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Thread: Preliminary Suspension setup on 2017 TF

  1. #16
    apriliaforum Junkie bigrog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNG View Post
    It is possible that a heavier rear spring may be needed. The OEM spring rate is 0.95 which is said to be “generally good for riders upto 180lbs”.
    Thanks I didn't know what the OEM rate was. On my Triumph I ended up with .97 (9.5N/mm) which was as advised by FTR Suspension UK with Andreani valving, and it works very well. The bike weights are very similar, the Tuono is 209kg and the Triumph 202kg (dry). So I think Harris Performance is right the springs should be Ok for me excepting maybe that the suspension travel is 150mm on the Triumph as opposed to 112 on the Tuono.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigrog View Post
    Thanks I didn't know what the OEM rate was. On my Triumph I ended up with .97 (9.5N/mm) which was as advised by FTR Suspension UK with Andreani valving, and it works very well. The bike weights are very similar, the Tuono is 209kg and the Triumph 202kg (dry). So I think Harris Performance is right the springs should be Ok for me excepting maybe that the suspension travel is 150mm on the Triumph as opposed to 112 on the Tuono.
    Front Travel = 120mm
    Rear Travel = 130mm

    Variables like Leverage ratio, wheel travel and load determine the required spring rate for your motorcycle.
    Last edited by JNG; 12-07-2017 at 07:57 PM.

  3. #18
    apriliaforum expert DaveNZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNG View Post
    It is possible that a heavier rear spring may be needed. The OEM spring rate is 0.95 which is said to be “generally good for riders upto 180lbs”. (OEM fork spring rate is 1.05)
    Bigrod said he felt his initial setup felt Poggoie, i think a 1.05nm spring rate may remove some of this effect, 10 mm free sag with 37mm rider, sag, well if more rear preload was dialled in, his free sag would be even less, so i feel the .95kn is too light. 10mm free sag is the barest minimum. it may be ok on the track, but not the road.
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  4. #19
    apriliaforum Junkie bigrog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNG View Post
    Front Travel = 120mm
    Rear Travel = 130mm
    Hmmm I got those specs from the latest 2017 Tuono manual ?

    "Front wheel travel - Tuono V4 1100
    Factory
    112 mm (4.41 in)
    Front wheel travel - Tuono V4 1100
    RR
    111 mm (4.37 in)
    Rear shock absorber - Tuono V4
    1100 Factory
    With progressive linkage with APS
    system. Öhlins shock absorber
    with adjustable spring preload
    piggy-back,
    wheelbase,compression damping
    and rebound damping.
    Rear shock absorber - Tuono V4
    1100 RR
    With progressive linkage with APS
    system. Sachs piggy-back shock
    absorber adjustable with spring
    preloading, hydraulic brake
    compression and rebound
    damping.
    Rear wheel travel - Tuono V4 1100
    Factory
    124.1 mm (4.89 in)
    Rear wheel travel - Tuono V4 1100
    RR
    131.6 mm (5.18 in)"

    Quote Originally Posted by JNG View Post
    Variables like Leverage ratio, wheel travel and load determine the required spring rate for your motorcycle.
    Agreed but at the end of the day for the average rider such as me, it is the resultant rider and free sag that acts as the check on that decision. However what I have found in the past and I am finding now, is that there are quite wide opinions on just what those ball park numbers should be. Ohlins don't really help because they appear to publish next to nothing of technical details/specifications about their products. Aprilia also don't seem to publish such stuff as the OEM spring rates and what rider weight they designed for etc. The Ohlins app shows that FL 921LH or FL 921EH are the possible front forks but I can't find any details about them at all (haven't looked what are on my bike yet because it is still in the UK)?
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  5. #20
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    Hi Bigrog,

    I actually found out that my stock 17 Tuono has .85 spring. Is it the same on yours?

  6. #21
    apriliaforum Junkie bigrog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by incult View Post
    Hi Bigrog,

    I actually found out that my stock 17 Tuono has .85 spring. Is it the same on yours?
    To be honest I didn't know but you prompted me to look and this is what I found for the rear spring
    This is an Ohlins spring rate table
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is the spring specification on my TF spring (no idea why photo is upside down, I tried to rotate it but it made no difference)
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Ok the relevant bit from the spring is 1091-31 (I don't know what the rest means, possibly the 95 is the spring rate in N/mm and a part number?)

    Looking this up on the top row of the chart (click on it to get an enlarged view), the first number 1091 gives the free spring length, which is 160mm.

    If you then look to the right of the table, and under the heading "Rate number" (the rate number is the second value 31) look down the column and 31 gives the spring rate of 95N/mm or 9.69Kg/mm or 542lbs/in

    Finally, the intersection of the 1091 column and the 31 rate row in the main table gives the compressed length of the spring as being 79mm.

    So for my rear shock the spring rate is 9.69kg/mm. This is a lot less than my Triumph which was 14.29kg.mm or a 54 rate number on the Ohlins table. However I doubt they can be compared because of different geometry between the two bikes.
    I haven't found anything out about the front springs yet
    The Third Law of Human Dynamics: For every opportunity to communicate there is an equal and opposite opportunity to misunderstand

  7. #22
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    My Tuono Factory -17 adjusted after the manual is a damn pogostick.
    im thinking of a revalve, the rebound adjuster in the fork doesnt do much.

    What is your experience of the rebound of the Öhlins of the front fork on -17 version?

  8. #23
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    I've checked myself and I have a 95 N/mm as well. The shop mechanic told me it's an 85, but it was just dirt on the spring hiding the number.

    Looking at the table you've posted, does this mean the highest rating available is a 110 N/mm? I would need a 13kg/mm for my weight

  9. #24
    apriliaforum Junkie bigrog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FredrikM View Post
    My Tuono Factory -17 adjusted after the manual is a damn pogostick.
    im thinking of a revalve, the rebound adjuster in the fork doesnt do much.

    What is your experience of the rebound of the Öhlins of the front fork on -17 version?
    It does the job on mine. I wind the compression adjuster right out when checking the rebound statically, it helps when compressing the suspension.
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  10. #25
    apriliaforum Junkie bigrog's Avatar
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    Yes, but how did you arrive at your spring rate value?
    The Third Law of Human Dynamics: For every opportunity to communicate there is an equal and opposite opportunity to misunderstand

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by FredrikM View Post
    My Tuono Factory -17 adjusted after the manual is a damn pogostick.
    im thinking of a revalve, the rebound adjuster in the fork doesnt do much.

    What is your experience of the rebound of the Öhlins of the front fork on -17 version?
    got a ride in the sun today,, no im am no expert and just learning the dark art.. after a spirited ride with front rider sag of 39mm I ended up with 3 clicks out for rebound and 20 out for compression. (standard uk bumpy raods stopping every 5-10 miles and making small adjustments) Being slightly lardy at 99kg with gear , this seem to give me a decent ride without too much dive etc.. That said from other threads on here 20 clicks out for compression seems rather a lot.. seems to work for me, thoughts !!!

  12. #27
    apriliaforum expert TL2Bass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddy871 View Post
    got a ride in the sun today,, no im am no expert and just learning the dark art.. after a spirited ride with front rider sag of 39mm I ended up with 3 clicks out for rebound and 20 out for compression. (standard uk bumpy raods stopping every 5-10 miles and making small adjustments) Being slightly lardy at 99kg with gear , this seem to give me a decent ride without too much dive etc.. That said from other threads on here 20 clicks out for compression seems rather a lot.. seems to work for me, thoughts !!!

    20 clicks out (counter clockwise) would be a "comfort" setting and not too unusual for bumpy, choppy roads. 3 clicks out (counter clockwise) seems mighty "tight", though. This extreme imbalance would indicate the shock absorbing everything with little resistance (hence the comfort) but packing up due to the extremely slow rebound setting. Essentially, the shock wouldn't have time to extend (return to static) before being pummeled by the next bump in the road. Like a surfer being pounded by a set of waves while caught trying to swim out beyond the break. They never make it out and hate life the entire time.

    The only time I think large imbalances would be OK would be if you have extremely light wheels (carbon fiber) which typically require much slower rebound rates than alloys. I'm surprised the suspension settings you have now doesn't feel really stiff, especially the faster you go. I'd quicken up the rebound to something like 9 or 10 (from fully closed, ie.. counterclockwise) and see how that feels (leave the compression the same for now). That is still a fairly extreme spread, but should still retain the rebound control you need for a fast pace over a bumpy road.

    Now.. with that said... if you like what you have it set at now, ignore all of the above and enjoy the ride!
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TL2Bass View Post
    20 clicks out (counter clockwise) would be a "comfort" setting and not too unusual for bumpy, choppy roads. 3 clicks out (counter clockwise) seems mighty "tight", though. This extreme imbalance would indicate the shock absorbing everything with little resistance (hence the comfort) but packing up due to the extremely slow rebound setting. Essentially, the shock wouldn't have time to extend (return to static) before being pummeled by the next bump in the road. Like a surfer being pounded by a set of waves while caught trying to swim out beyond the break. They never make it out and hate life the entire time.

    The only time I think large imbalances would be OK would be if you have extremely light wheels (carbon fiber) which typically require much slower rebound rates than alloys. I'm surprised the suspension settings you have now doesn't feel really stiff, especially the faster you go. I'd quicken up the rebound to something like 9 or 10 (from fully closed, ie.. counterclockwise) and see how that feels (leave the compression the same for now). That is still a fairly extreme spread, but should still retain the rebound control you need for a fast pace over a bumpy road.

    Now.. with that said... if you like what you have it set at now, ignore all of the above and enjoy the ride!
    Thankyou sir for your wisdom,, more to come methinks,, will post results next time out ..

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigrog View Post
    Yes, but how did you arrive at your spring rate value?
    Dave Moss, worked with him in the past and i've had a great experience.
    If you're good at explaining and sending feedback, the remote set-up experience is totally worth it (assuming you have a serviced suspension)

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by FredrikM View Post
    My Tuono Factory -17 adjusted after the manual is a damn pogostick.
    im thinking of a revalve, the rebound adjuster in the fork doesnt do much.

    What is your experience of the rebound of the Öhlins of the front fork on -17 version?
    Following advice of those that have some knowledge here , I decided to dig a bit deeper. after watching some vid's including Dave Moss, I am slightly confused Again!!!. On checking rebound on a cold bounce test (2017 Factory) I can see little difference from 2 click out compared to 8 clicks out. See my videos below. Thoughts welcome, should I get forks checked, or am i being stupid and missing something. Just thought I would see a lot less speed at 2 clicks out. Bike is 6 months old with 2000miles on it.
    2 OUT

    8 OUT

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