Power Loss - amalgamate Oil type, spark plug fouling, Gas Type (Petrol,fuel)

[muchacho]

http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=84529
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=74315
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=80805
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=63382
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=57578
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=39231
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=56274

Ok, I have looked through a lot of posts on this forum regarding power loss and I have found three common types of problem

Powerloss due to:
1) Oil Type
2) Sparkplug Fouling
3) Bad gas / fuel / petrol

I think that the two current threads on sparkplugs and emulsion problems should be put together

http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=86354
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=82254

I think that we will never find a difinitive answer to this question unless we focus on making one change at a time.

Hopefully the following people from the two threads above will contribute and continue the conversation here - brunstei, THE MAX, Speedway, DonWerner, skip, RobS

Fuel
Everyone doing testing should try to use the same fuel types. Keep in mind that there are different ways to rate octane in europe and north america.

Oil
I guess everyone knows that they should be on Agip City 2t

Sparkplugs
Either stock or some Denso/NGK equivalent

The first thing you guys should do, is post what Fuel/Oil/Sparkplug combination you guys are using and then decide how best to proceed. brunstei, THE MAX, Speedway, DonWerner, skip, RobS - start posting!

[DonWerner]

Okay, I'll get the ball rolling. Unfortnately I've been sick for the last 3-4 days, so I haven't got around to changing the sparkplug like I wrote in another thread I would.

To sum up, here's my situation. After I got my Giannelli pipe on, my bike have been running great. Though on the last few trips I've had some very brief episodes of powerloss.

Sparkplugs:
I'm now gonna try and pull out the stock plug and put in a new CPR8E and see what happens. It might work different on the Piaggio engine, which I have, than on the Morini, who knows. The stock plug have about 1000 km on it.

Fuel & Oil
I use Shell V-Power gas (97 octane) and Agip City 2T oil.

One quick question: How do you get to the plug when you wanna change it? I was just looking at it today, but couldn't figure out the easiest way to do it? Do you need to take off the battery to do it or do you go in from below the scooter?

- Don

[muchacho]

I forgot to enter my own info (in case it helps)

I have not experienced any powerloss. I have over 2500 kilometers on my stock bike without making changes.

Sparkplug:
Stock - what ever comes with it

Oil:
Agip City 2T from the start (the dealer knew about this)

Gas:
Esso Supreme 91 [(RON+MON)/2]

[StockMan]

DonWerner: I don't know if the '06 model has the engine placed like my '01, but in my case the easiest way is to get under the scooter, pull off the plug cable, and the fit a 16mm plug wrench (type long) to the plug.
The spark plug is placed in an angle of 45 degr, pointing backwards, just below the centre stand.

[sdean4816]

My 2006 Morini has the plug in the same spot as Stockman from the post above.
Steve

[DonWerner]

I'm fairly sure it must be different on the Piaggio engine then, coz it seems to me to be more or less impossible to get to it from that way. I can't even get a clear view at it from below. There must be some Piaggio owners here, that can tell me how they do it?

- Don

[muchacho]

Sorry, I am going to post this 3 times in the 3 threads - It's something to keep in mind, maybe going uphill is not different than a Wheelie and thus you experience powerloss. Have you guys checked if your tank is low when you experience powerloss?

You are right !

The guy (fugie) from the movie below mailed me with the question why his di-tech does no long wheelies http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq4sYIhNCA8

Its a fact when making a wheelie all the air get sucked into the feulpomp..and even a littel air make the scoot powerloss for a time

[06spidey2]

Nobodys talking bout wheelie's here, Muchacho. I use only the top grade fuel (91 octane in CA), and seem to have no problem in 50°-100°f, 100ft above sea level, and still have the original plug. I only have ~550 miles on it, and will be trying a new NGKplatinum plug tomorrow (PMR8A). I want to make sure it will work as a back-up. Its a direct match to the CPR8E.

[THE MAX]

I use only the top grade fuel (91 octane in CA), and seem to have no problem in 50°-100°f, 100ft above sea level, and still have the original plug. I only have ~550 miles on it, and will be trying a new NGKplatinum plug tomorrow (PMR8A). I want to make sure it will work as a back-up. Its a direct match to the CPR8E.

Your 06 ecu has a pressure sensor in it ....so no problem with altitude

[Speedway]

Your 06 ecu has a pressure sensor in it ....so no problem with altitude

hmmm...pressure sensor to messure the air preesure...
is it a smalll change in the mixture ait/fuel the pressure sensor do...
if so then there is more fuel fuel to get out of this model of ECU......???

[deathwest]

I don't think there is a pressure sensor. Even if it had how do you want it take more air than the compression permit to take ?

It isn't able to control the air flow how do you want it choose to adjust it with the external pressure?

[THE MAX]

I don't think there is a pressure sensor. Even if it had how do you want it take more air than the compression permit to take ?

It isn't able to control the air flow how do you want it choose to adjust it with the external pressure?

The pressure sensor is INSIDE the (06) ecu and messures differends in altitude and wheather conditions ....

-this has nothing to do with flow or engine conditions

[muchacho]

The angle of the hill might effect powerloss IFF you have low fuel tank (NO?)

I am only putting this out there since you all have powerloss problem and no matter what spark plug you go to, you still have power loss. I have not had any power loss. I am almost at 3000km and still on the original spark plug.

I think you guys should be carefull with the gas you are using. I remember buying an iridium plug for my Yamaha and the mechanic told me that I was just going to be wasting my money because the fuel in Toronto tends to foul the plugs (in a wide range of different engines). It is because of the additives.

[brunstei]

I'm still just under 500 km on the CR7EIX@ 0.72mm, Chevron 94, Agip City 2T. Since the power losses @ 340km, it's been running fine again. Muchacho, I've had (rare) power losses on the flat, not just uphill, so while it's a good thought and I'll see if there's any correlation to fuel level in the future, I suspect that's not the cause - rather it's probably the heavy load on the engine.

Once I hit 500 km on this CR7EIX, I'm going to put in a fresh one, gapped at 0.9mm (done carefully so as not to touch the centre electrode). I may also switch to Esso 91, there have been multiple suggestions that the top grade additive rich gas doesn't really run well in these engines.

I haven't been posting much because I haven't been riding the DiTech much these last two weeks - trying to get practice/experience on the CB400A for my road test for a 'full' MC license....

[DonWerner]

Yeah, I agree with you Brunstei - The powerlosses I've had is both on flat ground and up hill as well. Which suggests it's probably the heavy load on the engine that triggers it. Good thought though Muchacho.

And good luck on the test Brunstei!

- Don