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Thread: juddering

  1. #16
    apriliaforum prov-nov
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    Hi Andy, what are your comments re this please, I phoned Wheels (an Aprilia dealer) who did not have any suggestions except to say it could be many things, I then phoned Robinsons Foundry who fitted the belt and they are an Aprillia dealer who had no idea as they have only done two Manas, now comes the funny bit you remember I talked about juddering with the back brake on as a test, but it does not do it with the front brake on and throttling up, the sprockets are fine as it the chain with the correct amount of play in it, the tyres is good with the pressure correct, I can not fault anything and I have always maintained all my bikes over the years but this is a real puzzle, I guess I will have to take it in to my local dealer and ask the engineer to have a ride round the block and see what he says. (when it is a bit warmer)
    Keith

  2. #17
    apriliaforum expert pete roper's Avatar
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    So none of these fuckwits could tell you if the retraining functions had been carried out? You've got to eliminate that as a possibility first otherwise you might as well ask a bloody oracle or look for the answer in a scrying bowl!
    Professional Goat Burster.

  3. #18
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    Yes you are right Pete thanks for the reply, I am getting a bit pissed off with the dealers attitude and if I had the gear I would do it my self as I used to a Marine Engineer rebuilding any engine and gearbox before I retired.
    Keith

  4. #19
    apriliaforum Junkie AndyT's Avatar
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    I don't suppose you have the invoice for the belt change from Robinsons, do you. It might not help, but presumably there should be a work sheet somewhere that details what was done. You are into the old issue of the original dealer not wanting to get stuck with repeating some expensive work for free and an alternate dealer not wanting to get caught up in an argument about who pays for work if the original proves to have been done poorly. In this case they are both looking at dealing with a transmission they know very little about. I don't know what the answer to this is as I'm guessing that you will come up against the same issue no matter where you take it. All I can suggest is to take it into Wheels and get them to try to replicate the problem and see what they say.

    I was riding my GT in slow traffic at the weekend and use the back brake to control road speed with just enough throttle to keep the clutch engaged and couldn't get the bike to judder or do anything other than simply pull away when the road cleared. Only other thing I would suggest checking is the centring mechanism on both the back brake and the parking brake as I regularly have to service mine to keep them working smoothly and not sticking with the back pad binding.

    However, I did a bit or searching about and came up with this link - http://modernvespa.com/forum/wiki-faq-shudder

    The bulk of the thread is a post by somebody who seems to know what he is talking about and lays the blame squarely on the clutch. The trouble is you are going to have to strip down the assembly to get at the clutch pads and bell to check and you are right back at needing to do retraining again once it is all back together.
    Last edited by AndyT; 11-18-2017 at 08:27 PM.
    2009 Mana GT ABS; Andreani fork cartridges with uprated springs; Dorsoduro hand guards and heated grips; 30mm handlebar risers; Digital tachograph: Modified woodcraft folding brake pedal; R&G frame sliders

  5. #20
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    Well that is very interesting and describes my fault Alan, but as you say I will need to borrow the Navigator unit from the dealer if he has one I will have to ask and see if he will lend it to me I have bought quite a few bikes from him so he might, otherwise I will have to put it in to the dealer for a complete job which will be expensive, I do not have a problem stripping it down its the setting up afterwards,

    re your comments like you if I keep the clutch engaged there is not a problem it is only on the start from stop I get the juddering and only with a slightly heavy throttle I have not tried a big handful, I also think it is the clutch not the belt, also I do not know how long it was standing in the dealers for sale so we might be talking about a rust deposit in the bell and now embedded in the pads ? but I does not snatch so I am ruling that out at present , I will take the bike down to my dealers and get them to test ride it and see what they have to say.
    Thanks for all your help Alan

  6. #21
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    Oh p.s. Andy I do have the invoice from Robinsons Foundry but I do not think they will respond to me as I was not there customer and the new belt was fitted in May 2017 so I will leave that alone, I could hassle the dealer I bought it from but it has been nearly five months now so I do not they will go for it either :-)
    Keith

  7. #22
    apriliaforum expert pete roper's Avatar
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    What's wrong with these people? Connecting up PADS and performing the retraining functions is something I'd charge a customer a pineapple for, (Pineapple=$50AU note. Google it.). If it doesn't work then they need to pay for more service. If it does I'm a case of piss in front!

    Pete
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  8. #23
    apriliaforum Junkie AndyT's Avatar
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    Trouble is, Pete, we have fewer and fewer actual mechanics these days as they have all been replaced by fitters who rely on a computer to tell them which bits to change. Time was a good mechanic could tell you what was wrong just by listening to a vehicle. Now they can't cope unless they have a fault code or an obviously broken part. It's not like CVT drives are exactly rare so any Aprilia dealer who sells scooters should be able to sort out the mana's electronic version, however this does not appear to be the case. It's not helped locally as I seem to have a lot of ex Aprilia dealers around me so you have to ask why.
    2009 Mana GT ABS; Andreani fork cartridges with uprated springs; Dorsoduro hand guards and heated grips; 30mm handlebar risers; Digital tachograph: Modified woodcraft folding brake pedal; R&G frame sliders

  9. #24
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    I do know Pete, it is all very odd maybe they are shy of it or there are not enough Mana's around for them to know about them, but having said that one lad at my local dealers went on a course at Aprilia for the mana all be it a few years ago when they were Aprilia dealers so I will get him to have a test ride when it is not pissing with rain as it is at present and see what he thinks, but he did tell me they have all the Aprilia tools and even said Aprilia charged them 800 for them at the time, perhaps he will remember his training with a bit of luck ? I love the bike but this is becoming a pain in the back side and I think if this hassle continues I might well trade it for something without problems of this sort.
    Keith

  10. #25
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    Well I took the bike to my Dealer and they said there is nothing wrong with it but I am not completely sold on that, but that is not what members have said on here so I think I will run it to the next belt change and see what happens after that is done, thanks everybody for the help.
    Keith

  11. #26
    apriliaforum expert pete roper's Avatar
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    Simple questions.

    Did it do it when it was new? Yes/No?

    Has it got worse since belt replacement? Yes/No?

    Were the re-training functions carried out after the belt change? Yes'/No?

    If the first answer is 'No' then there is something wrong with it.

    If the answer to the second question is 'Yes' then there is something wrong with it.

    If the answer to the third question is 'No' they your dealer is a shitgibbon and a fucktard!
    Professional Goat Burster.

  12. #27
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    Hi Pete,
    I did not buy it new Pete it had 10,000 miles on it but in mint condition and had just had a main service and a belt change (early I know), has it got worse since I have had it answer No, was the belt trained after fitting, don't know, and lastly it was not my Dealer it was Robinson's Foundry who serviced it and fitted the belt, My Dealer used to be an Aprilia dealer but is not know but still has all the tools and the guy I spoke too went on a course for the Aprilia Mana belt change etc a few years back so he was my best bet for comments on the bike, it is fine if you take off gently it only shakes if you give it a handful when you first take off i.e. off the lights otherwise it is a smooth as silk.
    Keith.

  13. #28
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    Hi All, re the juddering I took the bike to my local dealer today who used to be an Aprilia dealer and after a short test ride he agreed with all of you and said the juddering was severe, having had that report I got in contact with the dealer I bought it from down in Kent who told me there was only a 3 month warranty on the bike which surprised me because I understand under the consumer act it was now 6 months warranty they had to give, anyway I have had the bike for five months and in any case it did not cover things like clutch and belt etc but he did say if I take it in to my local dealer to be sorted he would cover half the cost of repair so I suppose that is better than nothing, but I am surprised at the lack of knowledge from dealers re the Mana and if it was not for the fact I would need a navigator unit to train the belt afterwards I would of done it myself.
    once again thanks for all your help guys.
    Keith
    Last edited by oslin; 12-06-2017 at 11:18 AM.

  14. #29
    apriliaforum expert pete roper's Avatar
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    Keith, anyone with any of the proprietory tools or Texa can re-train the two functions. Why is this so fucking hard???

    Pete
    Professional Goat Burster.

  15. #30
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    You tell me Pete, my local dealer is happy to sort it out it was just a question of who was going to pay for it and who could/would do it, most dealers even Aprilia dealers seem to shy away from the Mana and give me blank answers which I fine very odd, I will take it to my dealer in the new year, but at least I have got an agreement from the dealer I bought it from that he will pay half the cost and with a bit of luck it will be sorted and I can enjoy riding it as it should be :-)
    Keith

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