Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 163

Thread: The Last Ride

  1. #16
    apriliaforum Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    El Cajon, CA
    Posts
    115
    Originally posted by tuono-rider
    I am convinced that starting when you are very young on dirt bikes/motocross will have a tremendous benefit laying down "muscle memory" for learning how to corner & brake etc... also if you go down it is less consequential than on the street... that was my experience anyway. I did a lot of trail riding as a kid/early teenager. When it was time to get on a street bike, both the capability & the respect were already in tow.....Even with that history I still took riding classes to 'finish' & even though much of it was common sense & easy, I do not regret what it re-enforced....
    I also agree that starting on dirt bikes provided the ground work for my asphault education. You learn when and how to react to adverse conditions as well as what happens with limited traction. I'm sure it helped that I learned back before disk brakes. Stopping was not an option. Avoid, Jump over or ride through was the plan. It taught you to think fast.

  2. #17
    apriliaforum expert Axecent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    9,281

    Dirt Bikes

    I am 51 years old, and I just finished building an old school MX track on 16 acres next to my house. I haven't used anything bigger than my Honda CRF 150 F, I have hit the ground about 5 times hard, and have learned SO MUCH that I know it has saved my bacon on the asphalt race track twice since I started training earlier this summer. And as hard as I have fallen, it has not resulted in any injuries a couple of Ibuprofen couldn't take care of.

    Rich Oliver swears by this training. Walker also teaches from this discipline. I have started telling newbies to go for the dirt bike for at least a year or two, then move to a 400 or 600. DON'T go out and by a new GSXR 1000/R-1/ZX 10R/CBR1000RR as your first BIKE!

    The dirt is where I started back in 75'....on my Ossa Stilletto!

  3. #18
    apriliaforum expert vito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    austin, texas
    Posts
    20,533
    i had forgotten about ossa. didn't they also make something called a 'plonker?'


  4. #19
    apriliaforum expert Axecent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    9,281

    Vito

    Hey, my Ossa had a 4.60 knobby on the back, and I hand crafted an aluminum intake to bolt a 34 MM Mikuni to it. I had a guy design and build the expansion chamber. I bet it made 35 HP! For its day, it was a sweet ride, and nothing looked cooler. I wish I still had it....

    I got your plonker....

  5. #20
    apriliaforum expert vito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    austin, texas
    Posts
    20,533

  6. #21
    apriliaforum expert Axecent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    9,281

    Vito

    You know, Austin ain't too far from where I live. I may just have to come over there and we can settle this matter over a stoge and a single malt....

  7. #22
    apriliaforum expert curvecrazy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Buffalo New York
    Posts
    721
    I agree about the dirtbikes. Definitely the best riding simulator available. I disagree about making conclusions from these studies. Because these studies are misleading.

    Why? Because we are talking subjective analysis here. You have a police officer who doesn't necessarily know anything about bikes. He shows up on scene and makes his assessment. This assessment is often total garbage.

    For example, my friend died when he came around a turn in the road and hit gravel. The bike went completely sideways in the span of the next 8 or so feet before catching traction and snapping back the other way... highsiding him off down the road and unfortunately killing him in the process. This situation was particularly deadly because the road dropped away to the right so my friends headlights could not illuminate the hazard. Somebody had built a house there and a long gravel drive up the hill. For at least two years, every time it rained the gravel would wash out into and across the road just below the crest of the turn. An ongoing scenario that DOT and locals had not addressed. It was so bad the gravel was all the way down the hill on the other side of the road... for the most part more than an inch deep down the opposite neighbors property. That resident said he had been complaining about the situation for over a year... seeing the situation as a hazard but also tired of having the gravel across his driveway and lawn.

    So my friend came along, not aware of that situation of course, on an unfamiliar road at night, and muddled right into oblivion. The situation sucked him in cause there are streetlights further down the road to show you where the road goes. The mind just fills in the section of road underneath the rise(a short section of road thats outta visual) that your headlight fails to illuminate. Even the most experienced rider could have fallen prey to this... and another rider had actually died on the same curve a year before as a matter of fact. They claimed his was due to alcohol.. I have my doubts.

    So do you think the genius's(state police accident investigators them) were able to figure out the cause of the accident? They concluded excessive speed. They made no mention whatsoever of the heavy patch of gravel that Dominic passed directly across partially leaned over and subsequently lost control. The skid mark originating there and then the obvious(to me anyway) highside marks followed. Instead... they measured the distance from the first skid mark they found on the pavement to the point where he ended up in the ditch and claimed to slide that far he had to have been speeding.
    This was stupidity at its finest! Or was it? My guess is they were actually trying to protect the powers that be from a lawsuit. This was and is total bullshit. Do they have a coefficient of friction for a sliding sportbike made of plastic and metal? Do they have facts to base their conclusion on>? No. Very misleading and... well..... wrong!

    Another friend died and they(same pair of jackasses again) said that he was speeding excessively. He came around a corner and a guy in a jeep turned in front of him. Guy never saw him at all... just a flash of light at the last instant. There were no skid marks whatsoever. My friend had no opportunity to apply the brakes at all. This nitwit turned right into him. The guy in the jeep lived up the road a few miles. He was returning from town in a rural area. He had no reason to turn at that side street which was more of a dirt road. My thoughts is the guy went into town to do some errands and on the way back realized he forgot something. He was probably already distracted and made a quick turnoff there without really taking the time to properly look. He may not have been looking at the road at all for the few seconds leading up to that decision. When he did look(if he did look?), Brian could very well have been in his blind spot. I do know he didn't turn there.. on a street where he doesn't live for his health. He was headed home and decided to turn around for some reason which we may never know. He turned right into Brian. The police claimed Brian was speeding, without considering the possibility that the nitwit in the jeep was distracted and/or maybe didn't recognize Brian in the first place. They didn't even charge him with failure to yield the right of way for christs sakes. Furthermore, the distance Brian slid after the accident did not support the excessive rate of speed conclusions made at all.

    So. My point is this. Take those report findings with a grain of salt cause thats about the valu they bring to the table. Many times police and investigators either don't know enough about motorcycles to begin with or they have preconceived notions. God help you if your wearing full leathers. You are racing on the street. These two jackass investigators said that to me when I was questioning them at the scene. Ignorance anyone? They even tried to tell me that by checking what gear he was in they could help ascertain how fast he was going! I'm like what? He was on an R1 which could doddle at 40mph in top gear or be going 168mph in top gear. Conclusive? No. Helpful? Try again. Fuckwits. I am sure Brian is rolling around in his grave over their conclusions. And his mom cannot be consoled. And thats right, the nitwit in the jeep never even called Brians mom to express remorse or sympathy. Disappointed is me. btw... both of these boyz were wearing their full leather suits when they died.

    So be careful what you believe. I analyze any and all accidents in our group, including my own and any I come across so I can learn the lessons applicable myself. I go to great length to discover/uncover the facts. I wish accident investigators would be as thorough. That is, after all.... their job!

    Anyways. For you guys that have been the victims of target fixation. Realize, you don't just learn it away through experience. This is a natural reaction of the body. It will happen to you again if you ride a lot. Such is to be human. Even the smallest distraction or unexpected event can break your concentration and lead to this phenomena. And none of us can think fast enough to think past it if the situation is right. Sometimes maybe. All times? No. fwiw. It has happened to me many times and I am very experience and capable too. Its as easy as someone left turning directly in front of you on the highway. You don't need to be riding too fast for there to be too little space for your mind to manage. The result is target fixation at the worst possible time. It can happen to you as it has me.
    Last edited by curvecrazy; 12-15-2004 at 09:01 PM.

  8. #23
    apriliaforum expert Axecent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    9,281

    curve crazy

    You may be interested in looking at the new Cycle World article on the independent motorcycle accident reconstruction expert. Hi company, name, and reconstruction software are all mentioned in the article. The families of the victims of this situation you described might appreciate his review of the scene and the accident reports.

  9. #24
    apriliaforum expert curvecrazy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Buffalo New York
    Posts
    721
    I appreciate that and will check it out. Thank you.

  10. #25
    apriliaforum expert vito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    austin, texas
    Posts
    20,533

    Re: Vito

    Originally posted by Axecent
    You know, Austin ain't too far from where I live. I may just have to come over there and we can settle this matter over a stoge and a single malt....
    bring it on!!

    i had to type in 'ossa' to a search engine just to make sure i didn't imagine the name 'plonker' in some '70's purple haze.


  11. #26
    apriliaforum expert Axecent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    9,281

    vito...70's???

    70's Purple haze? Well, the quote of my generation was:

    "If you remember the 60's, you weren't there".


    My high school reunion featured the Moving Sidewalks. They subsequently changed their name to ZZ Top. They were truly a Jimi Hendrix tribute band, in preparation for opening for Hendrix in 3 gigs in Texas. Gibbons was a hoot, but Joe Blues was the hit of the night for me. It was the true genesis of the ZZ Top sound. By the third or fourth album, I moved on (wow, who is this guy Frank Zappa?) because it wasn't new anymore, but you should pick up 99th floor, their Sidewalks debut (and only) album if you like to remember purple haze...

    CIAO!

    CMRA #310 Nov

  12. #27
    apriliaforum expert vito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    austin, texas
    Posts
    20,533
    vito...70's???

    ok, ok if you're going to hook me up to the lie detector it could apply to the 60's too. but between the drug damage of the 60's and the alzheimer of the 00's, i can't remember much of anything. just the occasional lucid moment flashback.


  13. #28
    apriliaforum expert williamr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Cheshire, England
    Posts
    9,147
    In the UK we have a fairly onerous system of training and tests before anyone gets a license to ride a big (over 33 bhp) bike.

    It still doesn't help when our guy takes his new license, buys a Ducati, which is a demanding ride anyway, and overcooks a turn.

    It certainly does nothing for the guy who last rode a bike 20 years ago as he still has license, and UK has a lot of middle aged returnees. The good news is that many of these guys (although they won't admit it) are scared of the bikes, don't ride in poor weather, avoid traffic, and clock up at most 2000 miles a year. At least it keeps the accident figures down a bit.

    I live near to the officialy most dangerous road in England, the Cat & Fiddle pass. It's a beautiful road for bikers, but too many who aren't as good as they think they are end up dead on it. Take out the bike accident figures and it actually drops off the dangerous road league table

    So how do we keep new bikers and returnees alive until they've got some experience? Our licensing system works for new bikers, except that kids are mad by definition, but for the older guys.........?

  14. #29
    apriliaforum expert williamr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Cheshire, England
    Posts
    9,147
    In the UK we have a fairly onerous system of training and tests before anyone gets a license to ride a big (over 33 bhp) bike.

    It still doesn't help when our guy takes his new license, buys a Ducati, which is a demanding ride anyway, and overcooks a turn.

    It certainly does nothing for the guy who last rode a bike 20 years ago as he still has license, and UK has a lot of middle aged returnees. The good news is that many of these guys (although they won't admit it) are scared of the bikes, don't ride in poor weather, avoid traffic, and clock up at most 2000 miles a year. At least it keeps the accident figures down a bit.

    I live near to the officialy most dangerous road in England, the Cat & Fiddle pass. It's a beautiful road for bikers, but too many who aren't as good as they think they are end up dead on it. Take out the bike accident figures and it actually drops off the dangerous road league table

    So how do we keep new bikers and returnees alive until they've got some experience? Our licensing system works for new bikers, except that kids are mad by definition, but for the older guys.........?

  15. #30
    apriliaforum Member 1bigdawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    110
    I wish there was an easy answer as to how to educate. I commute everyday as long as it is not raining. Although it is not a long commute each day I try observe my riding.

    As Keith Codes states in Chapter 2 of A Twist of the Wrist;

    "The rider's ultimate weapon is his/her ability to perform the actions of riding, and to be able to observe and remember what he/she has done. This is key to improvement."

    "The only way to make changes in your riding is to change what was done. To do that you have to know exactly what was done, not what wasn't. You did what you did . Don't fall into the trap of trying to correct your riding by looking at what you didn't do. This leaves nothing to change. "I don't brake late enough in Turn Two" sounds innocent enough, but what information does it contain for you to improve? If you say instead " I started braking at the asphalt patch just before the number three marker, and now I know I can brake even later than that," you know what was done and now have something to change.

    I use the technique each day of observing and changing just on my simple short commutes. When I go around a corner, I observe where I am focusing my vision and if I don't like the the place I exited. I know where I looked and exited and the next day I look at a different point to change my exit.

    I know that vision is the key but I have found a small change (and I mean small) has an effect on the exit of a corner or even when you are going straight. Since I am riding in the city and there are lines to focus on. I have found that focusing on the line or approximately 6" on either side of the line will make a difference in my exit on a corner. Three separate exits, 1 if I look at the line, 1 if I look 6" inside the line and the last if I look 6" outside the line. Now the place I exit may be minimal in relationship to each other but there is a difference and sometime you just need a few more inches in one direction or another.

    The combination of vision and observing is a powerful tool to learn how to make positive changes without the knowledge of what has happen it is a Keith says you do not know what to change.

    More later.
    I ride a Red 2003 Falco
    Wife rides a Silver 2003 Falco

Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •