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Thread: Factory Heated grips

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolonthecoast View Post
    The wattage or heat output at the grips equates to the Voltage multiplied by the current. So 12 volts x say 10 amps will give a wattage of 120w.
    As the voltage and the current are more or less fixed (the voltage will vary slightly between 12 - 14 v) So the existing system will work by switching between 3 different resistances to obtain the 3 heat settings. As the voltage is fairly stable and the current draw will be a fixed value too, the heat is increased at the grips by varying the resistance which changes the heat settings not the Volts or the Amps. So if you can change the resistance values available you could increase or reduce the heat output of the grips.
    The grips have a permanent 12V supply when the ignition is on. They go to earth via the dash which controls the OFF and 3 level functions. You could connect them straight to earth via a dedicated resistor, by-passing the dash. They are protected by a 7.5A fuse.

    I won't be bothering as they are plenty warm for the temperatures I ride in. Personally I think electric gloves would be more effective for really cold weather.

  2. #17
    apriliaforum Member coolonthecoast's Avatar
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    If its solid state circuitry in the dash pod as you suggest RSTman, there's probably nothing to be done then . I know everyone is different and reading the responses here, some are quite happy with the heat output and others (like me) less so. I've found this before with Guzzis, the factory grips aren't wonderful compared to the likes of Oxfords. If and when I change bikes again I'll fit an aftermarket set methinks.
    1200 Capo Travel Pack and a '85 Honda VF1000RF.

  3. #18
    apriliaforum Junkie Rockbyter's Avatar
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    I found them pretty cool too. Changing resistance will do nothing, as stated ohms law is ohms law. I think the control must be by limiting the current supplied probably by a switching function. I.E. on off timing and always remembering that the grips are only powered when over 2000 RPM.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockbyter View Post
    I found them pretty cool too. Changing resistance will do nothing, as stated ohms law is ohms law. I think the control must be by limiting the current supplied probably by a switching function. I.E. on off timing and always remembering that the grips are only powered when over 2000 RPM.
    Yea after I installed my grips since it was raining I started the bike up to see how they work. After about 10 minutes and the cooling fan came on I was thinking I got a bad pair of grips since they were still stone cold. After searching the forums on heated grips I saw they only work above 2000 rpm.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolonthecoast View Post
    So if you can change the resistance values available you could increase or reduce the heat output of the grips.
    Current is a function of resistance and voltage, as is wattage.
    I don't see how you increase the resistance at the grip.
    Ed
    2015 Travel Pack (since 5/2017)
    2007 Triumph Sprint 1050 ABS (for 3 years)
    1998 Honda VFR800 (for 15 years)
    et. al. (since 1977)

  6. #21
    apriliaforum Junkie Rockbyter's Avatar
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    Wattage is a function of Voltage and current not resistance though as current is a function of voltage and resistance they can go together. Ohms law does not include power(wattage) only resistance current and voltage. I can only think the power at the grip is a switched mode power supply regulating the current by switching the voltage on and off.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockbyter View Post
    Wattage is a function of Voltage and current not resistance though as current is a function of voltage and resistance they can go together. Ohms law does not include power(wattage) only resistance current and voltage. I can only think the power at the grip is a switched mode power supply regulating the current by switching the voltage on and off.
    Yep, prolly PWM - pulse width modulation. If setting 3 is 100% (12V on 100% of the time) then that's all the heat they will give.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockbyter View Post
    Wattage is a function of Voltage and current not resistance <snip>
    You can use algebra to change the equations around any way that you want, but in the end, it all comes down to resistance and voltage.
    To increase heat output you have to increase one (or both) of those. The wattage and current will follow.
    Ed
    2015 Travel Pack (since 5/2017)
    2007 Triumph Sprint 1050 ABS (for 3 years)
    1998 Honda VFR800 (for 15 years)
    et. al. (since 1977)

  9. #24
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    There seems to be, at best, a very vague understanding of OHMS law here. Increasing the current will lead to an increase in wattage (hence heat). This NOT done by increasing the resistance but by decreasing it. Increasing the resistance decreases the current for any given voltage and therefore decreases the wattage and vice versa. In practice, the heated grips are one fixed resistance and cannot be changed. However, if the heat output is controlled by three different switched resistances in series with the grips, as is often the case, then the hottest setting will have the lowest resistance in series with the grips making the lowest overall resistance and therefore the highest wattage. You don't need to be a competent electrician to measure the various resistances with a multi-meter though you may need to unplug a few things to access the measuring points. If you can determine the lowest resistance that is added in series with the grips in the control mechanism (the hottest setting) you could experiment with a lower value just by connecting the grips via the new lower value direct to the battery. Once you have decided on a value that gives you the desired heat, you will need to work out a way of substituting it for the one in the control box or bypassing the box altogether. You may even experiment by connecting the grips direct to the battery with no resistance but be aware that they may become very hot very quickly. If the control is more electronically sophisticated than mere resistances, forget trying to change it.

  10. #25
    apriliaforum Junkie Rockbyter's Avatar
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    To increase heat output you have to increase one (or both) of those
    Increasing resistance will reduce heat output I=V/R (Ohms Law)

    Now if the 2 grips are wired in series you could wire them in Parallel which would halve the resistance and double the current, if however they do use pulse width to regulate them it may not double due to inductive reactance interfering with it as you end up with a form of AC current.
    Last edited by Rockbyter; 10-26-2017 at 01:13 PM.

  11. #26
    apriliaforum Member coolonthecoast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockbyter View Post
    Increasing resistance will reduce heat output I=V/R (Ohms Law)

    Now if the 2 grips are wired in series you could wire them in Parallel which would halve the resistance and double the current, if however they do use pulse width to regulate them it may not double due to inductive reactance interfering with it as you end up with a form of AC current.
    That was my thinking. Doesn't a lighting dimmer switch work on that principle? The resistance is variable so the less resistance the brighter the light?
    1200 Capo Travel Pack and a '85 Honda VF1000RF.

  12. #27
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    I have found that the factory grips get quite hot when you are out for a long ride at constant speed. If you are in the city with stop and go...then they never get warm enough to do anything. Plus, you need thin leather gloves for thermal transfer...anything with padding and you lose a lot of heat.

  13. #28
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    I've got Oxford grips and level 3 is way too hot.

  14. #29
    apriliaforum Member coolonthecoast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nigelrtaylor View Post
    I've got Oxford grips and level 3 is way too hot.
    Oxford are the best aftermarket grips IMHO. If they are too hot on 3 presumably they are fine on setting 2? Like any heating system, I always think if its too hot you can always turn it down, but if you have it on max and you are still cold you are basically f**ked.
    1200 Capo Travel Pack and a '85 Honda VF1000RF.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockbyter View Post
    Increasing resistance will reduce heat output I=V/R (Ohms Law)

    Now if the 2 grips are wired in series you could wire them in Parallel which would halve the resistance and double the current, if however they do use pulse width to regulate them it may not double due to inductive reactance interfering with it as you end up with a form of AC current.
    I had to go back and refresh myself a little on electrical circuits, but I think that changing them from series to parallel doesn't increase current by halving the resistance. You're creating two circuits with current flow instead of just one. That's how you're increasing current (in your example doubling) and the resultant wattage.
    I'm guessing that the difference between a 25 W hand grip and a 35 W is the latter having additional parallel circuits and resistance.
    As previously said, the only way to increase the heat output is to increase the voltage or increase the resistance BY ADDING parallel circuits, is what I needed to include. You're not going to increase the heat of the stock grips.

    I'm (relatively) sure that they're already in parallel. Being only three heat levels it's quite possible that there are three distinct circuits in each grip. That would require 3 or 4 wires. If there's only two, then it probably is using pulse width modulation, although it seems like they would offer more than 3 levels. I think that the new VFR800 has at least 6 levels. You could argue that's just showing off and unnecessary, but PWM should give you more than just 3 levels, and when isn't more better (when it doesn't require any additional cost or complexity)?

    You have to remember that with Ohm's Law, the V represents the voltage drop across the resistance, not just a potential voltage (or voltage potential, for the EE's out there). I realize that the Caponord "family" is very small. If this thread was started on my old VFR email list, a dozen electrical engineers and physicists would jump in and hacks like me could stay quiet.
    Last edited by edk800f1; 10-28-2017 at 10:22 PM.
    Ed
    2015 Travel Pack (since 5/2017)
    2007 Triumph Sprint 1050 ABS (for 3 years)
    1998 Honda VFR800 (for 15 years)
    et. al. (since 1977)

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