Capo vs Ducati ST4.....and More

[team222]

I just got back from the CBX National in the mountains of NC and as one would expect many CBXers and their friends brought along newer "daily rides" since the X is 25 years old now. Most riders were in their 50s, but there were plenty of younger riders that brought along CBXs and their newer daily rides.

I took the Capo and am happy to report it performed to perfection in the twisites and on the straights to the great surprise of most there.

MY CAPO SETUP IS CHEAP AND WORKS !!!
16t, forks raised 18mm in tubes which dropped the front, 26mm spacers in fork tubes, fork oil as delivered, Bridgestone 020s ....back is 160x60 and Ducati 916 stock mufflers (man did they sound great)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

CAPO VS DUCATI ST4s ROLLON
On three rollons with a Ducati ST4s......it was even up each time!!! I can not confirm the top end of the Capo vs the ST4s since we shut off a bit earlier than the Capo redline on each run, but I have to think the ST4s might have a higher top end. I have a 16t and weigh about 50lbs more that the Duck rider

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

TWISTIES
In the twisties the Capo held its own against all the other bikes except a current model 1000cc Suz hyper sport bike ridden by an X road racer

The Capo flat out ran away from all the other bikes on one 6+ mile up hill twistie run to get to the Blue Ridge entrance (some two lane sections going up).

Note: No 600cc squid bikes were on this ride, but it was still an accomplishment for the Capo since most of the other bikes were modified new/newer naked sport type bikes like the Kawa ZRX or Suz 1200s. Coming back down this hill the Capo was even faster and more superior and in going up and coming down the hill the Capo left the Ducati ST4s.

Later in evenings some of the beer talk centered around the Capo and since no one ever seen one before I was happy to advise all those that could not quite keep up that it was the Capo was only a 650cc. hahaha

Last day of the rally I told them the truth on the motor size ...........but they were stilllll plenty impressed with the ole Capo



Best



Mike

[ra2bach]

the ST4 has the 916 motor and was never tuned for mind-blowing acceleration. it is also geared fairly high (as are all Ducatis) so it's not like this was an apples/apples comparison.

they are quite a nice bike and before I had my Capo, I had an ST4 which I was looking to trade for the "s" version with the 996 motor but then I got a little horizontal with it and ended up taking the insurance check and picked up the Caponord.

now I have a 996SBK AND the Capo. life. mysterious ways and all that...

[team222]

the ST4 has the 916 motor and was never tuned for mind-blowing acceleration. it is also geared fairly high (as are all Ducatis) so it's not like this was an apples/apples comparison.

they are quite a nice bike and before I had my Capo, I had an ST4 which I was looking to trade for the "s" version with the 996 motor but then I got a little horizontal with it and ended up taking the insurance check and picked up the Caponord.

now I have a 996SBK AND the Capo. life. mysterious ways and all that...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Thanks for your reply.

My view is it is very impressive for the Capo to keep up with the ST4 on a rollon nomatter what the specs are for each bike. Keep in mind this all started at 5,000 rpm or so an not from a standstill.

I never said this in the original post, but down deep and without much to back it up (see below), I think if I cloned myself and the clone rode the ST4 on the exact twistie road I discussed in this post.........the Capo the way I have mine setup would keep up there also.

Actually, I did ride the Capo in these same twisties with the ST4. Results were one of us was waiting at the top of the hill for the other................and the one that got there last was surprised and amazed at what just happened. You can take it from there.

Footnote: The ST4 owner has 30 years of riding experience and brough a 999 to the rally also and as such is not a newbie.

Best


Mike



Mike

[ian-parkes]

Interesting Mike . A mate has recently got an st4s so will hve to give it a go . I rode with him once the first day he got it so could not judge much there

I would expect the same rider to be quicker on an st4 through twisties but that is just my feeling , probably because it looks faster. My mate has has an st2 which is similar but less power . i can't stay with him on any twisties no matter what he rides. I was out with him on sunday both of us 2 up and the capo certainly has more power than the st2 but still he was faster than me on open road bends.

I have been fancying a Futura recently . partly because I feel it may be a better road bike than the capo and still retain some good 2 up touring qualities. I wouldn't swap the capo for a futura at present but want to buy a futura and then decide which i like the best. I doubt the futura would give me personally the comfort of the capo , as my legs would be too cramped.

have you ever tried one

[team222]

Hi Ian

Good points again.

Overall I was fully expected to get really whupped on the rollon vs ST4 and in the twisties .........he expected to do the whupppping and it didnt turn out that way and I found that pretty amazing.

I guess its again the case of never judging a bike by its cover or the age of the rider or something....

>>>>

I have rode a Futura and they are great bikes. The seat is esp comfortable and the passenger part of the seat has to be one of the biggest and most comfy ever. I like them and I think would also. Get a test spin and see for yourself

Dan owns one and his wife and him ride it to all our get togethers and I hope he reads this and replies since he has 40k miles or so on his. Go here to post him a pm http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=49691 post #28

>>>>

If I rode solo or with a passenger and wanted a sport bike I would consider the Futura. If I was younger and rode solo I would consider the Turono. If I was smaller and younger I would go for the Mille. If I was smaller, younger and rich I would go for an updated Mille Factory Superbike.

If, If, If.....but in the end I love the Capo and it has one advantage none of the others above have.............when you stay up with anyone in the twisties or straights........its a win since no one is expecting that and as such it is a no lose situation.

>>>>

2006 Newfoundland ride is moving along. We might have a new 2006 Capo Demo bike for someone to ride along with us.......any ideas who might like that?

Later now


Mike

Interesting Mike . A mate has recently got an st4s so will hve to give it a go . I rode with him once the first day he got it so could not judge much there

I would expect the same rider to be quicker on an st4 through twisties but that is just my feeling , probably because it looks faster. My mate has has an st2 which is similar but less power . i can't stay with him on any twisties no matter what he rides. I was out with him on sunday both of us 2 up and the capo certainly has more power than the st2 but still he was faster than me on open road bends.

I have been fancying a Futura recently . partly because I feel it may be a better road bike than the capo and still retain some good 2 up touring qualities. I wouldn't swap the capo for a futura at present but want to buy a futura and then decide which i like the best. I doubt the futura would give me personally the comfort of the capo , as my legs would be too cramped.

have you ever tried one

[ian-parkes]

you think the same lines as me Mike .
I have been making an effort lately to slow down and not try to keep up . The roads here get too busy in the summer . There are times I wonder if I push the capo too near the limit of brakes and tyres . It never gets out of shape , now its sorted ,
So much of riding is in the head , i look at the fatter tyres and bigger brakes etc on the ducati and futura and can't help feel that it has to be more capable and therefore safer .
Then I look at the presence the capo has and the controll with the wide bars and off road style and think maybe I have got it right .

Ok I have just talked myself in two bikes , the reality is I guess one bike just can't do it all , although the capo is pretty close .

Tell me more about that spare bike

[QuickSilverCapo]

I have been fancying a Futura recently . partly because I feel it may be a better road bike than the capo and still retain some good 2 up touring qualities. I wouldn't swap the capo for a futura at present but want to buy a futura and then decide which i like the best. I doubt the futura would give me personally the comfort of the capo , as my legs would be too cramped.

have you ever tried one

The Futura is a great bike! I had a long, fast demo on one last year at Americade. If your on the taller side, your correct about the leg room and overall comfort. I'd never choose it over a Capo for my main (2-up touring/sport touring) bike.
Every time I start getting the itch for a second bike, I take a ride on the Capo and think "If I bought something else, how much would I really ride it?"
Im not ruling out getting a second bike eventually.......Track bike.....dual sport..... TUONO..............wife will kill me

[ian-parkes]

The Futura is a great bike! I had a long, fast demo on one last year at Americade. If your on the taller side, your correct about the leg room and overall comfort. I'd never choose it over a Capo for my main (2-up touring/sport touring) bike.
Every time I start getting the itch for a second bike, I take a ride on the Capo and think "If I bought something else, how much would I really ride it?"
Im not ruling out getting a second bike eventually.......Track bike.....dual sport..... TUONO..............wife will kill me

That sums it up "wife will kill me"

My cbr 1000 was no where near as comfy as my capo , and the futura is a similar position . The ability to stand up on the pegs and stretch my legs is great for me on the capo .
However I look at my capo and I have turned it into a sportier road bike . Off road on a big bike here in UK is a non starter as we just don't have the wilderness.
I guess I want to be told the futura is more fun or better than the capo on twisties.
Will have to find a test ride somewhere, not easy especialy as it been discontinued. and thats the second point why is it discontinued ? is there something even better on the way ? or was it just not a great seller . There are lots for sale here at present , do those sellers know something I don't ?

Isn't it frustrating when you get that "itch" for a different bike when you are also in love with the one you have . It feels like Iam about to have an affair,

[ra2bach]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Thanks for your reply.

My view is it is very impressive for the Capo to keep up with the ST4 on a rollon nomatter what the specs are for each bike. Keep in mind this all started at 5,000 rpm or so an not from a standstill.

I never said this in the original post, but down deep and without much to back it up (see below), I think if I cloned myself and the clone rode the ST4 on the exact twistie road I discussed in this post.........the Capo the way I have mine setup would keep up there also.

Actually, I did ride the Capo in these same twisties with the ST4. Results were one of us was waiting at the top of the hill for the other................and the one that got there last was surprised and amazed at what just happened. You can take it from there.

Footnote: The ST4 owner has 30 years of riding experience and brough a 999 to the rally also and as such is not a newbie.

Best

Mike

Mike

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Look, I understand your passion, and remember, I DO own a Caponord which I like very much, but that's honestly not too impressive when you start with a displacement, power, torque, and gearing disadvantage as the ST4 did. you wouldn't compare the Capo against a 900 2-valve ST2 would you? you might as well, though, as they are very similar power wise and on a twisty road, the ST2 has no trouble staying with an ST4.

if you really wanted to do a legitimate comparison, apples to apples, that is, compare the Capo to an ST4s. I'm not trying to criticize the Capo, or you for that matter, but a well set-up ST4s would run off and hide from a Capo just about anywhere except the tightest of roads.

and after just returning from Italy riding a Ducati Multistrada over 1,300K in 5 days, through some of the greatest roads Italy has to offer, http://www.motogiroditalia.com/en/news.html#vittoria I can say without reservation that a Capo wouldn't know which way the Multistrada went after the second or third turn on a tight mountain road. again, I'm not trying to start an arguement or anything, that's just the way it is. the Multistrada is the first bike I have ridden that made me consider trading in my Ducati 996. and that's serious....

and I do love my Capo for what it IS, not for what it isn't.

[ian-parkes]

I think what mike was getting at was
Its the Rider not the bike .
There was surprise that the ST4 wasn't waiting for him .

That is where it stops , I have seen My mate thrash sports 600's on his W650 through twisties .

You can love the capo for what it is .Or love it for what it can be and there is a big difference between the two.
I rode with Jo on his standard capo last week , he was 2 up and I could just keep him in sight on a fast twisty road. he then rode my bike and was gone , because he had the ground clearance and the tyres to suit his ability .

All my mates who are faster than me are also 8 plus years older exept one , so what does that tell you .

As one mate quoted when i wanted a better bike " when you are riding the wheels off that bike , then look for a better one "

the st4s has similar torque to the capo but quoted at 112 bhp , so it should be faster than a capo
Why after all you have said do you think the capo would be faster in the really tight twisties, surely it should be even slower there?

[team222]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Look, I understand your passion, and remember, I DO own a Caponord which I like very much, but that's honestly not too impressive when you start with a displacement, power, torque, and gearing disadvantage as the ST4 did. you wouldn't compare the Capo against a 900 2-valve ST2 would you? you might as well, though, as they are very similar power wise and on a twisty road, the ST2 has no trouble staying with an ST4.

if you really wanted to do a legitimate comparison, apples to apples, that is, compare the Capo to an ST4s. I'm not trying to criticize the Capo, or you for that matter, but a well set-up ST4s would run off and hide from a Capo just about anywhere except the tightest of roads.

and after just returning from Italy riding a Ducati Multistrada over 1,300K in 5 days, through some of the greatest roads Italy has to offer, http://www.motogiroditalia.com/en/news.html#vittoria I can say without reservation that a Capo wouldn't know which way the Multistrada went after the second or third turn on a tight mountain road. again, I'm not trying to start an arguement or anything, that's just the way it is. the Multistrada is the first bike I have ridden that made me consider trading in my Ducati 996. and that's serious....

and I do love my Capo for what it IS, not for what it isn't.

>>>>>>>>>.

I don't have a blind passion for the Capo..........its just a machine and what I happen to be riding now vs all the bikes I have owned over the past 40 years, but this still does not change the facts about what happened. My Capo as setup staye with an ST4 Ducati on a rollon.

There are a few of us that don't have to own 996/998/999s or travel to Italy to know a bit about bikes and fully understand what and why we bought a specific bike like the Capo.... plusssss some of us can understand the potential of a the bike like the Capo that is far beyond the marketing niche the manufacturer and marketing talking heads intended.

My point is very simple.........I was surprised the Capo stayed up with the ST4 on rollons. I guess I was naive and thought for 15k the 112hp ST4 would be stronger on a rollon starting at 5,000 rpm or so....I was wrong.... and admit it now that you have enlighted us with the technicals, though I am still amazed at the result.

>>>>

One of the amazing things about motorcycling is that there are those rare and fun times when things just dont turn out the way most of us think or have been told it should be.

Ian gave good examples and just one example I have is one of the fastest guys at Deals Gap rides a Goldwing which has put plenty of the latest and greatest sport bikes on the trailer .....and I am sure everyone else has many other examples.

Owning the latest, greatest and most expensive bike doesnt ensure one always comes home first because we all know an above average rider on an average bike will always pass a below average rider on an above average bike....it's just the way it is and that might be reason the ST4 also got whupppped going 8 miles up to the Blue Ridge in the twisties and straights..... and again coming down the hill.

>>>>

When I was young no one could go to the dealer and buy a bike like the 996 ......if you wanted a bike like this during that era; you built it yourself or bought a road racer someone else built and slowly set it up to do what you wanted.... and add some lights to make riding it on the street possible

I rode a BSA Goldstar Road Racer on the roads which was rewarding in many ways and here is a story of how it was way back then.

http://www.thumperpage.com/articles/rocket.html

Most importantly during this time, I learned alot about what worked, didnt work and setting bikes up since this was the only option vs buying the latest and greatest speed/handling option via mail order.

I am sure of one thing.........that Goldie and most super singles would leave a Multistrada in the twisties for dead ....and who among us would think that was possible.

Thanks for your comments....I hope you will allow me to disagree with some, but above all else I certainly appreciate you taking the time join this thread with your insight and experiences. Thanks

Are you going to be at Vintage Days?


Mike

[motoman]

16t sprocket makes a big difference on the Capo...

Ducatis are geared way too tall also... wonder if the ST4 had changed the front sprocket and if so would the results be the same?

[ra2bach]

[QUOTE=team222]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There are a few of us that don't have to own 996/998/999s or travel to Italy to know a bit about bikes and fully understand what and why we bought a specific bike like the Capo.... plusssss some of us can understand the potential of a the bike like the Capo that is far beyond the marketing niche the manufacturer and marketing talking heads intended.
My point is very simple.........I was surprised the Capo stayed up with the ST4 on rollons. I guess I was naive and thought for 15k the 112hp ST4 would be stronger on a rollon starting at 5,000 rpm or so....I was wrong.... and admit it now that you have enlighted us with the technicals, though I am still amazed at the result.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Mike, forgive me if I sounded like I was bragging - for in truth I was. I had just returned from the trip of my lifetime - my wife gave me this trip for my 50th birthday - and all I can say is I am still in wonder over the whole thing, so if I sounded like I was gloating a little, please forgive, OK?

However, at the risk of being contentious, my point was even simpler - I would have been astounded IF YOU HADN"T beat the ST4 in a roll-on. The ST4 has a smaller engine (916) is LESS powerful, heavier, and geared higher than the Capo so there should have been no contest. The 112hp figure you quoted, is the claimed hp for the "s" version, a much stronger bike with the 996 motor. That is not the "ST4" which, in the real world, was not much more than the 2-valve ST2 in performance and then ONLY at the upper end.

believe me, I'm not beating up on the Capo - I bought one! I owned BOTH the ST4 and the Capo at the same time, briefly. I bought my Capo while working at MotoBritalia in Atlanta (Hi Ergo!) after lowsiding and waiting for plastic bits to come in for my ST4. I already owned a 996 Superbike and so after riding the Capo for awhile, I decided it did more for me in combination wiht the 996 than the ST4 did, and so I sold the ST4. I still have the Capo and I still have the 996. I also have a 1980 Ducati Darmah which I will be bringing to MidOhio Vintage Days and hope to cross paths with you if it works out.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
One of the amazing things about motorcycling is that there are those rare and fun times when things just dont turn out the way most of us think or have been told it should be.
Ian gave good examples and just one example I have is one of the fastest guys at Deals Gap rides a Goldwing which has put plenty of the latest and greatest sport bikes on the trailer .....and I am sure everyone else has many other examples.
Owning the latest, greatest and most expensive bike doesnt ensure one always comes home first because we all know an above average rider on an average bike will always pass a below average rider on an above average bike....it's just the way it is and that might be reason the ST4 also got whupppped going 8 miles up to the Blue Ridge in the twisties and straights..... and again coming down the hill.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

True. True. But don't believe toooo much about that Goldie at Deals. Yeah, he's notorious, I live in Alpharetta, GA, just south that area, and yeah that guy can embarass squids on those roads but that says more about the general piss-poor skills of the majority of "sport" riders. Trust me, I see it all the time. Most of these wankers are point-and-shoot artists with 1" chicken-strips and they live as legends in their own mind but when they meet up with that particular rider and his familiarity with THAT road, well it's pretty predictable. But honestly, if that Goldie tried to hang with an equal rider on a set-up sport bike, well, I don't care how you spread it, you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
When I was young no one could go to the dealer and buy a bike like the 996 ......if you wanted a bike like this during that era; you built it yourself or bought a road racer someone else built and slowly set it up to do what you wanted.... and add some lights to make riding it on the street possible>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Been There Done That. I started in the late 60's, as everyone did on dirt-bikes, mini-bikes, step-throughs and scooters but I cut my road riding teeth on a 1976 Honda XL250 with "Universal" trials tires. This was the perfect bike for a Bradford County, PA boy to learn how to make a slow bike go fast. I got used to how it felt when those nubs started finger-walking to the outside of a turn cuz the brakes sure as shit wouldn't slow or stop you. Thrown into that mix was a CL, a vicious little RD400, and a couple of CB450 barnyard basketcases married into one working bike until I was able to move up to my first real road bike - a 1980 Honda 750F. Yessir, 549lbs.dryweight, bias ply tires, with all of 75 horsepower, and it was the trickest thing out there at that time for roadcarving.

I raced this bike stock in WERA and AAMRR races in the NorthEast, sometimes in the South, and with 1" extended Works Performance shocks I learned how to grind down the footpegs into nubs, and the engine covers till they leaked oil. Just this weekend while digging around in my parts box, I came across one of my old engine cover screws from that bike, ground down to a bevel. I'll bring it with me to Vintage days.

On the weekend that I threw my F-bike away in turn 4 at Bridgehampton Raceway on Long Island, NY, I had the Pirelli Phanom tires worn down to the cords on the edges. I raced that bike in 24 races that year and trophied 19 times, and all but 3 of those trophies say "National" on them. If this sounds like so much bragging, well, so be it, but I don't think it's a bad thing to establish your bonafides so anyway, this is who I am.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I rode a BSA Goldstar Road Racer on the roads which was rewarding in many ways and here is a story of how it was way back then.
http://www.thumperpage.com/articles/rocket.html >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

well, that's pretty cool, nice article. Motobritalia is also a triumph dealer and we had a Triton and several very sweet bikes of that vintage pass through there. neat bikes but i found myself, early on, worshipping at the altar of the Italian brands - Ducati (pre- cagiva and beyond), Moto-Guzzi, and now Aprilia as well. I still lust for a red '79 CBX, though (shhhhh....)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Most importantly during this time, I learned alot about what worked, didnt work and setting bikes up since this was the only option vs buying the latest and greatest speed/handling option via mail order.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

BTDT. See above.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I am sure of one thing.........that Goldie and most super singles would leave a Multistrada in the twisties for dead ....and who among us would think that was possible.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

aww, Mike! and we were doing so good together until you said that, too... Look, I tried real hard to let that go by but that's just ridiculous! If you had ANY idea what you just said, you wouldn't have said it.

First of all, ***ASSUMING RIDERS OF EQUAL SKILL AND BIKE TUNING AND SET-UP, ETC.*** on any road you want to choose, except maybe a dragstrip or a 4-lane, even an SV650 Suzuki would run off and hide from
either of those bikes. I know, I know, that guy's a legend around there, and yes I know, the older we get the the faster we were, but please, don't say that in knowledgable company or you'll get laughed out of the joint.

Now, just to make it a little easier to visualize, does anyone disagree that a 134hp 996 Racetuned Ducati would have little trouble beating an SV650? No? OK. Well, I can honestly, with a straight face, cross my heart, in front of witnesses and with a loaded gun pointed at my head, tell you, that a Multistrada can show it's ass to said 996 in the mountains.

Believe it! My 996, Ducati's Multistrada at the North American roll-out held in Greenville, TN, same roads, same bikes, same riders, switched bikes, switched riders, whatever. DON'T bet aginst a Multistrada except on a racetrack. Yes, I had the Multistrada on the racetrack and that is not it's element. 3 laps on the circuit at Magione and the DS motor got pulled down the long straight by the 4-valve Superbike motors, but wow, what it does coming off a corner...

Have you ever ridden one, Mike? Hard? As in drifting the tires hard? If you've ever been to the Ducati factory (I have), and ridden with the Ducati factory test riders (I have), and ridden through the same mountain passes - Futa, Borgo - that the Multistrada was conceptualized, designed, and developed in (I have) then it's obvious that there is probably FEW OR NO better bikes for this purpose! (Uhhh, except for maybe a heavily breathed-on Husqvarna 650 Supermoto race-bike-with-lights, that the Italian importer was riding around with us on. That thing was like a pitbull on crack and I never turned my back on it....)

Look, I'm sorry Mike, I'm not trying to be argumentative. But there's opinion, and there's fact and I just can't let something go by that I know to be inaccurate. I mean, I like a good fish-story as much as the next guy but that's why they're funny - the fish GOT AWAY! YOU CAN"T PROVE IT! Well, with these type of statements, it is easy to prove. It's simple to just try it out in the real world instead of supposing something SHOULD be the way you think it should. go ride a Multistrada. I don't feel the need to own one (yet) but it's an awesome motorcycle. no Baloney Sticks...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thanks for your comments....I hope you will allow me to disagree with some, but above all else I certainly appreciate you taking the time join this thread with your insight and experiences. Thanks
Are you going to be at Vintage Days?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

and yes, I will be at Vintage Days so hopefully we can tip a mug and laugh about this, OK?

[team222]

Hi Ra2bach

Thanks for your reply.

I want to meet and talk to you personally and buy you a lunch or supper. What can we do to make this happen at Vintage Days.

I will be at one of these two places

1. CBX Club Display at the Honda Pavilion Building

2. My sons race transporter. He is racing for fun in battle of the twins class on his vintage 916 so he nor any of us expect much so there will be plenty of time to talk. He has a white transporter with blue checker pattern on the front. The bikes will be yellow Ducatis with 916 on them. He has a white Chevy Dually. You might see us around in his golf cart....it has a lift kit!!!!!

I will be sleeping in the transporter so we will be there in the evenings so fail safe will be for you to come over in the evening.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I enjoyed all you had to say and as we agree on 95% I think that isnt too bad now. The Gold Star thing I threw in to stir things up a bit, after all mine only had 38hp-40hp.....you didnt bite as much as I had hoped. I will say this though...a 72hp, 720cc MUZ single cylinder racer by Galen Miller converted for the street would be a real threat in the tight stuff to most modern bikes....I have been talking to him for years on doing this for me...........so far its just talk

As far as CBXs go, I am the Director of the club so there are alot of very nice 79s out there waiting for you that I know about for reasonable prices....some with all the fixes so they actually handle. Me to you ...the 80 CBX is the early model to buy vs the 79 and we can talk about this also. A great 80 with 1100f front and back went for $2500 at the recent National!!!!!!!!!!!

I also want to go over the changes I made on the Capo so far to get your opinion and want to discuss somethings I want to do in the future for your views

I am going to pm you my cell and my sons cell just in case everything else falls apart and we cant find each other.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

See you in a couple of weeks now and dont forget to ask me for a cc of the CBX Member Publication that has some super CBXs, articles and includes a photo of the work in progress CBX V12.


Mike

[QUOTE=ra2bach]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There are a few of us that don't have to own 996/998/999s or travel to Italy to know a bit about bikes and fully understand what and why we bought a specific bike like the Capo.... plusssss some of us can understand the potential of a the bike like the Capo that is far beyond the marketing niche the manufacturer and marketing talking heads intended.
My point is very simple.........I was surprised the Capo stayed up with the ST4 on rollons. I guess I was naive and thought for 15k the 112hp ST4 would be stronger on a rollon starting at 5,000 rpm or so....I was wrong.... and admit it now that you have enlighted us with the technicals, though I am still amazed at the result.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Mike, forgive me if I sounded like I was bragging - for in truth I was. I had just returned from the trip of my lifetime - my wife gave me this trip for my 50th birthday - and all I can say is I am still in wonder over the whole thing, so if I sounded like I was gloating a little, please forgive, OK?

However, at the risk of being contentious, my point was even simpler - I would have been astounded IF YOU HADN"T beat the ST4 in a roll-on. The ST4 has a smaller engine (916) is LESS powerful, heavier, and geared higher than the Capo so there should have been no contest. The 112hp figure you quoted, is the claimed hp for the "s" version, a much stronger bike with the 996 motor. That is not the "ST4" which, in the real world, was not much more than the 2-valve ST2 in performance and then ONLY at the upper end.

believe me, I'm not beating up on the Capo - I bought one! I owned BOTH the ST4 and the Capo at the same time, briefly. I bought my Capo while working at MotoBritalia in Atlanta (Hi Ergo!) after lowsiding and waiting for plastic bits to come in for my ST4. I already owned a 996 Superbike and so after riding the Capo for awhile, I decided it did more for me in combination wiht the 996 than the ST4 did, and so I sold the ST4. I still have the Capo and I still have the 996. I also have a 1980 Ducati Darmah which I will be bringing to MidOhio Vintage Days and hope to cross paths with you if it works out.

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One of the amazing things about motorcycling is that there are those rare and fun times when things just dont turn out the way most of us think or have been told it should be.
Ian gave good examples and just one example I have is one of the fastest guys at Deals Gap rides a Goldwing which has put plenty of the latest and greatest sport bikes on the trailer .....and I am sure everyone else has many other examples.
Owning the latest, greatest and most expensive bike doesnt ensure one always comes home first because we all know an above average rider on an average bike will always pass a below average rider on an above average bike....it's just the way it is and that might be reason the ST4 also got whupppped going 8 miles up to the Blue Ridge in the twisties and straights..... and again coming down the hill.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

True. True. But don't believe toooo much about that Goldie at Deals. Yeah, he's notorious, I live in Alpharetta, GA, just south that area, and yeah that guy can embarass squids on those roads but that says more about the general piss-poor skills of the majority of "sport" riders. Trust me, I see it all the time. Most of these wankers are point-and-shoot artists with 1" chicken-strips and they live as legends in their own mind but when they meet up with that particular rider and his familiarity with THAT road, well it's pretty predictable. But honestly, if that Goldie tried to hang with an equal rider on a set-up sport bike, well, I don't care how you spread it, you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit...

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When I was young no one could go to the dealer and buy a bike like the 996 ......if you wanted a bike like this during that era; you built it yourself or bought a road racer someone else built and slowly set it up to do what you wanted.... and add some lights to make riding it on the street possible>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Been There Done That. I started in the late 60's, as everyone did on dirt-bikes, mini-bikes, step-throughs and scooters but I cut my road riding teeth on a 1976 Honda XL250 with "Universal" trials tires. This was the perfect bike for a Bradford County, PA boy to learn how to make a slow bike go fast. I got used to how it felt when those nubs started finger-walking to the outside of a turn cuz the brakes sure as shit wouldn't slow or stop you. Thrown into that mix was a CL, a vicious little RD400, and a couple of CB450 barnyard basketcases married into one working bike until I was able to move up to my first real road bike - a 1980 Honda 750F. Yessir, 549lbs.dryweight, bias ply tires, with all of 75 horsepower, and it was the trickest thing out there at that time for roadcarving.

I raced this bike stock in WERA and AAMRR races in the NorthEast, sometimes in the South, and with 1" extended Works Performance shocks I learned how to grind down the footpegs into nubs, and the engine covers till they leaked oil. Just this weekend while digging around in my parts box, I came across one of my old engine cover screws from that bike, ground down to a bevel. I'll bring it with me to Vintage days.

On the weekend that I threw my F-bike away in turn 4 at Bridgehampton Raceway on Long Island, NY, I had the Pirelli Phanom tires worn down to the cords on the edges. I raced that bike in 24 races that year and trophied 19 times, and all but 3 of those trophies say "National" on them. If this sounds like so much bragging, well, so be it, but I don't think it's a bad thing to establish your bonafides so anyway, this is who I am.

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I rode a BSA Goldstar Road Racer on the roads which was rewarding in many ways and here is a story of how it was way back then.
http://www.thumperpage.com/articles/rocket.html >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

well, that's pretty cool, nice article. Motobritalia is also a triumph dealer and we had a Triton and several very sweet bikes of that vintage pass through there. neat bikes but i found myself, early on, worshipping at the altar of the Italian brands - Ducati (pre- cagiva and beyond), Moto-Guzzi, and now Aprilia as well. I still lust for a red '79 CBX, though (shhhhh....)

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Most importantly during this time, I learned alot about what worked, didnt work and setting bikes up since this was the only option vs buying the latest and greatest speed/handling option via mail order.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

BTDT. See above.

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I am sure of one thing.........that Goldie and most super singles would leave a Multistrada in the twisties for dead ....and who among us would think that was possible.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

aww, Mike! and we were doing so good together until you said that, too... Look, I tried real hard to let that go by but that's just ridiculous! If you had ANY idea what you just said, you wouldn't have said it.

First of all, ***ASSUMING RIDERS OF EQUAL SKILL AND BIKE TUNING AND SET-UP, ETC.*** on any road you want to choose, except maybe a dragstrip or a 4-lane, even an SV650 Suzuki would run off and hide from
either of those bikes. I know, I know, that guy's a legend around there, and yes I know, the older we get the the faster we were, but please, don't say that in knowledgable company or you'll get laughed out of the joint.

Now, just to make it a little easier to visualize, does anyone disagree that a 134hp 996 Racetuned Ducati would have little trouble beating an SV650? No? OK. Well, I can honestly, with a straight face, cross my heart, in front of witnesses and with a loaded gun pointed at my head, tell you, that a Multistrada can show it's ass to said 996 in the mountains.

Believe it! My 996, Ducati's Multistrada at the North American roll-out held in Greenville, TN, same roads, same bikes, same riders, switched bikes, switched riders, whatever. DON'T bet aginst a Multistrada except on a racetrack. Yes, I had the Multistrada on the racetrack and that is not it's element. 3 laps on the circuit at Magione and the DS motor got pulled down the long straight by the 4-valve Superbike motors, but wow, what it does coming off a corner...

Have you ever ridden one, Mike? Hard? As in drifting the tires hard? If you've ever been to the Ducati factory (I have), and ridden with the Ducati factory test riders (I have), and ridden through the same mountain passes - Futa, Borgo - that the Multistrada was conceptualized, designed, and developed in (I have) then it's obvious that there is probably FEW OR NO better bikes for this purpose! (Uhhh, except for maybe a heavily breathed-on Husqvarna 650 Supermoto race-bike-with-lights, that the Italian importer was riding around with us on. That thing was like a pitbull on crack and I never turned my back on it....)

Look, I'm sorry Mike, I'm not trying to be argumentative. But there's opinion, and there's fact and I just can't let something go by that I know to be inaccurate. I mean, I like a good fish-story as much as the next guy but that's why they're funny - the fish GOT AWAY! YOU CAN"T PROVE IT! Well, with these type of statements, it is easy to prove. It's simple to just try it out in the real world instead of supposing something SHOULD be the way you think it should. go ride a Multistrada. I don't feel the need to own one (yet) but it's an awesome motorcycle. no Baloney Sticks...

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Thanks for your comments....I hope you will allow me to disagree with some, but above all else I certainly appreciate you taking the time join this thread with your insight and experiences. Thanks
Are you going to be at Vintage Days?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

and yes, I will be at Vintage Days so hopefully we can tip a mug and laugh about this, OK?

[Ergo]

Hey Ray!


Oh, and Mike too!