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Thread: Automated Vehicles

  1. #1
    apriliaforum expert ChrisE's Avatar
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    Automated Vehicles

    Currently in my garage
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    '15 Ducati Panigale 1299S
    '15 Ducati Multistrada S (White)
    '12 Aprilia Tuono APRC (Yellow)
    '98 Yamaha R1
    '93 Bimota Db2
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    My Sons bikes
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    apriliaforum expert CRMNL's Avatar
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    phone is not liking revzilla. have to read that later.
    hubris-that's the game with the blocks, right?

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    apriliaforum expert craigo298er's Avatar
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    great...now we have to ride like everyone and every thing is trying to kill us

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    apriliaforum Member matttthemingus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigo298er View Post
    great...now we have to ride like everyone and every thing is trying to kill us
    So no change then.
    2015 RSV4 APRC R ABS

  5. #5
    Writus Moderatus budoist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRMNL View Post
    phone is not liking revzilla. have to read that later.
    Critical summation:

    Quote Originally Posted by Revzilla


    Around the time that Norwegian was getting rear ended by the Tesla, John started taking his VFR up to the company’s Bakersfield strip. On days when there was still time available after the conclusion of NHTSA tests, and while the subject vehicles were all still datalogged, they simulated the NHTSA test using the VFR as the “principal other vehicle” (instead of the usual target, a Honda Accord.)
    The results, as he wrote to me in an email, “might scare you.”
    Basically, in testing over half a dozen different cars from various manufacturers, the FCW systems failed about 40 percent of the time. That compares to a typical failure rate of about 4 percent in simulations involving the Accord.

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    apriliaforum expert drift's Avatar
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    Great article - thanks for posting. Not surprising that the regulatory bodies are ignoring motorcycles.

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    There’s an upside with autopilot and self driving vehicles in that the liability for the accident is partly shifted to the manufacturer as opposed to only the at fault vehicle operator. In the US, it’s very easy to max out the at fault party’s liability coverage in medical bills alone, then you have to sue and probably max out their homeowners liability coverage with the remaining legal bills, time out of work, etc. and still come up short. In the US, putting the manufacturer into the mix since they offered an autopilot mode that encouraged innattentive vehicle operation now puts millions on the line in the event the inured party sues the manufacturer with the likely end result they’ll simply settle out of court for a few million. Since many cagers are inattentive anyway, whether an autopilot mode, texting, surfing on the internet, talking on the phone, or just plain not awake, you’d probably have the same chances of being rear ended by a “regular” car as an autopilot or autonomous one.

    I’ve always wondered if those semi-autonomous self brake systems would be able to detect a motorcycle in time and had always assumed they couldn’t safely.

    Here’s an interesting thought: If the autonomous and self braking technology relies on the bumper mounted radar to detect an object and distance, could one simply deploy chaff on the highway to fool such a system into jamming on the brakes? Like if a cager in a new Mercedes was following too closely, just pop your chaff canister and watch them grind to a halt in the middle of the highway. Hmm, I’ve got a bunch of aluminum shavings in the garage floor and some black powder laying around.
    Last edited by benton0311; 11-26-2017 at 07:28 PM.

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    apriliaforum expert yzr750's Avatar
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    I spent a few years working R&D on autonomous mining vehicles. The more you spend on the detection technology the more reliable it becomes, the cost of the technology we were using on a single vehicle would have been enough to buy about 75 Tesla's outright and it still wasn't 100% reliable...........
    seesecurity.com.au

  9. #9
    apriliaforum expert ChrisE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benton0311 View Post
    There’s an upside with autopilot and self driving vehicles in that the liability for the accident is partly shifted to the manufacturer as opposed to only the at fault vehicle operator. In the US, it’s very easy to max out the at fault party’s liability coverage in medical bills alone, then you have to sue and probably max out their homeowners liability coverage with the remaining legal bills, time out of work, etc. and still come up short. In the US, putting the manufacturer into the mix since they offered an autopilot mode that encouraged innattentive vehicle operation now puts millions on the line in the event the inured party sues the manufacturer with the likely end result they’ll simply settle out of court for a few million. Since many cagers are inattentive anyway, whether an autopilot mode, texting, surfing on the internet, talking on the phone, or just plain not awake, you’d probably have the same chances of being rear ended by a “regular” car as an autopilot or autonomous one.

    I’ve always wondered if those semi-autonomous self brake systems would be able to detect a motorcycle in time and had always assumed they couldn’t safely.

    Here’s an interesting thought: If the autonomous and self braking technology relies on the bumper mounted radar to detect an object and distance, could one simply deploy chaff on the highway to fool such a system into jamming on the brakes? Like if a cager in a new Mercedes was following too closely, just pop your chaff canister and watch them grind to a halt in the middle of the highway. Hmm, I’ve got a bunch of aluminum shavings in the garage floor and some black powder laying around.
    Or some clever sod develops a radar transmitter than sends the same signal the following autonomous vehicle is expecting back and is maybe sent and activated when the leading vehicle, i.e. a motorcycle, uses his brake lightly enough to run the brake light on. Just a thought, I don't know anything about the frequencies and data patterns thesis sensors are using.
    Currently in my garage
    --------------------------
    '15 Ducati Panigale 1299S
    '15 Ducati Multistrada S (White)
    '12 Aprilia Tuono APRC (Yellow)
    '98 Yamaha R1
    '93 Bimota Db2
    '75 Honda CB400F

    My Sons bikes
    '07 Ducati 1098S
    '08 KTM 250 XCW
    '05 Honda 650XR

  10. #10
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    Wonder what impacts Radar detectors with Protection/Jamming can have on these autonomous systems.

    For years software engineers have attempted to write foolproof software however nature usually provides a better fool to defeat it and the same looks to be the case with these autonomous cars.

    Police radar was developed right after WWII and first put into use somewhere around 1947 in Connecticut now here it is 70 years later and its still got some bugs in it. So why would we believe that a bulletproof autonomous system for a car could be brought to market in such short time when such a mature system as police radar still isn't there yet?

    Perhaps its time to scoop up a Marauder to protect oneself from these HAV's:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDoRmT0iRic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockynv View Post
    Wonder what impacts Radar detectors with Protection/Jamming can have on these autonomous systems.

    For years software engineers have attempted to write foolproof software however nature usually provides a better fool to defeat it and the same looks to be the case with these autonomous cars.

    Police radar was developed right after WWII and first put into use somewhere around 1947 in Connecticut now here it is 70 years later and its still got some bugs in it. So why would we believe that a bulletproof autonomous system for a car could be brought to market in such short time when such a mature system as police radar still isn't there yet?

    Perhaps its time to scoop up a Marauder to protect oneself from these HAV's:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDoRmT0iRic
    Radar detectors, at least in the US, do not have radar jamming capability. That is banned by law and emissions are regulated by the FCC to Mil, LE, and certain licensed end users. You're thinking of laser jamming which is legal and regulated by the FDA. Those bumper mounted radar systems do emit strong signals in the K band and sometimes into the low Ka band and would routinely trigger my radar detectors until I disabled K band (most police in the area use mid-high Ka anyway). I think even if you got a hold of a radar emitter (used radar gun) all it would do is jam the radar with the counter signal and not show as an object. Escort and presumably Valentine have started releasing periodic updates for their newer radar detectors that have "images" of the specific radar emitted from newer models of cars they have tested so that the detectors won't alert to bumper radar but will still alert to police radar.

    I did some reading and a few of the systems use a combination of different emitters to develop a picture to include radar, IR, and photo sensors. I think it was Tesla that uses a combination of radar and photo receptors to develop its image.
    Last edited by benton0311; 11-28-2017 at 10:42 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by benton0311 View Post
    Radar detectors, at least in the US, do not have radar jamming capability. That is banned by law and emissions are regulated by the FCC to Mil, LE, and certain licensed end users. You're thinking of laser jamming which is legal and regulated by the FDA. Those bumper mounted radar systems do emit strong signals in the K band and sometimes into the low Ka band and would routinely trigger my radar detectors until I disabled K band (most police in the area use mid-high Ka anyway). I think even if you got a hold of a radar emitter (used radar gun) all it would do is jam the radar with the counter signal and not show as an object. Escort and presumably Valentine have started releasing periodic updates for their newer radar detectors that have "images" of the specific radar emitted from newer models of cars they have tested so that the detectors won't alert to bumper radar but will still alert to police radar.

    I did some reading and a few of the systems use a combination of different emitters to develop a picture to include radar, IR, and photo sensors. I think it was Tesla that uses a combination of radar and photo receptors to develop its image.
    Radar jammers may be banned in the US however so is texting while driving and a host of other things however that does not prevent the determined from having or doing. A lot of variables to deal with there.

  13. #13
    apriliaforum expert millietant's Avatar
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    It looks like that Documentary looking at future technology, featuring Wesley Snipes & Sylvester Stallone, describe the cultural and scientific developments in my lifetime, absolutely perfectly !!!!!

    Of shit..... we're f**ked !!!!!!!
    Cheers,

    "I am a selfish, self-righteous tosser", a "fucking loser" and now an "absolute fucking idiot"

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    apriliaforum expert uberchicken's Avatar
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    Automated Vehicles

    I did a paper on this and the way I proposed it was the self driving vehicles operate in separate lane(s) like HOV vehicles do now. In theory they can communicate with each other and safely fit more cars in a given space. The benefit is that all the self driving/texting/distracted drivers are separated from the rest of us who want to drive!
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberchicken View Post
    I did a paper on this and the way I proposed it was the self driving vehicles operate in separate lane(s) like HOV vehicles do now. In theory they can communicate with each other and safely fit more cars in a given space. The benefit is that all the self driving/texting/distracted drivers are separated from the rest of us who want to drive!
    Where those lanes are available, great, but that is a very limited percentage of roadways. The whole point is they are completely integrated into the normal road system. Otherwise, you're talking about building new infrastructure, which is the impediment to light rail, subway, fast train, etc, etc, etc....

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