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Thread: Bleeding Brakes

  1. #1
    apriliaforum prov-nov
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    Bleeding Brakes

    Hi All, can somebody tell the bast way to bleed the mana abs brakes please I note someone said they have to be back blead what does that mean is it vacuum bleeding? and the other question I have is what is the bleed nipple on the master cyl for I have not come accross this before, Thanks
    Keith

  2. #2
    apriliaforum Junkie AndyT's Avatar
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    Hi Keith, The traditional method of bleeding brakes doesn't work very well on the Mana GT (and a great many other bikes) as the pipe runs are quite long due to the ABS system and the fact that the master cylinders are actually quite small. This means they can't push enough fluid at each stroke to clear the air bubbles as they can flow back up the pipe during the return stroke. One way to get round this is to use a bleed pipe on the calliper nipple which has a non return valve. You can then leave the bleed nipple open and simply pump the brake lever or pedal fairly quickly to push the air out. You obviously need to keep a close eye on the reservoir levels as both are pretty small and will run down quickly. Best to have an assistant who can top up the reservoir as you go until all the air has disappeared in the bleed pipe. If you use this traditional method you should make sure there is no air in the top of the front brake system first by bleeding the master cylinder via its own nipple.

    The problem with this method is that you are actually trying to push the air bubbles down with only a small amount of fluid at each pump. I have found that it is easier to work in reverse. I got a piece of tube connected to a large plastic syringe body (about 120mls, I think it was). Connect the filled syringe body to the brake callipers via the bleed nipple and simply push the fluid into the system (having made sure there is no new air in the connecting tube). You can either empty the reservoir first so it refills (back brake) or connect a bleed pipe to the nipple on the front master cylinder so you can see the air coming out. If you need to refill the syringe just shut the nipples while you do it. As you are pushing air up through the system it doesn't really have any effect if there is a slight delay between pumps of the syringe. It doesn't seem to make any difference which front calliper you start with as the pipe runs are equal as they simply split at the bottom yoke rather than running to one calliper and then the other as on some bikes. I pushed a syringe full through one side to clear it and then switched to the other and completed the bleed process from there.

    You can buy all sorts of fancy vacuum and pump systems to do the job, but I found this method worked fine.

    One point to be wary of is to not let the system run dry. So if you are changing fluid, just add fresh fluid and bleed it through until you see the colour change as the new fluid will be lighter in colour. I accidentally let the fluid drain out of the front system when I was servicing the callipers which allowed air to get into the ABS pump. I managed to get it bled to the point where it was useable, but spongy and ended up having to take it to a dealer to get it hooked up to the computer to cycle the pump to clear the air out.

    One other trick is to smear a tiny amount of copper grease round the threads of the nipples. This not only makes them easier to undo next time, but also stops air and fluid from leaking in or out.
    2009 Mana GT ABS; Andreani fork cartridges with uprated springs; Dorsoduro hand guards and heated grips; 30mm handlebar risers; Digital tachograph: Modified woodcraft folding brake pedal; R&G frame sliders

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    Hi AndyT sorry for the late reply I have been away, thanks for the advise I will put it in to practice when I need to change the fluid.

    Keith

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    Problem with back feeding the brakes is that the calipers are the high wear components subjected to heat, dust and water having the most corrupt brake fluid in the system. When you back feed you are pushing all that dirty and corrosive brake fluid back through the system putting at risk a pretty expensive ABS pump, controller and valve which defeats the purpose of bleeding the brakes every 2 years which is to prevent that dirty corrosive fluid at the calipers from getting up the the ABS pump and controller or the master cylinders.

    Get the correct pressure bleeder with reservoir to do the job or a vacuum bleeder so it will be done clean and proper. Whatever you do don't push dirty fluid up through your ABS pump and controller forcing the brake fluid through backwards.

  5. #5
    apriliaforum Junkie AndyT's Avatar
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    Thanks for the clarification Rockynv. When I bled my system through it was because I had to strip the front callipers down as they were seized. So all the old fluid had been removed before I used the reverse bleed process.
    2009 Mana GT ABS; Andreani fork cartridges with uprated springs; Dorsoduro hand guards and heated grips; 30mm handlebar risers; Digital tachograph: Modified woodcraft folding brake pedal; R&G frame sliders

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    Good point Rockynv thanks for that.
    Keith

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    apriliaforum Junkie AndyT's Avatar
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    Found this on Ebay - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302415258482

    Not sure how good it is at the price, but I've ordered one as it is now 2 years since my brakes were rebuilt so coming up time to pull some clean fluid through.
    2009 Mana GT ABS; Andreani fork cartridges with uprated springs; Dorsoduro hand guards and heated grips; 30mm handlebar risers; Digital tachograph: Modified woodcraft folding brake pedal; R&G frame sliders

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    Andy I have a Draper unit which I am not very happy with, first of all I got a vacuum leak in the unit which I had to fix and secondly I managed to get brake fluid in the unit which caused havoc, dont let any fluid get in to the suction unit keep it above the collection tank and do not let the tank over fill as I did :-0, I have ordered the same as you for a replacement.
    Keith

  9. #9
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    I have been using a MityVac kit purchased at OReilly's about 10 years ago for around $29. I was stuck out on an abandoned air field having lost a caliper and had no helper available and had to bleed the brakes by myself on a 35 foot bus after replacing the rear calipers after the pads came apart and the sparks burned right through the boot on the piston destroying it. Saved me from a 100+ mile tow back to civilization. Glad I had most of the other tools required with me. Always bring my Aprilia on a rack mount just in case I get stuck needing to run out for a part, etc.

    This one is very similar:
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mityvac-MV...gAAOSwv9hW6nNR

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockynv View Post
    I have been using a MityVac kit purchased at OReilly's about 10 years ago for around $29. I was stuck out on an abandoned air field having lost a caliper and had no helper available and had to bleed the brakes by myself on a 35 foot bus after replacing the rear calipers after the pads came apart and the sparks burned right through the boot on the piston destroying it. Saved me from a 100+ mile tow back to civilization. Glad I had most of the other tools required with me. Always bring my Aprilia on a rack mount just in case I get stuck needing to run out for a part, etc.

    This one is very similar:
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mityvac-MV...gAAOSwv9hW6nNR
    more tools than brains... im sorry but that is very expensive and over complicating a very simple thing.

    pump the lever on the MC not that pos tool. a beer can taped to the caliper. fill beer can 1/4 full of dot4. then a 8 inch hose for bleeding going from the nipple into the fluid in the beer can. done..... we use cans because the pull tab holds the hose for you if you have any common sense at all.
    that is a closed system! customers pay me 100 dollars and hour.... and those bleed tools are useless to a large degree.
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  11. #11
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    You are correct in a lot of cases Subluncy but some systems require a different approach, BMW come to mind.

  12. #12
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    Thumbs up mana 850 ABS brake bleed

    I just got done bleeding my front brakes (got air in the line when I rerouted the line from the master cylinder) I first bleed the brakes in the "normal fashion" but could not get all the air out of the system. So I tie-wrapped the front brake lever to the bar and then put grease around the bleeder nipple on the master cylinder banjo bolt and put a hose on the nipple and into a bottle then hooked up a pressure bleeder to the nipple on the caliper. with about 7 psi in the bleeder bottle I ran fluid back up thru the system and let it go for a while after there were no bubbles visible. I then switched to the other caliper and did the same. When all done it seemed to be fine.

  13. #13
    apriliaforum prov-nov jpsplus's Avatar
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    all things have a second side at most cases.
    at mana with abs all above not "play", when air has passed in the abs pump.

    it need the electronic tool that have a function to bleed the abs pump.

    we used it last week when I change (service office) the last line from abs to caliper.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sublunacy View Post
    more tools than brains... im sorry but that is very expensive and over complicating a very simple thing.

    pump the lever on the MC not that pos tool. a beer can taped to the caliper. fill beer can 1/4 full of dot4. then a 8 inch hose for bleeding going from the nipple into the fluid in the beer can. done..... we use cans because the pull tab holds the hose for you if you have any common sense at all.
    that is a closed system! customers pay me 100 dollars and hour.... and those bleed tools are useless to a large degree.
    That probably adds another half hour to the bill using the tiny piston in the brake cylinder to pump through the entire system when a decent tool in the sub $30 range will get it done in minutes with less time having brake fluid exposed to atmosphere. Brake fluid is hydroscopic and absorbs humidity from the air when its exposed. I did it the old inefficient way for years hand pumping the master cylinder and won't take that big step backwards.

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