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Thread: Club Racing my 16 RR

  1. #136
    apriliaforum expert Didka's Avatar
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    Interesting write-up...
    Quick question though to understand completely..
    A. Did you try out Aprc-settings before high-siding, and if so... why do you think it didn't kick in?
    B. If it's a short race.. did you lower your tire pressure to have them quickly heat up (probabely, they won't detoriate after about 4-6 laps..)
    Congrats on racing a bike intended to race...

  2. #137
    apriliaforum expert aftriathlete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsnet View Post
    Being informed that the FW were using the same master cylinder PR16 but with ABS deleted, vin number not showing up.
    Here say from Brembo is that a small case (like a handful of bikes) have had failures, brake pump pressure not being the problem but if the ABS is set high (fast interventions of ABS)it’s jack-hammering down the brake line in extreme cases and prolonged frequency the piston could fail due to a weakness of the Material, also if the m/c has received a shock after a crash there’s a risk of failure.

    If your ABS settings are low (almost to zero) less intrusive then the risks are few, there are a batch ( build lot at Brembo) of bikes a of several makes effected by this recall not only Aprilia

    From memory, no RCS Brembo m/c were repairable, had to go back to the Factory, if your unsure, a new master cylinder may set you back 300$, replace with new and have the other exchanged for your ‘spare’
    ABS has been on 1, but I have only ever felt it activate on the track probably 3 or 4 times at the most, so perhaps I won’t worry about it for one more race round before I can get the recall done should it turn out my bike is actually affected.
    Quote Originally Posted by Didka View Post
    Interesting write-up...
    Quick question though to understand completely..
    A. Did you try out Aprc-settings before high-siding, and if so... why do you think it didn't kick in?
    B. If it's a short race.. did you lower your tire pressure to have them quickly heat up (probabely, they won't detoriate after about 4-6 laps..)
    Congrats on racing a bike intended to race...
    I’ve been running the Corse ECU with TC on 2. That has been a good balance for me between drive and slide. As for it kicking in, I think the TC works very well, it’s just not fool-proof. It’s a tool and it improves safety, but it doesn’t completely eliminate the chance of this happening. GP and WSBK electronics are much more advanced and even they can still high-side, so ultimately I think it was my fault, I should have made some adjustments for the tire temps. With that said, yes, I went out 25.5 hot off the warmers on the Diablo Superbike rear (I normally use 26-26.5) to try to help with building heat in the tire, but ultimately I think the pace was too slow and the air and track were too cold to really keep them warm before I tried to pull the trigger and take off when I got some open track in front of me.
    Former: 2016 RSV4 RR Race Bike
    Current: 2007 GSXR1000

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftriathlete View Post
    ABS has been on 1, but I have only ever felt it activate on the track probably 3 or 4 times at the most, so perhaps I won’t worry about it for one more race round before I can get the recall done should it turn out my bike is actually affected.

    I’ve been running the Corse ECU with TC on 2. That has been a good balance for me between drive and slide. As for it kicking in, I think the TC works very well, it’s just not fool-proof. It’s a tool and it improves safety, but it doesn’t completely eliminate the chance of this happening. GP and WSBK electronics are much more advanced and even they can still high-side, so ultimately I think it was my fault, I should have made some adjustments for the tire temps. With that said, yes, I went out 25.5 hot off the warmers on the Diablo Superbike rear (I normally use 26-26.5) to try to help with building heat in the tire, but ultimately I think the pace was too slow and the air and track were too cold to really keep them warm before I tried to pull the trigger and take off when I got some open track in front of me.
    Great insights! Does it make you consider increasing the TC setting to exchange drive for more safety margin? Maybe just when conditions are cold? Just curious no judgement I'm an ex-racer of much less powerful 125 GP bikes and I got a 2017' RR recently, will probably try and do a track day in february maybe at chuckwalla if you have recommendations for settings for a more casual track day. I don't have the corse ECU but I'm considering it mostly because I hear it reduces engine braking further?

    Thanks!

  4. #139
    apriliaforum expert Triple J's Avatar
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    Glad you didn't get hurt!

    Don't let the tire temp. get into your head too much. Based on your description, I'd bet it was only a small part of the equation. Those track and air temps aren't all that cool (hell, that's some nice racing weather here! ), and you can still rip on a tire that isn't quite up to temp. - I'm always amazed at the lap times our fast guys throw down on the first race lap, or the speed that Ken Hill and his instructors could carry when not even using tire warmers.

    The main problem was likely going too hot into the corner, causing you to carry excessive lean angle, which then couldn't support the throttle input you gave it. You probably would have been fine had you been able to pick the bike up onto the fat part of the tire prior to throttle input like normal - a coldish tire may have just given you a bit more slide. TC not preventing a high side indicates to me that you were really on the edge of the tire when you got on the throttle.

    Anyway - that's what it sounds like to me. Try not to let tire temps. get in your head is all - technique can overcome a cool tire.
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    2011 Aprilia RSV4 (race) For Sale: http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...ace-Track-Bike

  5. #140
    apriliaforum expert aftriathlete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gluge View Post
    Great insights! Does it make you consider increasing the TC setting to exchange drive for more safety margin? Maybe just when conditions are cold? Just curious no judgement I'm an ex-racer of much less powerful 125 GP bikes and I got a 2017' RR recently, will probably try and do a track day in february maybe at chuckwalla if you have recommendations for settings for a more casual track day. I don't have the corse ECU but I'm considering it mostly because I hear it reduces engine braking further?

    Thanks!
    You know, I don’t know yet. I don’t think I’ll change it, I’ll probably keep it on 2, but I guess we’ll see if I have any issues with getting confidence back or anything when I get back on the track.
    Quote Originally Posted by Triple J View Post
    Glad you didn't get hurt!

    Don't let the tire temp. get into your head too much. Based on your description, I'd bet it was only a small part of the equation. Those track and air temps aren't all that cool (hell, that's some nice racing weather here! ), and you can still rip on a tire that isn't quite up to temp. - I'm always amazed at the lap times our fast guys throw down on the first race lap, or the speed that Ken Hill and his instructors could carry when not even using tire warmers.

    The main problem was likely going too hot into the corner, causing you to carry excessive lean angle, which then couldn't support the throttle input you gave it. You probably would have been fine had you been able to pick the bike up onto the fat part of the tire prior to throttle input like normal - a coldish tire may have just given you a bit more slide. TC not preventing a high side indicates to me that you were really on the edge of the tire when you got on the throttle.

    Anyway - that's what it sounds like to me. Try not to let tire temps. get in your head is all - technique can overcome a cool tire.
    Valid, and I agree. In the last couple posts I’ve gotten away from talking about making a pass and being deep into the turn, but that’s 100% true, and I had to have been using more lean angle as a result. I think Ken Hill talks about having 100 total points between grip and lean angle, and if you increase in one you have to decrease in the other. And I didn’t do that and exceeded the limit, which was likely lower because of the cold tires. But I think the old tires was a condition and not a cause, what I did was the cause.
    Former: 2016 RSV4 RR Race Bike
    Current: 2007 GSXR1000

  6. #141
    apriliaforum expert Triple J's Avatar
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    Nick Ienatsch and Ken Hill both talk about that. It's a good explanation, even if a bit intuitive. Ken Hill is big on proper bike placement on the track, and it helps a ton. Made a huge difference for me in terms of consistency - my laps used to vary by over a second/lap pretty regularly. Now I can do a whole race with laps within 2 tenths. Now I just need to pick up the pace to podium speed...hard to do in the liter bike classes!

    If you haven't done a Ken Hill class, they're very good and worth the money IMO. Jake Gagne was an instructor at the class I attended, and he was great to watch. Precise in everything he did.
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    2013 KTM 990 SMT (street)
    2011 Aprilia RSV4 (race) For Sale: http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...ace-Track-Bike

  7. #142
    apriliaforum expert aftriathlete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple J View Post
    Nick Ienatsch and Ken Hill both talk about that. It's a good explanation, even if a bit intuitive. Ken Hill is big on proper bike placement on the track, and it helps a ton. Made a huge difference for me in terms of consistency - my laps used to vary by over a second/lap pretty regularly. Now I can do a whole race with laps within 2 tenths. Now I just need to pick up the pace to podium speed...hard to do in the liter bike classes!

    If you haven't done a Ken Hill class, they're very good and worth the money IMO. Jake Gagne was an instructor at the class I attended, and he was great to watch. Precise in everything he did.
    Man that would be cool to be coached by Jake. But I have looked into both JP43 and the Rickdiculous training (KH), and I would absolutely love to go but it's just exorbitantly expensive. $1300-1500 for a single day, which I'm sure is valuable, but that's two race rounds for me that I wouldn't get to race otherwise. It's a shame, both of them run out of Chuckwalla, and both of them are renowned coaches. But I can't touch that.
    Former: 2016 RSV4 RR Race Bike
    Current: 2007 GSXR1000

  8. #143
    apriliaforum expert Triple J's Avatar
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    Pricey for sure. I got lucky and the local trackday provider (2-Fast) teamed with him for a 2-day school. I think I paid $1K total for both days. It was a good deal considering that just 2 trackdays would have cost about $450.
    WMRRA #98
    2013 KTM 990 SMT (street)
    2011 Aprilia RSV4 (race) For Sale: http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...ace-Track-Bike

  9. #144
    apriliaforum expert aftriathlete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple J View Post
    Pricey for sure. I got lucky and the local trackday provider (2-Fast) teamed with him for a 2-day school. I think I paid $1K total for both days. It was a good deal considering that just 2 trackdays would have cost about $450.
    Yeah that would be very reasonable at that price point. I did California Superbike School a few years ago, and that was about $1000 for two days on my own bike if I remember right.
    Former: 2016 RSV4 RR Race Bike
    Current: 2007 GSXR1000

  10. #145
    apriliaforum expert aftriathlete's Avatar
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    So got some good news from ESP today -- the bike escaped without any major damage. Frame, swingarm, forks, and wheels are all within manufacturing tolerances. So I'm relieved to Know for sure, but I would have been very surprised if there was anything tweaked. As for me, I still have some lingering soreness in my elbow and shoulder especially, with my doc saying I at least have some bursitis/sprain type connective tissue strains and I might have some partial tears in my shoulder, but at this time it doesn't seem like it's anything they would need to go in and fix, so I just have to kind of take it easy and rehab it with some stretch bands. Overall though it feels solid enough to race in two weeks. So last piece I'm waiting on now is the new Brembo 19x18 GP Mk2 master cylinder I ordered today. There was just no possible way I could get the recall accomplished before the race weekend, so I figured I'd go with the trusty non-adjustable Brembo and eventually get the recall done on the OEM MC to have as a spare.
    Last edited by aftriathlete; 01-05-2018 at 10:37 AM.
    Former: 2016 RSV4 RR Race Bike
    Current: 2007 GSXR1000

  11. #146
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    Sounds like my shoulder and treatment. I did PT for 3 months then continue home exercises with the bands and weights.
    i did have an mri to make sure nothing was torn though.
    Current rigs:

    '16 Tuono RR -street
    '13 RSV4 -race
    '13 Harley Davidson Night Rod Special
    '13 Yamaha WR450F
    '12 GSXR 600 - race
    '07 GSXR 750 - race x 2
    '03 KDX 200
    '17 Tao Tao Hellcat - pit bike

  12. #147
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    Name:  7E49DACF-8C7F-4D75-9948-39AB1A324B73.jpeg
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Size:  27.8 KBI’ve been lucky in my 26 years of track/racing to get away very lightly. However four shoulder breaks from my previous cycling career, this last being the worst. Bone splinter tore muscle and nerve damage.
    Falls from two wheels we tend to land right on the ball of the shoulder, had several times muscle damage that prevented raising the arm above my head. Take your time on the recovery and only light weights with more repetitions is best.
    I have the bars set quite wide to ease leverage especially on the short twisting tracks this helps with endurance, also stops the pinching from the shoulders which increases blood flow.

    Awaiting your next post from race weekend
    Previous bikes : AR50 - AR80 - CB250N - RD350LC - RGV250 - VT400 - TDR250 - VIRAGO 535 - RF600 - RF900 - CBR600 - GSXR750 - TL1000R - T160 TRIUMPH - R1 - PIAGGIO - R6 - RC30 - 916SPS - VFR800 - 675 DAYTONA - CBR600RR - TL1000R - YZF750 - RSV4 FACTORY.

  13. #148
    apriliaforum expert aftriathlete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motoracerx View Post
    Sounds like my shoulder and treatment. I did PT for 3 months then continue home exercises with the bands and weights.
    i did have an mri to make sure nothing was torn though.
    How long ago? And how’s it now?

    Quote Originally Posted by rsnet View Post
    Name:  7E49DACF-8C7F-4D75-9948-39AB1A324B73.jpeg
Views: 138
Size:  27.8 KBI’ve been lucky in my 26 years of track/racing to get away very lightly. However four shoulder breaks from my previous cycling career, this last being the worst. Bone splinter tore muscle and nerve damage.
    Falls from two wheels we tend to land right on the ball of the shoulder, had several times muscle damage that prevented raising the arm above my head. Take your time on the recovery and only light weights with more repetitions is best.
    I have the bars set quite wide to ease leverage especially on the short twisting tracks this helps with endurance, also stops the pinching from the shoulders which increases blood flow.

    Awaiting your next post from race weekend
    Yikes, I used to competitively cycle and race triathlons as well, and I saw a couple collarbone breaks over the years, never my own luckily. I’m doing just what you said, light weights and bands and a lot of volume. And I have a PT working on it 2-3 times a week, massage and mobility type stuff. It’s definitelt strong enough to continue the season, just sore and somewhat annoying. I’ll post up after CVMA Round 4 in 2 weeks!
    Former: 2016 RSV4 RR Race Bike
    Current: 2007 GSXR1000

  14. #149
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    Mine was about 2 yrs ago....but it acts up. I'm laid off from work for the winter here, so I start my home PT during the work and bike off season.
    It gets plenty exercise and PT when im working.

    It snaps, crackles and pops. Doc said i have the one of the biggest AC joints he's ever seen. I have impingement issues as well. It comes and goes.
    I'll take ibuprofen as if it were a prescription when it starts to flare up. 800 mg every 6 hours for a few days or a week at a time.
    Current rigs:

    '16 Tuono RR -street
    '13 RSV4 -race
    '13 Harley Davidson Night Rod Special
    '13 Yamaha WR450F
    '12 GSXR 600 - race
    '07 GSXR 750 - race x 2
    '03 KDX 200
    '17 Tao Tao Hellcat - pit bike

  15. #150
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    Sorry if it's answered somewhere in this thread (I don't know how to search and find posts within threads) But what gearing do you use when racing at most of these tracks? Do you change gearing per track usually or stick with one gearing? Also how did you get your wheel base long? did you use a longer length chain? what length? Thanks!!

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