Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Are the new Griso 8V 1200's okay?

  1. #1
    apriliaforum prov-nov peace maker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    70

    Are the new Griso 8V 1200's okay?

    Looking at trading my 2004 Aprilia RSV1000 Factory in on a 2014 Griso 1200 8V SE with 5,000kms.

    After reading about the horrors of the flat tappets is this model immune from any major issues?

    It is stock and listening to it struggling to idle for a few seconds I assume it needs a map update. Is that something you can just walk into the dealer and have done?

    Any other problems to look out for?

    Thanks
    2004 Aprilia RSV1000R Factory - Map 2, updated ECU map, PC3, Akrapovics, K&N air filter, Ricks's heavy duty stator, sh755 rectifier, T12 stator oil cooling kit, updated temp sensor, CBR1000 side stand, Ducati 1098 rear master cylinder.

    2012 Kawasaki Z1000 - GP series titanium Akrapovic slip ons

  2. #2
    apriliaforum expert
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Baltimore, Md
    Posts
    1,406
    The later ones, like 2014, should all have roller tappets. I have not heard of a roller tappet Griso having valve train issues. It should be pretty much stone reliable.
    They do tend to need a little fettling, a little tuning and set up, to get them perfect. I would not hesitate to buy one. But then I already own four.

  3. #3
    apriliaforum expert pete roper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,416
    A 2014 will be a roller motor and should be bulletproof. If it's struggling to start and idle though there is something amiss with it. There are no factory map updates, all Griso's since about the middle of 2010, (From memory.) use the GRS8V-03 map which is OK but really pretty pedestrian, it shouldn't cause any running issues though.

    Things to check really carefully are the paint on the throttle stop screw on the RH throttle body and the locknuts of the two ball joints of the linkage rod that goes between the two of them. Despite a W5AM Guzzi being the simplest bike on the planet to tune even now, thirteen years on from the system being adopted, there are still plenty of shops that don't have a clue how to do it! One of the commonest mistakes is trying to lower the idle speed by fiddling with the throttle stop screw and if this is done it creates a world of pain. Idle speed is hard coded into the ECU and controlled by an air over idle system with a stepper motor. It is adjustable but only within the map, not by fiddling with the throttle bodies! The simple fact is they are supposed to idle at 1,250 +/- 50 and some 'Old School' Guzzi mechanics think this is too high and *fiddle* with disastrous results.

    As stated the stock map is OK but uninspiring. Maps have been developed, right here in Australia, that will knock your socks off. Other things that will need addressing on a new bike besides a decent tune up will be greasing the swingarm bearings and shock linkage bearings. They don't seem to have a grease pot in Mandello, or if they do it's been around since before WW2 and its damn near empty! Really, they'll be as dry as a nun's nasty, they all are.

    If you want any more help or advice PM me or gimme a call tomorrow in business hours. I run a Guzzi servicing and tuning business in NSW and we are the 8V evangelists! 0417 462 440

    Pete
    Professional Goat Burster.

  4. #4
    apriliaforum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    VANCOUVER
    Posts
    147
    I just have to pipe in here, that the Griso is a fantastic bike. I owned one when returning to motorcycling a few years ago and loved that bike. For a dinosaur of an engine, it has amazing character (and pull!) as it comes on the cam at about 7k... it really does scoot. I will own another.... Mine was an '09, had a new engine under warranty at 700 kms due to the valve train issue, and I put about 20k KM's on it after that. At about 15k it started to run shitty, poor idle and roughness at low rpm etc.. Was simply the throttle bodies being quite filthy and requiring cleaning... took the tech a couple hours and she ran like a top. Only mention it because I was surprised at the low KM's when it occurred.
    Oh yeah, it also dyno'd at 101 hp with nothing other than a slip on.

  5. #5
    apriliaforum prov-nov peace maker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    70
    Great advice and feedback, much appreciated. These AF1 forums are full of knowledgeable helpful people. Saw your YouTube video on the tappets too Pete, well done mate.

    I'll see if I can do a deal. Might have to sell the RSV privately first though.
    2004 Aprilia RSV1000R Factory - Map 2, updated ECU map, PC3, Akrapovics, K&N air filter, Ricks's heavy duty stator, sh755 rectifier, T12 stator oil cooling kit, updated temp sensor, CBR1000 side stand, Ducati 1098 rear master cylinder.

    2012 Kawasaki Z1000 - GP series titanium Akrapovic slip ons

  6. #6
    apriliaforum expert pete roper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,416
    Quote Originally Posted by YVRFACTORY View Post
    I just have to pipe in here, that the Griso is a fantastic bike. I owned one when returning to motorcycling a few years ago and loved that bike. For a dinosaur of an engine, it has amazing character (and pull!) as it comes on the cam at about 7k... it really does scoot. I will own another.... Mine was an '09, had a new engine under warranty at 700 kms due to the valve train issue, and I put about 20k KM's on it after that. At about 15k it started to run shitty, poor idle and roughness at low rpm etc.. Was simply the throttle bodies being quite filthy and requiring cleaning... took the tech a couple hours and she ran like a top. Only mention it because I was surprised at the low KM's when it occurred.
    Oh yeah, it also dyno'd at 101 hp with nothing other than a slip on.
    Just to correct a couple of misconceptions the motor does not 'Come on the cam' at about 7,000. On the early bikes the mapping was so shitty that they ran really poorly up to about 6.5K and then there was a big 'Kick in the pants' as it finally started fueling half way decently, (Note I say half way!). There is also a whole lot of old tosh talked about different camshaft profiles with a common fallacy being that the earlier engines had 'Hotter' cams making them more powerful. In fact it soon becomes obvious that all the flat tappet Griso cams are identical in profile. The reason they had different part numbers was because they changed the method of controlling end float! It has nothing to do with the profile! All irrelevant though because the flat tappet top ends all fail, without exception. The roller cams of necessity have a different profile but these do not seem to have a deleterious effect on performance with my local mapping expert regularly running his 1200 to 9,000rpm simply because it allowed him to do 200kph in 4th gear! Nothing escaped out of the heads or cases! Now the same bike is running our 1400 motor the limiter is set at a more conservative 8,250. Apart from anything else there is nothing really to be gained by taking the motor higher than that as the VE drops off sharply as revs rise and is downright woeful over 8! The 1400 also necks juice like a Sydney slapper hitting the pre-mixes in Kings Cross on a Saturday night! Use it with vigor and the fuel light will come on solid at 160km! Damn the Griso's tiny tank!

    The 8V mill is not about outright power. If you want that? Buy a Tuono! As a road bike the Griso is second to none though with torque aplenty from next to zero rpm all the way to the limiter. The 1400 will pull down the side of a house!

    Oh, should of proof read it more closely! The fouling of the throttle bodies is another common symptom of incorrect maintenance. If you fill virtually any Guzzi big block over 850cc to the 'Full' mark on the dipstick it will pressurise the case and puke out a swag of oil into the airbox as it overwhelms the condenser system. The trick is to never fill them higher than half way between the 'Add' and 'Full' marks on the stick and let them find their own level. As long as it doesn't drop off the end of the stick it's fine, there's plenty of oil in the motor. If you keep 'Topping it up' it'll keep puking it out and you end up with filthy throttle bodies and sometimes a clogged and misbehaving stepper motor.

    Last time I cleaned mine on either my Griso or Stelvio was 20,000 ago and both bikes have done about 120,000km. I reckon if I pull them off every 40,000 for a bit of a scrub it will keep them fresh but plenty of other bike I see have rarely or ever had them cleaned properly but I've beaten their owners into submission with the 'Don't keep filling it up!' Mantra.

    Pete
    Last edited by pete roper; 12-28-2017 at 05:33 PM.
    Professional Goat Burster.

  7. #7
    apriliaforum Junkie
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    300
    Quick question here Pete, if the Griso cam has shed loads of overlap then is it possible to replace that with a cam with one that does not?
    And if the replacement is at all possible then does it show any improvement? (Like fuel consumption,VE, power etc.)

    Cheers.

  8. #8
    apriliaforum expert pete roper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,416
    Apart from a few nutters in Germany who still produce aftermarket 'Wunda Cams' for the flat tappet bikes in the mistaken belief that the earlier cams were better and 'More powerful' the whole thing is a dead issue. The main limiting factor with the 8V is similar to that that limits the Herron head smallblocks. While the combustion chamber is a modern miracle the fact remains it's a side draught head with a very narrow included valve angle. Gas inertia combined with the long overlap means that VE will never be brilliant and will, (Generally, there are harmonics at play too.) get worse as the engine's speed rises.

    Cam timing is always a matter of compromises and the oddball profiles chosen by the factory are, I presume, used so they could crack the *Claimed* 100hp Mark which is seen by some, (Many?) as important.[In fact I've found all the 8V's in flat tappet form produced an identical 96hp on the dyno in stock trim.].

    The above mentioned Germans are also prone to claiming absolutely stupid HP and Torque figures for their Carburetted 8V motors and because of their type approval laws they bung these things into old Tonti frames with a helically cut five speed behind them and a Tonti bevelbox designed for 60-70hp and commensurate torque figures.

    If they were indeed producing anything like the figures they claim the end thrust on the gearbox shafts would burst the gearboxes like a rotten watermelon and the pinion teeth would strip in a week but it doesn't stop the ludicrous claims! I sometimes laugh so hard a bit of wee comes out!

    At the end of the day the stock roller cams work just fine as a compromise. I'm sure if I had unlimited funds and a better knowledge of roller cam design I could rustle up a different cam profile that *might* increase peak power if coupled with the correct mapping etc. but it would be a typical 'Swings and roundabouts' type thing. Looking at the heads I'd say the more you chase peak power the higher up the rev range you'll move the max torque point and you'll gut what makes the Guzzi 8V such a charismatic motor. As I keep saying, if you want 130HP? Buy a Tuono!

    All our work is aimed at making the 8V better at what it's already good at. We make no stupid claims about huge power increases but when we are happy we'll take the 1400 to the dyno and I feel the torque curve will speak for itself.

    Pete
    Professional Goat Burster.

  9. #9
    apriliaforum prov-nov
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    58
    Happy New Year, Pete Roper!

    Your contributions here are valued. For my Griso learning, I read you as I would Kevin Cameron regarding Yamaha TZ750s. (Please take that as a compliment!)

    I love my '06 Griso 1100. It's a fantastic motorcycle and I like it more each time I ride it.

  10. #10
    apriliaforum Junkie
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    300
    Hey Pete,
    Ever looked at those drum chargers for big block use?
    They would seem ideal if they could be placed somewhere neat and tidy.
    Chris.

  11. #11
    apriliaforum expert pete roper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,416
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Wilson View Post
    Hey Pete,
    Ever looked at those drum chargers for big block use?
    They would seem ideal if they could be placed somewhere neat and tidy.
    Chris.
    ? Sorry? More information.
    Professional Goat Burster.

  12. #12
    apriliaforum Junkie
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    300
    Probably best in its own thread but here is what I am on about.
    https://www.bikebandit.com/blog/post...actually-works

  13. #13
    apriliaforum expert pete roper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,416
    Excellent. I'd rather stab myself in the scrotum with a toasting fork. Sure it's simple, it will be jumped upon by simpletons.
    Professional Goat Burster.

Similar Threads

  1. So what are the new bike rumors for 09???
    By arcangel in forum SL1000 Falco Forum (all years)
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: 08-16-2008, 08:54 PM
  2. the new italian VT-1200 standard
    By olie in forum Aprilia News and Product Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-18-2006, 09:30 PM
  3. Where are the new STs?
    By Jerry in forum RST1000 Futura (all years)
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 10-17-2005, 04:19 PM
  4. MG Release The New Griso
    By morelli in forum General Motorcycle Talk
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 09-26-2005, 04:39 PM
  5. where are the new Tuneboy MAPS!?!?
    By antnate in forum RST1000 Futura (all years)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-23-2004, 10:07 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •