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Thread: Variator, roller weights and contra spring mechanics for dummies! Learn how it works

  1. #31
    apriliaforum newb
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    Thumbs up

    I produce documentation for training computer programs at work. I have to agree, your efforts producing these explanations with photos are first rate.
    Perhaps compile them into a PDF for inclusion in the tech tips section of the forum.
    That way, if anyone needs some help/advice, they can just download and print the PDF.
    Saves possibly losing the actual thread. (as time goes by.)
    Done any work with a scarabeo 50 ditech?
    Well done.

  2. #32
    apriliaforum expert scootnfast's Avatar
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    I have talked to the guys at AF1 and MOTOTEK, and they say there isn't one that fits the ditech... I was wanting to get one also, but was told there wasn't one available for the ditechs.
    02' SR Ditech - 03' Mojito Retro - 04' Mojito Custom

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  3. #33
    apriliaforum expert Modular Overrev's Avatar
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    yes, parts from Morini DITECH will fit Mrini carb & vicxe versa so if you haven't found transmission parts for your DITECH just look at the carb model for the parts you want.

    the greatest asset of a tuner is his/her ingenuity. do just like we did when parts for scooters were very scarce convert,convert convert.
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    2004 Yamaha Aerox R
    Yasuni C21 MHR Team 6T 70cc kit MHR Team crank Stage6 crank bearings PVL inner rotor ignition Keihin PWK28 carb Malossi VL12 reevalve KOSO manifold Polini Evo SS9 vario Malossi ventilvar Bando belt Polini 128mm rear pulley Malossi Delta clutch Malossi Wingbell Polini 15/42 gear kit Malossi RS24 rear shock Aprilia Rally 12" wheels Bridgestone Racing Battlax tires

  4. #34
    Moderator DRT-Tuning's Avatar
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    [i]...

    the greatest asset of a tuner is his/her ingenuity. do just like we did when parts for scooters were very scarce convert,convert convert. [/B]
    Not anyone has a lathe in his garage Tiba
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  5. #35
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    variator

    right on the money! I wish I could have read this 7 months ago, it would have saved me alot of aggravation. I finally have my malaguti f12 running right. how bout a segment on pipes? Nobody seems to know the deal on my dealer installed gianelli pipe.Carbon fiber looking silencer with no apparent model #.

  6. #36
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    Originally posted by scootnfast
    Once the pully has been removed, you have to remove the large nut on the side of the clutch. This can be rather difficult. The bolt is on rather tight, and it is very difficult to hold the pully while you loosen it.

    Be careful after you loosen it. The whole clutch is essentially spring loaded. The contra spring is pushing on the clutch. When the bolt is fully removed, the clutch will shoot out at you. So be sure to hold it firmly when removing the bolt and be careful.
    I must say it is rather tight... any suggestions on how to get it off? I can't get mine to move for love or money.

  7. #37
    apriliaforum expert scootnfast's Avatar
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    I used a pair of leather gloves to hold the pully.... The pully has sharp edges on it and will slice your hands if it turns while you are holding it. Then I had a friend get ahold of the nut with a pair of channel locks. It took a while of fighting with it, but it finally came loose.

    Try smacking the channel locks with a hammer to jerk the nut loose while you have a firm grasp on the pully. This impacting can break the nut loose a little easier.

    Good luck!
    02' SR Ditech - 03' Mojito Retro - 04' Mojito Custom

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  8. #38
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    Ok I will Give that a try, Thank you for the help.

  9. #39
    apriliaforum expert scootnfast's Avatar
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    I would highly reccomend getting an impact wrench. You may end up taking the variator off several times in order to get the weights just right. I have taken mine off probably close to 100 times... If I didn't have an impact wrench, I would really hate doing this. I can change my rollers in about 5 minutes now.

    I have also heard of several people having problems with the strap wrenches. They are difficult to use, and I have heard of several people breaking air fins off the variator while using them.

    you can get a cheap electric impach wrench for about $40-$50. It won't be a top quality tool, but it will get the job done, and it will do it well. I wouldn't advise using a $50 impact to remove and install a new wheel on a car, but it will work great on the variator.

    I believe the vario nut is 17mm.

    And also, I actually have gone to red loctite... Red is considered "permanent", and the blue is "Temporary"... Meaning that the blue is made to "Melt" or soften up when heat is applied... Being that the crank gets rather hot, and hearing that others have had problems with this nut comming off, I decided to change to the red. It is a little harder to impact off, but it still comes off without much trouble when I am using the red.
    02' SR Ditech - 03' Mojito Retro - 04' Mojito Custom

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  10. #40
    apriliaforum expert scootnfast's Avatar
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    Well for one it is almost impossible to torque the nut on the vario. It will just turn the motor when you try to torque it... And two, it isn't all that important. If you just impact the nut on so it is good and tight and have lock tight on, you won't have any problems.
    02' SR Ditech - 03' Mojito Retro - 04' Mojito Custom

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  11. #41
    Moderator DRT-Tuning's Avatar
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    Impact wrenches can be quite expansive.

    Luckely there are these incredible handy Buzzetti tools, that makes unbolting/tightening the variator/clutch/big pully screw a piece of cake:

    Clutch:



    hard to see, but you can see 2 "studs" that lock into the clutchbell's holes. This locks up the rear variator axle. Now just use your socket wrench and...DONE.

    Now you probably also noticed the big "Hexagon" shape. Yes this fits exactly over that big and flat TQ screw. Again making bolting/unbolting a 1 minute job.

    variator:

    (bit small)
    (copy/paste link in new browser window)

    http://www.easyparts.nl/partpics/01087899.jpg

    This locks onto that tooted ring (on the crankshaft) that the small kickstarter gear locks on to when kickstarting.
    This locks up the variator/crankshaft.

    Again, get your socket wrench and unbolting and torqueing it up is soooo easy.


    And for those people that don't give anything about there stuff, there's always the pistonlock:



    This screws into your sparkplug hole, blocking the piston.

    Of course with a soft(er) aluminium piston, when applying (lot's of) torque on the crankshaft nut, you risc damaging your piston.

    I have used it years ago (without any damage) before these cool Buzzetti tools existed, and before I knew anything about scooters.
    Last edited by DRT-Tuning; 05-25-2004 at 06:46 PM.
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  12. #42
    Moderator DRT-Tuning's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TiminIndy
    First of all, where do you get that first cool tool. Secondly, the hard part about removing the thin nut on the clutch is holding the clutch still. Does it help with that?

    (Of course I already went out and bought an air compressor and impact wrench, but the clutch is still a pain)

    PS- The link doesn't work (Forbidden)
    Don't click the link, but copy paste in new browser window.

    Where you can het these tools is impossible to say on an international forum. Check local bikeshops.

    Holding the clutch is easy: use abench-vice. Use the clutch segments that hold the friction material and lock that in the vice. Now you have the whole assembly in front of you, with the nut on top. Now it's a piece of cake to unscrew/screw.

    Only part that will always be a little tricky is getting the clutch over the pulleys, specially with a STRONG contra-spring. Definitely need two persons for that. On that compresses the spring (with the clutch) and the other one needs to het the hex-nut on (which is very tricky, since the nut is so superthing (3mm)

    Been using those 2 tools since 1999, can't live without them!
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  13. #43
    apriliaforum expert scootnfast's Avatar
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    Well, I will agree slightly... I know what every one says, but I have to say that I had VERY good luck with the red spring on my 50cc de-restricted ditech... I really hate recomending the yellow spring because it is essentially the same if not weaker than the stock spring... I took the yellow and my stock spring into work and put them on an instron machine and the yellow actually tested a bit lighter than the stock spring... I know they say that the yellow is stronger, but my tests say other wise.

    I know most say that the red don't belong on 50cc scoots, but I can't argue with results. I had excellent results with the red spring on my scoot when it was 50cc... Now when I upgraded to a big bore kit, the white spring worked out best for me then.
    02' SR Ditech - 03' Mojito Retro - 04' Mojito Custom

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  14. #44
    apriliaforum expert scootnfast's Avatar
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    I had the gianelli nrx exhaust and I had 6g rollers... That is just the thing, when I had my stock or yellow spring in, the scooter didn't want to down shift correctly and when I tries to re-accelerate it was very sluggish. Once I put the red in it didn't seem to effect my top end much if at all, but it down shifted very fast and re-acceleration was excellent... That is why I say I had great results with the red.

    I probably could have gotten the same results with lighter rollers, but at the time I didn't have any lighter rollers on hand, but I did have a red spring on hand.
    02' SR Ditech - 03' Mojito Retro - 04' Mojito Custom

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  15. #45
    apriliaforum Member motobruce's Avatar
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    Rite.. ive just bought a piaggio nrg ac off of my mate as a project bike and im new to variators etc as i work with geared bikes not autos.

    The problem is that its acceleration is poor and it barley goes up hills he fitted a doppler pipe and it does about 55 when it finally gets up to speed. He said the rollers need changing as they are the standard weight but how do i know what weight to use. For this problem will i need heavier lighter what?

    Thanx for any help.
    Super-motobruce!

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