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Thread: Urgent service message, tons of white smoke

  1. #31
    apriliaforum Member
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    They can service them?! I called all over ga the past two days and could only find savannah
    2008 R6, 2003 Honda 919, 2005 Honda 919, 2008 Shiver

  2. #32
    apriliaforum expert vtwin_pilot's Avatar
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    LPcox628, yes, Savannah is the sole remaining dealer in GA. Hard to believe, but it seems Aprilia has scared off or been apathetic to the closing of the few Atlanta metro area dealers that used to be around. They apparently treat their dealer base as shoddily as they do their customer base. How this management team stays in place is beyond me. Aprilia does make some wicked awesome bikes, so they do sell themselves. But having owned and been around Aprilia now for a dozen years, I can only shake my head at the bumbling incompetence of Aprilia USA.

  3. #33
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    I will hopefully not have to ride out there to have them fix mine. I live near Athens and its almost 4 hours to go out there and spend way too much money for a sensor. hopefully in the next year or two i can upgrade to a tuono
    2008 R6, 2003 Honda 919, 2005 Honda 919, 2008 Shiver

  4. #34
    apriliaforum expert firemoto's Avatar
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    VT, have you gotten the old engine out yet? are you interested in selling it off?
    '09 Dorsoduro 750
    '95 Kawasaki ZX-6R "project bike"

  5. #35
    apriliaforum expert vtwin_pilot's Avatar
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    Update:

    I scored an unbelievable deal on ebay for a new-in-crate engine. Funny thing is, I'd seen it about 3 months ago and between seeing it and calling AF1 to see if a newer '13 engine would be compatible with my '08, the engine sold! I was totally bummed but figured it simply wasn't meant to be.

    Until....a few weeks ago when I'm trolling on ebay for a used engine again and I see...the same new engine! I pushed the "Buy it now" button in about 0.001 seconds bc in the time since losing the first auction, I'd verified that the engine would be a drop in and might only need a wiring harness (which it turns out I didn't), so I knew it'd likely work fine. Turns out the buyer was overseas and didn't want to pay $1500 for shipping and had to renege on the deal. His loss, my gain.

    Even sweeter was that it was only 2 hrs away, so off I went to pick it up. Indeed, the engine was as the seller advertised: new, in crate, in perfect, brand-new condition. I hauled it home and thus began the work of disassembling and yanking out the Shiv's old heart to prepare her for the heart transplant.

    It was my first foray into engine replacement. I have to say the shop manual was fairly clear and helpful, even with its odd Italianish and sometimes it'd skip a small step they must assume all mechanics know. But overall, it helped tons.

    I labeled all connectors with masking tape, grouped all fasteners into paper Dixie cups, and took plenty of pics to keep things organized. Beyond that, it wasn't overly difficult. Using a neighbor's Harbor Freight hydraulic bike lift, I put it under the engine before pulling out the three engine bolts, removed the bolts and, along with a buddy, guided it down and out. I'd also jacked up the front end a foot or so in order to make more room for engine removal/replacement. (and then suspended the front wheel by the handlebars using ratcheting tie-down straps looped through eye hooks in the ceiling joists)

    With the old one out, the new one slid in fairly easily, again, with a buddy's help. I'd never have been able to do it solo. With the new engine in, I spent the last week reconnecting all connectors, replacing all parts, buttoning everything up, and putting Humpty Dumpty back together again.

    Which culminated in....her firing up last night just fine! I was worried I'd missed a connector somewhere, or did something wrong during reassembly, or that the engine or wiring harness weren't compatible but alas, it seems all's well. I let it run for a few minutes to get up to temp. It blew some smoke out of the exhaust but that's just residual oil in the header burning off from when the old engine blew, and then blew oil and metal bits (which I cleaned out) into the exhaust. I couldn't ride it though bc during disassembly, I'd dumped the clutch fluid when I took off the clutch control cylinder and didn't refill/bleed, but I'll do that tonight so I can finally get to ride it.

    It's been a saga for the past year. My engine blew in August of 2015, so after a year sans bike, I'm glad to finally be back in the saddle. It's been a long year. Aprillia Corporate has been completely derelict, offering zero help. This forum has been golden.

    I don't have any plans to keep the old engine, so if anyone's interested, PM me. Firemoto, I'll send you a PM.

    One last thing. Here's a peek into the intake port of the rear head. You can plainly see the destruction in there. One valve head dropped and the other valve shaft is bent. The exhaust valves are in the same shape. That explains the how, but perhaps not the why, the root cause. Still not sure what actually caused this failure. I took off the head cover but all looked fine in there. Nothing looked obviously destroyed or out of sorts.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by vtwin_pilot; 09-07-2016 at 12:11 PM.

  6. #36
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    You were very lucky to find that new engine, top marks and respect for successfully performing the operation.

  7. #37
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    you can still part out that old engine. Still plenty of good stuff in it I'm sure. Gears and what not. Glad you finally got it sorted out. How much was the new engine?

    maybe a cam failed.. I guess the bike kept running on 1 cylinder while you were idled on the side of the road.

  8. #38
    apriliaforum expert High Country's Avatar
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    That's great news! It has been a long time, but you did it. Much cheaper than replacing your perfectly good bike, too.

    If you weren't on the other side of the country I'd take that dead engine off your hands. Like the overseas buyer, however, shipping knocks me out of the equation.

    The bent valve indicates a timing problem, but I don't know how that could have happened and the bike still run at all. Maybe a valve broke, or a valve spring. It's rare, but does happen to all makes of bikes. What a shame Aprilia was no help. Even if they wouldn't cover it, it would have been nice of them to discuss solutions with you. It sounds like AF1 backs the brand better than Aprilia itself.

    I still think it'd make a nice table...or maybe beer tap.

    Last edited by High Country; 09-07-2016 at 05:26 PM.
    2009 Aprilia Dosoduro 750 (Adventurized: http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/a...893274&thumb=1)

  9. #39
    apriliaforum expert vtwin_pilot's Avatar
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    Thanks guys, appreciate the words of support.

    I picked the engine up for under a grand. It was a total bargain. The guy who sold it wasn't in the bike biz and I think had bought it at an auction and had no idea what he had or what to do with it, and said he just wanted to get rid of it.

    HC, you might be right that it was a broken spring. I'd have to tear into deeply to find out, and I really would rather just sell it or part it out. The beer tap/side table ideas are sweet, I like your thinking. After this whole engine swap ordeal, I know I sure could use a beer or three!
    Last edited by vtwin_pilot; 09-08-2016 at 07:31 AM.

  10. #40
    apriliaforum expert vtwin_pilot's Avatar
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    I took it for a test ride tonight and a problem cropped up...the dreaded Urgent Service message with the red triangle....

    I started the bike for the first time yesterday and ran it for about five minutes, shut it down, did it again, ran it for another few minutes, and then later on, started it again.

    Tonight, I went on the first actual ride for about 20 minutes. Exactly as I got back home into the driveway, the engine cut out and the urgent service message came on. I started it up again and it stayed running for maybe 20 seconds and then stalled. Did it three more times with the same result.

    I checked the dashboard errors and there were none active but two in memory (MEM), #1 and #8. I cleared them hoping that'd make a difference but of course it didn't. I started it up and it stalled again after about 17 seconds (this time I timed it).

    Two small clues. When I started the engine for the very first time after the installation, while it was sitting there idling, I notice the speedo showed a speed. It varied a bit but was maybe 6 or 8 mph, then dipped down a bit, then went to zero. It did it another time too but always rezeroed itself. I figured it was the sensor righting or calibrating itself but now I suspect it may be involved in this issue. The other clue is, after it stalled a couple of times after about 20 seconds after start-up, I fired it up again and the RPMs went a bit crazy, from the normal 1500 or so to a surge of maybe, well, not sure, bc it happened so fast, but maybe up to 2500 or so? Again, it was quick and then went back to normal before finally stalling. Not sure if the speedo thing and this RPM surge are related to...maybe a sensor? Speed sensor?

    I'm hoping it's a simple problem but with no way to check for errors, am I doomed to taking this to the dealer (5 hrs away)? I've read about guys who buy the gear to read the codes. Is that something fairly simple and should I consider it? Does anyone check their own codes?
    Last edited by vtwin_pilot; 09-08-2016 at 07:35 AM.

  11. #41
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    Sorry if stupid but as a new owner of a Shiver all I've read about Urgent Service issues out of the blue is about the infamous air pressure sensors. They're inside the airbox so you haven't changed them alongside the new engine. Should be part n.638562. They surely haven't caused your original issue, but maybe concurred giving wrong readings to the ECU and who knows what else.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by vtwin_pilot View Post
    I took it for a test ride tonight and a problem cropped up...the dreaded Urgent Service message with the red triangle....

    I started the bike for the first time yesterday and ran it for about five minutes, shut it down, did it again, ran it for another few minutes, and then later on, started it again.

    Tonight, I went on the first actual ride for about 20 minutes. Exactly as I got back home into the driveway, the engine cut out and the urgent service message came on. I started it up again and it stayed running for maybe 20 seconds and then stalled. Did it three more times with the same result.

    I checked the dashboard errors and there were none active but two in memory (MEM), #1 and #8. I cleared them hoping that'd make a difference but of course it didn't. I started it up and it stalled again after about 17 seconds (this time I timed it).

    Two small clues. When I started the engine for the very first time after the installation, while it was sitting there idling, I notice the speedo showed a speed. It varied a bit but was maybe 6 or 8 mph, then dipped down a bit, then went to zero. It did it another time too but always rezeroed itself. I figured it was the sensor righting or calibrating itself but now I suspect it may be involved in this issue. The other clue is, after it stalled a couple of times after about 20 seconds after start-up, I fired it up again and the RPMs went a bit crazy, from the normal 1500 or so to a surge of maybe, well, not sure, bc it happened so fast, but maybe up to 2500 or so? Again, it was quick and then went back to normal before finally stalling. Not sure if the speedo thing and this RPM surge are related to...maybe a sensor? Speed sensor?

    I'm hoping it's a simple problem but with no way to check for errors, am I doomed to taking this to the dealer (5 hrs away)? I've read about guys who buy the gear to read the codes. Is that something fairly simple and should I consider it? Does anyone check their own codes?
    maybe you have metal shavings on your exhaust O2 sensor? Maybe that will mess things up a bit. Otherwise... man that sucks. Maybe just a loose connection???

  13. #43
    apriliaforum expert vtwin_pilot's Avatar
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    Rostuff - the new engine I installed came with a new airbox, which I also installed, so that means the air pressure sensors are new. So hopefully that's not the issue. I have the old airbox so I could, if the sensors are in doubt, replace the new sensors with the old ones.

    Radical - anything's possible at this point. I tried to clean out the bits as best I could but perhaps I should take off the exhaust and clean it again, along with the lambda sensor.

    Ultimately, I'd like to be able to read the ECU code(s). I've seen that guys on the forum here are doing just that:

    http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...-Dorsoduro-750

    There are 10 pages worth of threads and every page seems to list a different combo of cords from ebay that work or don't work. I can't say I've quite come to a conclusion about what setup actually works. But I know that using this software along with the patch cords, of which two seem to be needed:

    http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

    Anyone here had success with this? If so, would you mind posting up which cords worked and what you did to get it to work and read ECU?

    I think my only hope in solving this is to get a hold on the ECU codes. Otherwise, I'm groping in the dark and it could be one of many things. Man, why'd they make it so hard to read the codes? To force us to go to the dealer? Sheesh.

  14. #44
    apriliaforum expert High Country's Avatar
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    Make it hard to read the codes to push us to a dealer, then provide no support as to insure a broad network of dealers...yeah, that sounds like Aprilia.

    I seem to remember reading about similar rpm issues that were eventually solved by "calibrating the throttle bodies". I would not be surprised if a new engine needed this upon installation. I cannot think how that would be related to the odd speedometer readings, though. Maybe the speedo needs calibration as well, but I wouldn't think so. That could be a separate issue caused by a loose connection. You might try packing the related connections with dielectric grease if you haven't already done so.
    2009 Aprilia Dosoduro 750 (Adventurized: http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/a...893274&thumb=1)

  15. #45
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    maybe call AF1 or in general an aprilia shop and see if there is anything special you need to do with an engine swap that you missed.

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