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Thread: To keep, to sell or upgrade to 70cc

  1. #31
    apriliaforum Junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by sublunacy View Post
    if you like driving a light switch similiar to first gear then you should be a drag racer.
    Well what can you do. More power = less durability. Goes without saying.

    Im not going back to stock crank. Not going to deal with opening the block just to put something stock in there. No. It needs to be stronger.

    My real concern is the noise tho. Isnt there a way to make it go faster without getting too loud? In my opinion the leo vince touring was perfect in that way.

    And why should it be a light switch, on /off? Why cant I adjust the off the line movement with rollers, contra spring and clutch springs? Or do you mean that these tuned machines are se peaky at they dont move at all untill you give them 8000 rpm?
    Aprilia SR 50 2008 Silver Crowd
    Aprilia RS 50 2003 SBK Replica

  2. #32
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    the best full kits are the malossi period. they make 10hp below 9000rpm on the replica bbk and the malossi exhaust. it works perfectly with sport vario. yes a full circle crank aswell. its the exhaust that keeps it from melting like the s6. high primary compression is not the goal. it is the result of moving the transfers and powering the exhaust return pulse.

    your looking at dyno images but your brain is getting bent over and taking a stiff one.

    explain how you can beat malossi full kits.
    sport is 8hp at 8000rpm.
    replica is 10hp at 8600rpm
    race is 20hp at 12000rpm.
    ---
    now try and explain how the race cylinder makes 20hp at 12000rpm when the torque is the same as the replica bbk running 10hp at 8600rpm. hmmm hp 100 percent higher and rpm only changed 50 percent........ torque is the same of course for both kits.

    explain this function of hp. i bet you a thousand dollars your your not smart but a great copycat like myself.

    -- my apology but explain how installing other peoples parts...................
    --- diploma for engine repair in 2012 ---

    derbi bullet 2006 - piaggio AC - malossi T.C. half - custom GPS dash - TPR 70CC - topperf crank - vl13 reed and spacer- yamaha rt180 kickstand - giannelli shotV4 - phbg 21mm - doppler mesh top venturi filter

    complete wtp volta bmx 2012 - sanko seamless japanese cromoly heat treated and blue printed frame - 21lbs

    1992 lt250r suzuki quadracer - maier plastics -chromed shearer pipe - chromed works suspension - ++++++++ - 220lbs

    previous vehicles - subaru legacy turbo 1991 - mazda mx6 turbo 1990.

  3. #33
    apriliaforum Junkie
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    Lets keep in topic instead of going "who is smart and who isnt". I understand that youre young and perhaps enthusiast but bare in mind that if something works for you, it doesnt automatically mean it fits everyone. Got it?

    Dynosheets can be quite helpful actually. I believe in those rather than the sale pitches. Alltho independent ones are hard to find.

    I also believe that upper spot bbk are more torque than the hig end ones. Sure. Coz they have to last. That is obvious.

    But lets say Ill fit a malossi mhr 70cc replica. There is a malossi pipe for it yes but it doesnt perform aswell as the yasuni c16 so why go for malossi pipe? I dont think 500rmp higher pipe makes much difference in durability. Not atleast when you have a crank that is specced to last 16krpm.

    And correct me if im wrong. My bike did somewhere between 85-90km/h but it was screaming. Dont know cause lack of rpm meter but dont you think i would have benefit from a higher gear -setup? I would have achievd 100km/h with less rpm. Guess my bike would be still running.

    So new setup in mind:

    -Malossi MHR Replica 70cc
    -exhaust malossi replica
    -malossi/stage6 crank
    -c4 bearings
    -21mm dellorto with quick jet changeability
    -new vario, malossi/stage6
    -new clutch, malossi/stage6
    -longer gears

    -With the yasuni, you cannot keep the central stand. Can you keep it with malossi mhr replica pipe?

    -Could I still go with oilpump?

    -Could I run with stock airbox?
    Last edited by Ärräksä; 09-09-2016 at 08:11 AM.
    Aprilia SR 50 2008 Silver Crowd
    Aprilia RS 50 2003 SBK Replica

  4. #34
    apriliaforum newb
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    Read my real life testing "Stage 6 quality" thread. I discribe there my test with rev counter, temp meter and GPS.
    http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...ality-problems
    Was using City 16 and Giannelli Reverse with stock airfilter and stock gears. And u can keep the central stand too. I have heared taht even with carrera 16 you can keep the central stand but not 100% sure (hyper 2 engine ) you can add spacer so you can move the pipe little bit away from central stand.
    I have used MHR replica exhaoust it s not good pipe at all i must say. Sound and performance not good. Very poor top speed.

  5. #35
    apriliaforum Member
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    if i were you i'd go for the first setup you said but with a few changes;
    -c4 skf bearings and seals
    -Stage6 HPC 12mm crank
    -21mm stage 6 dellorto carb and any airfilter of your choice (i recommend one of the doppler ones which are like mini airboxes so no problems with rain getting in)
    -A box of jets ranging from about 80-120 (start at about 105)
    -Stage6 inlet manifold kit with reedblock
    -Stage6 Sport Pro 70cc (MK2) cylinder
    -Yasuni c16 city (i had one and it was quite quiet, was quieter than the stage 6 pro replica i used to have and it can also be used with the centre stand)
    -stage 6 1:3.00 gearing kit
    -stage6 sport pro variator and buy a few sets of rollers (4.5g, 5g, 5.5g)
    -stage6 torque control mk2 and get a set of the red hard springs
    -new stock piaggio belt (works the best imo, all the others end up shredding themselves)
    -rpm gauge which will help with setting the bike up
    Also my stage 6 sport pro mk2 never had "melting problems" like the other guy was talking about, it's had well over 5000miles on it in my friends bike and not a single problem so far Just make sure when you first start it to let it warm up fully and let it cool fully and then warm it fully again and take it easy for the first 50 miles or so varying the rpm alot and don't forget to use some good 2 stroke oil
    Black Sr50r 2014

    Current mods


    Stage 6 RT 70
    Stage 6 RT crank
    Flowed engine case
    Stage 6 R 1400 with RT end can
    Stage 6 water pump
    Doppler inner rotor ignition
    Stage 6 R/T shock absorber
    stage 6 v force 3 reed block
    Stage 6 black f1 mirrors
    Stage 6 112mm clutch with Malossi MHR black springs (Much better than the stage 6 springs )
    Stage 6 oversize variator 5.0g rollers
    Stage 6 oversize rear pulley
    Stage 6 oversize belt
    Stage 6 medium torque spring
    Ngk b-e 10.5 spark plug
    BGM boost bottle
    Stage 6 metal inlet manifold
    Stage 6 28mm RT flatside PWK- 122 main jet second clip down
    No airfilter (won't run with one )
    stage 6 1:2.53 gear up kit
    Top speed- fast......

    Next mods

    Mvt Premium inner rotor ignition








  6. #36
    apriliaforum Junkie
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    That seems pretty good setup there TheSnipez

    What do you think about the malossi mhr replica 70cc? With two piston rings, dont you think it would be more durable?

    You would think that the stage6 pro pipe would be the best choice to stage6 70cc sport pro but they dont seem to sell them nomore. Then again... wouldnt the mhr replica pipe be the best option for 70cc mhr replica cylinder? I could keep my center stand with that too, right?

    I've heard that yasuni c16 city is not at all close to the power that c16 makes. Guess you heard a lot of things. I really have no use for homologation but I really need my center stand.

    I own a LeoVince ZXR. That is out of the question with these kind of upper sport setups, right?

    So no way of using stock airbox? OK. Ill look into those doppler closed ones.

    How about oil pump? Did you dare to run it or did you just premix?

    EDIT: did some calculating and from scooter-attack you could get all this for about 1000e with the stage6 instrument. Has all the stuff in stock except for the 21mm dellorto.

    Guess thats about the price this stuff costs unless someone has a better place in mind?
    Last edited by Ärräksä; 09-12-2016 at 06:20 AM. Reason: price info
    Aprilia SR 50 2008 Silver Crowd
    Aprilia RS 50 2003 SBK Replica

  7. #37
    apriliaforum Member
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    My friend had a malossi mhr replica and while it will probably last longer it's also quite a lot more expensive and it made nowhere near the power of the stage 6 sport pro mk2 and yeah i once tried to buy one i nowhere sells them at all and nope, i think the mhr replica exhaust is meant to be quite bad compared to the other options. I have also heard about this but i think i saw something about the exhaust having its peak power about 500rpm lower down in the rev range, my SR with the c16 city was quicker than my friends aerox with a normal c16 when we both had stage 6 racing mk2's so the difference can't be that much and the leo vince would probably be fine but the bike would be much quicker with a c16 city and i've found that the leo vince gets really loud after a while because the end can isn't made very well while my yasuni stayed damn quiet and muted. Also i did use the oil pump but i turned up the amount of oil it pumped and added a bit to the fuel tank and got a new oil pump belt just to be safe. Also I find scooterattack to have the best prices and largest selection and you could get the polini cp21, i had one and it was pretty nice and the small doppler airfilters/airboxes fit on really well, you have to dremel out the rubber though because the air filter connector is just a bit too small and secure the airfilter on somehow, i managed to lose 2 of them from them falling off when going fast XD. it would be hard to use the stock airbox though because the manifold changes the angle at which the carb sits, my friend to keep the airfilter completley protected drilled a hole into his seat and routed a pipe into it and put an airfilter on it.
    Black Sr50r 2014

    Current mods


    Stage 6 RT 70
    Stage 6 RT crank
    Flowed engine case
    Stage 6 R 1400 with RT end can
    Stage 6 water pump
    Doppler inner rotor ignition
    Stage 6 R/T shock absorber
    stage 6 v force 3 reed block
    Stage 6 black f1 mirrors
    Stage 6 112mm clutch with Malossi MHR black springs (Much better than the stage 6 springs )
    Stage 6 oversize variator 5.0g rollers
    Stage 6 oversize rear pulley
    Stage 6 oversize belt
    Stage 6 medium torque spring
    Ngk b-e 10.5 spark plug
    BGM boost bottle
    Stage 6 metal inlet manifold
    Stage 6 28mm RT flatside PWK- 122 main jet second clip down
    No airfilter (won't run with one )
    stage 6 1:2.53 gear up kit
    Top speed- fast......

    Next mods

    Mvt Premium inner rotor ignition








  8. #38
    apriliaforum Junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSnipez View Post
    if i were you i'd go for the first setup you said but with a few changes;
    -c4 skf bearings and seals
    -Stage6 HPC 12mm crank
    -21mm stage 6 dellorto carb and any airfilter of your choice (i recommend one of the doppler ones which are like mini airboxes so no problems with rain getting in)
    -A box of jets ranging from about 80-120 (start at about 105)
    -Stage6 inlet manifold kit with reedblock
    -Stage6 Sport Pro 70cc (MK2) cylinder
    -Yasuni c16 city (i had one and it was quite quiet, was quieter than the stage 6 pro replica i used to have and it can also be used with the centre stand)
    -stage 6 1:3.00 gearing kit
    -stage6 sport pro variator and buy a few sets of rollers (4.5g, 5g, 5.5g)
    -stage6 torque control mk2 and get a set of the red hard springs
    -new stock piaggio belt (works the best imo, all the others end up shredding themselves)
    -rpm gauge which will help with setting the bike up
    Also my stage 6 sport pro mk2 never had "melting problems" like the other guy was talking about, it's had well over 5000miles on it in my friends bike and not a single problem so far Just make sure when you first start it to let it warm up fully and let it cool fully and then warm it fully again and take it easy for the first 50 miles or so varying the rpm alot and don't forget to use some good 2 stroke oil
    I've been thinking about it and it seems that this pretty much is the pefrect setup for my everyday use and still remains realiable and quite powerful.

    I think Im going to have more questions in the future when Im installing this stuff but Id like to start with the rpm range.

    What is the rough optimal rpm that this setup makes the most power? Im asking so I can start to setup variator and clutch.

    Also for the optimal acceleration. What would be the rough rpm point for the clutch to engage?
    Aprilia SR 50 2008 Silver Crowd
    Aprilia RS 50 2003 SBK Replica

  9. #39
    apriliaforum Member
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    If you have any more questions just ask me. I've had every stage 6 cylinder apart from the rt 95 XD. Also I ran mine at 11000 rpm, i think i used 5g rollers and a stage 6 medium strength torque spring to get it to that but im not sure and i'd say aim for 6000 or 7000 rpm, the torque control clutch makes it really easy to change the rpm at which you set off and also add to the parts list a stage 6 clutch bell and a bearing for the gear kit.
    Black Sr50r 2014

    Current mods


    Stage 6 RT 70
    Stage 6 RT crank
    Flowed engine case
    Stage 6 R 1400 with RT end can
    Stage 6 water pump
    Doppler inner rotor ignition
    Stage 6 R/T shock absorber
    stage 6 v force 3 reed block
    Stage 6 black f1 mirrors
    Stage 6 112mm clutch with Malossi MHR black springs (Much better than the stage 6 springs )
    Stage 6 oversize variator 5.0g rollers
    Stage 6 oversize rear pulley
    Stage 6 oversize belt
    Stage 6 medium torque spring
    Ngk b-e 10.5 spark plug
    BGM boost bottle
    Stage 6 metal inlet manifold
    Stage 6 28mm RT flatside PWK- 122 main jet second clip down
    No airfilter (won't run with one )
    stage 6 1:2.53 gear up kit
    Top speed- fast......

    Next mods

    Mvt Premium inner rotor ignition








  10. #40
    apriliaforum newb
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    Aug 2016
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    Name:  leovince.jpg
Views: 65
Size:  113.3 KB
    According to this chart Sport Pro peaks 600 rpm earlier then my streetrace cylinder. I get best acceleration @ 10 000rpm in real life.
    Then I think best spot would be between 9500-10000 rpm with city 16.
    @11k would have same acceleration but takes more fuel and more stressfull for engine.
    And if you like take off what makes your front wheel fly you need extra strong clutch springs.
    At the moment I am using Stage 6 adjustable clutch and Malossi MHR blue springs from Delta clutch. I might even try black springs.
    Those orange springs what came with the clutch are too soft.
    Last edited by akkit; 10-07-2016 at 01:51 AM.
    Aprilia SR50 Street piaggio hyper 2 carb
    (daily driver)

    SETUP


    Stage 6 Streetrace 70cc
    Yasuni CITY 16
    Malossi MHR small end bearing
    17,5mm carb/78 mainjet/32 pilot/stock airfilter
    Malossi carbon reeds
    Malossi overrange/5.75g rollers
    Malossi purple torque spring
    Stage 6 MKII clutch + R/T 460g bell/Malossi MHR red springs
    Max speed: 102,5km/h GPS @ 10300rpm



    COMING NEXT


    6gr rollers
    Might try other torque drive angle



  11. #41
    apriliaforum expert
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    if you look at dyno images with the torque line it will be alot more usefull and real world results will start to match the the image.

    ---
    your looking at the hp wich is nothing more than a reference point for cvt gearing.

    ---
    all you feel is the torque and the change in final drive ratio wich will have more leverage......
    --- diploma for engine repair in 2012 ---

    derbi bullet 2006 - piaggio AC - malossi T.C. half - custom GPS dash - TPR 70CC - topperf crank - vl13 reed and spacer- yamaha rt180 kickstand - giannelli shotV4 - phbg 21mm - doppler mesh top venturi filter

    complete wtp volta bmx 2012 - sanko seamless japanese cromoly heat treated and blue printed frame - 21lbs

    1992 lt250r suzuki quadracer - maier plastics -chromed shearer pipe - chromed works suspension - ++++++++ - 220lbs

    previous vehicles - subaru legacy turbo 1991 - mazda mx6 turbo 1990.

  12. #42
    apriliaforum expert
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    Jul 2015
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    post as many dyno images you want.... i could go on and on.... cheers!
    --- diploma for engine repair in 2012 ---

    derbi bullet 2006 - piaggio AC - malossi T.C. half - custom GPS dash - TPR 70CC - topperf crank - vl13 reed and spacer- yamaha rt180 kickstand - giannelli shotV4 - phbg 21mm - doppler mesh top venturi filter

    complete wtp volta bmx 2012 - sanko seamless japanese cromoly heat treated and blue printed frame - 21lbs

    1992 lt250r suzuki quadracer - maier plastics -chromed shearer pipe - chromed works suspension - ++++++++ - 220lbs

    previous vehicles - subaru legacy turbo 1991 - mazda mx6 turbo 1990.

  13. #43
    apriliaforum expert
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    yea the city 16. a 19mm cp carb. vforce reed.

    --
    cylinder and crank could be-
    top perf standard crank and trophy 70cc. 5 out of 5 smileys
    stage6 streetrace
    airsal 2 ring race bbk with the matching full cromo crankshaft wich is worth the extra 100....
    malossi pro replica and the airsal cromo crank shaft.
    ----
    i cant think of anything else but top perf has alot of great stuff. they have regular and hpc crankshafts that is the second best choice if the airsal cromo is to expensive.
    --- diploma for engine repair in 2012 ---

    derbi bullet 2006 - piaggio AC - malossi T.C. half - custom GPS dash - TPR 70CC - topperf crank - vl13 reed and spacer- yamaha rt180 kickstand - giannelli shotV4 - phbg 21mm - doppler mesh top venturi filter

    complete wtp volta bmx 2012 - sanko seamless japanese cromoly heat treated and blue printed frame - 21lbs

    1992 lt250r suzuki quadracer - maier plastics -chromed shearer pipe - chromed works suspension - ++++++++ - 220lbs

    previous vehicles - subaru legacy turbo 1991 - mazda mx6 turbo 1990.

  14. #44
    apriliaforum Junkie
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    Been thiking this theoretical question in my mind.

    Obviously it would be THE optimal choice to have a setup thats in line in every way but as we know thats only the optimal side, then there is the reality because of various reasons.

    So. If I have a setup thas has a cylinder that makes it peak power at 11krpm and a pipe that makes peak power at 10krpm. Do I change the rollers so that the bike runs at 10krpm or 11krpm?
    Aprilia SR 50 2008 Silver Crowd
    Aprilia RS 50 2003 SBK Replica

  15. #45
    apriliaforum expert
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    peak torque is the place to put the rpms for best top speed. peak hp is for max accel. they are allways 500rpm apart. if the hp looks like it levels off then the torque has all ready started to fall away.
    ----
    what setup are you talking about?
    what kind of parts do you have laying around? maybe we can figure out a few paths to victory
    --- diploma for engine repair in 2012 ---

    derbi bullet 2006 - piaggio AC - malossi T.C. half - custom GPS dash - TPR 70CC - topperf crank - vl13 reed and spacer- yamaha rt180 kickstand - giannelli shotV4 - phbg 21mm - doppler mesh top venturi filter

    complete wtp volta bmx 2012 - sanko seamless japanese cromoly heat treated and blue printed frame - 21lbs

    1992 lt250r suzuki quadracer - maier plastics -chromed shearer pipe - chromed works suspension - ++++++++ - 220lbs

    previous vehicles - subaru legacy turbo 1991 - mazda mx6 turbo 1990.

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