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Thread: Rules shakeup for world supers 2018

  1. #16
    apriliaforum expert Powerful Pierre's Avatar
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    So the plan is to handicap the manufacturers that take the series seriously?

    With an artificial 'flexible' element to the rules to further stunt the performance of any rider/manufacturer that manages to outperform the opposition throughout the season?

    And that's supposed to be fair and equal competition?

    Sounds like the recipe for a right royal f*ck up to me! Protests, counter-protests, appeals, counter-appeals etc, etc........where is the incentive to give your best when you know you will be penalised for it? That's already happening with the semi-reversed grid, now they want to pile this on top?

    Here's a radical idea - how about Aprilia, Honda & Yamaha get their act together, Suzuki re-join, and they all bring their effort/commitment up to the level of Kawasaki & Ducati? With an agreement that satellite bikes of similar spec are leased to the lesser funded teams at an affordable cost, if they want them, or freedom to develop their own bikes if they don't.

    As it stands Yamaha are nearly there, only tenths away from regularly challenging for the podium, because they appear to have made the commitment and the factory are getting themselves involved, if Aprilia properly got their act together they'd also be there, and Honda? They'd rather see everybody brought down to their level than put the effort in, so perhaps they should just f*ck off!

    Like it or not there will always to top dogs in a series and better funding will always attract the best riders......unless they turn it into a one make series with control tyres, chassis, electronics, budget etc there will always be some sort of disparity.

  2. #17
    apriliaforum expert craigo298er's Avatar
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    bring back different tire manufacturers...that should cause a shake up. penalizing manufacturers isn't a good route.

  3. #18
    apriliaforum expert CRMNL's Avatar
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    once again-pierre speaks truth.
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  4. #19
    apriliaforum expert Tdawg's Avatar
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    In another thread it was mentioned the Kawi is the only bike with the correct throttle (paired)bodies on their stock bike.

    The remaining brands new to re-engineer their stock bikes to meet the homologation rules in current rules.
    It’s all politics and marketing unfortunately. Kawi built a bike to win on the rules, sucks for the rest. When aprilia built a bike for the rule and won...
    Last edited by Tdawg; 10-26-2017 at 10:16 AM.

  5. #20
    apriliaforum Junkie riot's Avatar
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    For myself, I've always been interested in a 'Claiming Rule' or other cost based formula for superbikes.

    If GP bikes are 'no expense spared' R&D machines => Superbike should be 'expenses spared' production based bikes. In the end, this is what they are in most non-world championship series: The most bike someone can build for their budget.

    The key difference is that capping costs strikes directly at the barrier for team participation (cost), but it also allows for innovation in engineering to yield an advantage, which is what the rest of the team (aside form the rider) is there for. The main down side is that it will not directly result in close races.

    It seems that most of the world series are heading towards 'close racing' over 'racing innovation'. If that remains the case, then the roadmap trends directly to whatever Nascar is doing => Essentially a spec class. They monkey with the races as an added annoyance.


    As a wild alternative, I think an awesome idea is a swapper class. That is, the teams provide the bikes and support (with very flexible rules), and the riders swap around the bikes every weekend. This gives the teams a chance to innovate and prove their bike, and the riders aren't hobbled by a weaker team. I think you could see some pretty exciting rider's championships come out of it (which is what sells TV), and it would highlight without any doubt which team's or factories bikes are the best for all.

  6. #21
    apriliaforum expert
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    Here's a radical idea - how about Aprilia, Honda & Yamaha get their act together, Suzuki re-join, and they all bring their effort/commitment up to the level of Kawasaki & Ducati? With an agreement that satellite bikes of similar spec are leased to the lesser funded teams at an affordable cost, if they want them, or freedom to develop their own bikes if they don't.
    Are these changes being driven by the other manufacturers or the series organisers ? I don't think there is the interest in the series from the other manufacturers, BMW sell more superbikes than anyone and they aren't bothered about world supers. Aprilia won World Superbikes a few times but their sales were/are still p1ss poor

  7. #22
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    The harsh reality is that right now superbikes, and the bikes they are based on, are not the economic powerhouse they once were. Sales of those models has dropped off, and unless the manufacturers are going to perceive a return on their investment they aren't going to invest much effort into WSBK. As mentioned, BMW seem to sell their superbike just fine with no real factory effort. Aprilia couldn't sell ice water to people in hell. Suzuki probably can't afford a proper WSBK team unless someone else ponies up the money. Honda, well they can go F themselves and their bikes will still sell. Kawasaki played their cards well, but the funny thing is by dominating as they have they devalue the worth of winning in the series.

  8. #23
    apriliaforum expert Powerful Pierre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V4Victory View Post
    Are these changes being driven by the other manufacturers or the series organisers ? I don't think there is the interest in the series from the other manufacturers, BMW sell more superbikes than anyone and they aren't bothered about world supers. Aprilia won World Superbikes a few times but their sales were/are still p1ss poor
    Series organisers mainly (with a bit of whinging in their ear about it 'not being fair that the red & green bikes are better than ours') I would imagine to overcome the apathy of the half-arsed efforts of some of the manufacturers in a vain attempt to stimulate more interest....BMW may not have a factory team any more but them do still support 2 teams in WSBK (one more so than the other) so they're not completely disinterested. Aprilia? Well they seem to have lost their way since the previous rules changes at the end of the Max era went against them.........and I think their lousy rep and poor dealer network are the main reason folks don't buy their bikes....they may be great pieces of engineering but few people trust them when it comes to back-up etc so they're not even considered as a potential purchase.

    Personally I'd have liked to have seen Suzuki re-appear next season, with some 'encouragement' from Dorna if necessary, with a proper team and some decent riders and Yamaha make the next step, without even having to consider all this manipulation of the rules, grid positions etc......

    WSBK has been great in the past, with big crowds and lots of TV interest, even tho' it was dominated by a small number of teams/factories/riders, just as it is now....why was that? Maybe because it was better marketed, had a novel format of 2 races in the day, riders with strong personalities & rivalries that were hyped up by the media etc. All the ingredients are still there it just needs someone to make the best of it rather than randomly flapping around like a freshly landed fish.

    If Honda can't build a decent competitive bike then tough, piss-off, don't try and spoil it for everybody else!

  9. #24
    apriliaforum expert Triple J's Avatar
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    Why is Honda being blamed? Kawi is kicking every other manufacturer's ass. Ducati is second, but not really a close second.

    The problem is the factories aren't interested in WSBK at the moment, except for Kawi. Dorna doesn't seem all that concerned about it either.
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  10. #25
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    The fact that KTM hasn't bothered with superbikes and gone to GPs speaks volumes. They have been totally focused on winning at racing as a way to sell motorbikes . They have taken on the might of the Japanese factories at Motocross and beaten them all. They are going head to head with HRC in moto3, giving moto2 a good bash and haven't disgraced themselves in their first season in MotoGP. Like Yamaha and Honda they realise that small bike sales in Asia are the bread and butter and are the sales market to go after. Like Honda and Yamaha they know that MotoGP is the the show room to those markets .

  11. #26
    apriliaforum expert ape66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple J View Post
    Why is Honda being blamed? Kawi is kicking every other manufacturer's ass. Ducati is second, but not really a close second.

    The problem is the factories aren't interested in WSBK at the moment, except for Kawi. Dorna doesn't seem all that concerned about it either.
    If Davies would stop falling off, he would be a serious contender. And it is only basicly one Kwaka that is winning.

  12. #27
    apriliaforum expert ape66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V4Victory View Post
    The fact that KTM hasn't bothered with superbikes and gone to GPs speaks volumes. They have been totally focused on winning at racing as a way to sell motorbikes . They have taken on the might of the Japanese factories at Motocross and beaten them all. They are going head to head with HRC in moto3, giving moto2 a good bash and haven't disgraced themselves in their first season in MotoGP. Like Yamaha and Honda they realise that small bike sales in Asia are the bread and butter and are the sales market to go after. Like Honda and Yamaha they know that MotoGP is the the show room to those markets .
    KTM now can't go back on there statement about superbikes after they failed with the twin.

  13. #28
    apriliaforum expert ape66's Avatar
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    Doooommmmmeeeeddddd

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  14. #29
    apriliaforum expert yzr750's Avatar
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    It's not just the manufacturers that'll be pissed off, think about the riders, the better I ride the more I'll be penalised.
    As someone above said, it's only 1 of the kawasakis that's doing most of the winning, take Rea out of the equation and it's a pretty competitive championship.
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  15. #30
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    They should make Rea ride with a chick on the back. That'll even up the series.
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