyMax]

Originally Posted by kzmille

Kieth Code is a little bit high on Scientology and may have damaged a few brain cells in early life so he has a hard time relating to unenlightened human beings.

Scientology is worse than smack. He's been going down IMO.

[pslater]

Hmm, ran across the article from Keith Code's website and it sort of struck me as a 'self evident truth'. If a bike won't turn without the forks turning too, counter steering is what turns the bike.

What hanging off, body steering, weight shifting or what ever you want to call it does is allow the bike to be leaned over less for any given corner speed thereby giving a larger margin of safety. It also seems true that any weight shifting should be done BEFORE you get to the corner. It sounds like the jury may be out on the peg weighting issue so perhaps the 'equal pressure on both' would be a decent default position.

http://www.superbikeschool.com/machi...bs-machine.php

[supersonik808]

Scientology? Robot gods and vampires? That explains it, then.