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Thread: Goat?

  1. #61
    apriliaforum expert Ricardo J's Avatar
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    "Il Marziano"

    Riot, the guy depicted in your avatar deserves serious GOAT consideration. He was a big hit in Italy even, where fans called him "Il Marziano", The Martian, for his incredible talent. They also loved his non-aristocratic availability with fans, which contrasted with that of many of the sport's stars at the time. Later, his establishment of dirt track schools in Spain still looks like it's paying off! KR changed the sport in many ways, not the least of which was organizing riders for better economic and safety conditions. The man had serious balls!

    Agostini's life off the track may have been as hazardous as it was on...jealous boyfriends present dangers that even unprotected barriers don't! Armco cannot kill you while you're asleep.

  2. #62
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    Not sure about a GOAT in Motorcycle Roadracing. Giacomo has the stats, and he was certainly risking more than riders today. But he also spent more than a few years as the only guy on a factory bike. He was out there on a 3 or 4 cylinder MV beating up on single cylinder British bikes. It wasn't really fair some of the time.
    There have been other great racers that had over the years, Kenny Roberts, Mike Hailwood, Eddie Lawson, Rossi, and now Marquez. I left many others out, only because you have to draw the line somewhere. Anyway, I am not sure if anyone other than Roberts or Rossi could currently challenge Giacomo for the title of GOAT. But maybe Marquez will in the future.
    The only real GOAT I know of is Ricky Carmichael in MX / SX.

  3. #63
    apriliaforum expert Ricardo J's Avatar
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    There could be GOAT seasons. I nominate 1985, when the 500 and 250cc championships were won by the same guy. Freddie said oftentimes, he'd be up on the 250 podium while his 500 was being rolled to the grid.

    Not including the rider-boycotted Misano event, 1985 was an 11 race season and Spencer won a combined 14 times, including four "doubles".
    Last edited by Ricardo J; 11-14-2017 at 12:43 PM.

  4. #64
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    Agostini was on the modern equivalent of an RC213V while everyone else was on the equivalent of Moto2 bikes. He survived, and beat Mike the Bike enough times that he certainly deserves to be mentioned among the greatest. But I don't think anyone would say that he faced a field of equal bikes. Unless they crashed or failed, the MVs should won every race they entered until two-strokes took over. He still won a 350cc & 500cc championship with Yamaha at the tail end of his GP career.

    As for Spencer, a GOAT season as mentioned certainly has merit. The only rider I could see pulling off a Moto2/MotoGP double would be Marquez now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sburns2421 View Post
    The only rider I could see pulling off a Moto2/MotoGP double would be Marquez now.
    and a sub 6ft Frenchman

  6. #66
    apriliaforum expert Nonno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo J View Post
    Many of the antifosi (VR haters) were vocal Max Biaggi fans, which is its own recognized psychological malady. When Max retired, these folks faced the bleak prospect of lost identity and relevance, thus they morphed into "anybody but Rossi" types. Credit to them, for they are the fiercest keyboard pounders on planet Earth! The reliable units we so amicably use today are in large part a product of their tireless 24/7 testing. So thank you all for the sheer quantity, if not quality.

    Back to the GOAT question: I see precious little support here for Casey Stoner, even amongst the Down Unda contingent. Have all you lot just sobered up and transferred over to the Marquez camp? I totally get it, and in fact agree with this: 93 >>> 27.
    Really? I'm not keen on Rossi, but Max is an even bigger nob job!

    Re Stoner, his career was too short to get him in the goat race. As to where he stands amongst the current crop, do some digging and read what THEY say about him!

    PS. I haven't sobered up nor transferred to any camp.
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  7. #67
    apriliaforum expert craigo298er's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo J View Post
    There could be GOAT seasons.
    Greatest Of All Time means all time...just sayin'

  8. #68
    apriliaforum expert ape66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sburns2421 View Post
    It will take some doing for MM to replace Rossi as GOAT.

    Someone asked about criteria, and ultimately this will be subjective. But I would contend one of the points for GOATdom is that you change the sport in some way. Marquez is dominating. Just as Rossi/Doohan/Rainey/Lawson/Roberts/Ago/Hailwood dominated for a few years at the peak of their careers.

    But of those only Rossi in our generation has the combination of longevity at the sharp end, ultimately a massive number of wins and podiums, and to my point above he elevated GP racing in the media higher than it ever was before. People I know that have no knowledge about motorcycle racing have heard of him. In a way he transcends the sport. When he actually retires people will realize that the current riders simply will not hold the non-hardcore fans interest, although Marquez is the most likely to even come close to his level of popularity.
    If anyone brought the profile of gp racing to the public eye it was Barry Sheene. He was the guy who basically single handed saved and got wages for the riders.

  9. #69
    apriliaforum expert ape66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigo298er View Post
    not sure on that, but JL would need fans first. I think I recall hearing something about fans outside MM's house or something after Sepang...
    Jlo seemed to have a lot of friends in the paddock when he was walking down pit lane at the test!

  10. #70
    apriliaforum expert CRMNL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ape66 View Post
    If anyone brought the profile of gp racing to the public eye it was Barry Sheene. He was the guy who basically single handed saved and got wages for the riders.
    christ. we agree on something.
    hubris-that's the game with the blocks, right?

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  11. #71
    apriliaforum expert ape66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRMNL View Post
    christ. we agree on something.
    Hey there is always a first time for everything.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by ape66 View Post
    If anyone brought the profile of gp racing to the public eye it was Barry Sheene. He was the guy who basically single handed saved and got wages for the riders.
    True dat. He was advertising on TV, road safety and men's grooming products. He was in posters in the magazine my sister used to buy, everyone's mum knew who he was and lads wanted to be him . He wasn't the greatest rider but he probably had the biggest balls

  13. #73
    apriliaforum expert yzr750's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo J View Post
    Back to the GOAT question: I see precious little support here for Casey Stoner, even amongst the Down Unda contingent. Have all you lot just sobered up and transferred over to the Marquez camp? I totally get it, and in fact agree with this: 93 >>> 27.
    Even tho' you're a dick I'll engage, Stoner didn't have the longevity to get anywhere near goat status but he was, along with Hailwood and Spencer, one of the most naturally talented riders I've ever seen.
    seesecurity.com.au

  14. #74
    apriliaforum Junkie riot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V4Victory View Post
    True dat. He was advertising on TV, road safety and men's grooming products. He was in posters in the magazine my sister used to buy, everyone's mum knew who he was and lads wanted to be him . He wasn't the greatest rider but he probably had the biggest balls
    If the criteria is Girls Shagged, he might be near the top

  15. #75
    apriliaforum Junkie riot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sburns2421 View Post
    Agostini was on the modern equivalent of an RC213V while everyone else was on the equivalent of Moto2 bikes. He survived, and beat Mike the Bike enough times that he certainly deserves to be mentioned among the greatest. But I don't think anyone would say that he faced a field of equal bikes. Unless they crashed or failed, the MVs should won every race they entered until two-strokes took over. He still won a 350cc & 500cc championship with Yamaha at the tail end of his GP career.

    We are not talking about MV in 1962 here. The Rc181 was hardly a pushbike, and it was raced by the best (Hailwood, Redman). More critically, this was an era when pro level racing showed up at the track with less resources than some hobbyists ride today. There were no multi-million $$ contracts, there were no endorsement deals - you raced for passion to an extent.

    Certainly, the athletic level of the sport was somewhat lower, but I can't say the performance was any less. On 1966 tires, tracks and bikes, one ill-timed mistake or mechanical was death. A component of the skill exhibited by the riders we have today clearly comes from the ability to crash and walk away. In the end, it is like comparing IoM TT racers and GP stars - surely MM93 is faster around Austin, but I'll have my money on McGuinness at the TT.

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