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Thread: Wiring Mod for charging issues.

  1. #751
    apriliaforum Member Cipher's Avatar
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    Question

    Could anyone explain the oil leaking down the wires a little better other than describing it as positive pressure from the stator or something or other? That's kind of confusing to me. All I know is that my white connector should be white and not a brown, oily color and there shouldn't be oil on the spades. I find it pretty alarming that oil is getting into the wiring loom. It should be in the engine, not my electrics! Is it a result of adding too much oil?

    Also what would happen in the case of the connectors being taken totally out of the equation? Wouldn't oil more easily make its way to the regulator if the connectors were cut out and the wires soldered together? Would that damage the regulator in some way if the oil actually got into the regulator?

  2. #752
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    My charging system experience

    I just bought a 2003 Futura in May, and was having intermittent, sluggish starting issues. After reading the LENGTHY discussions and opinions, I went the straight route according to the service manual.

    Bottom line: Regulator from bikpaintr (John B.) solved the problem.

    1) Installed a new battery, Yuasa YTX12-BS from Scuderia West in San Francisco (great dealer). Still had sluggish starting after a few days (charge most likely dropped)
    2) Checked the standard charge voltage at the battery: 13.25 V at idle, 13.00 at 4000 RPM. Weak, same as old battery.
    3) Checked all connections and grounds in the charging circuit, everything OK, same standard charge voltage. Brown connector had already been eliminated with good solder connections.
    4) Checked the open circuit alternator voltage: all combinations of the 3 terminals were > 60 V AC.
    5) Installed alternator from John B, had to clip off the male brown connector and solder the 3 wires.

    Result: Standard charge voltage at battery: 14.4 V at idle, 14.1 at 4000 RPM.

    Thanks forum and John B.!


  3. #753
    apriliaforum expert bikpaintr's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Cipher;2567474]Could anyone explain the oil leaking down the wires a little better other than describing it as positive pressure from the stator or something or other? That's kind of confusing to me. All I know is that my white connector should be white and not a brown, oily color and there shouldn't be oil on the spades. /QUOTE]

    If you've got oil on/in the white connector it is most likely a result of spilling it when adding oil. The oil that travels under the insulation of the wires comes from the stator & would be seen on the brown connector. Soldering the crimps will pretty much stop the oil from flowing into the brown connector connections.
    John B.
    02 Ash Black w/Staintunes, PC3 w/custom map, Evo Filter, Mille Air Boot, derestricted air box, Heli-Bars, Wilbers shock, new rectifier, Scottoiler, heated grips, T'meister, c/f frt. fender & hugger.

  4. #754
    apriliaforum Member Cipher's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=bikpaintr;2579079]
    Quote Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
    Could anyone explain the oil leaking down the wires a little better other than describing it as positive pressure from the stator or something or other? That's kind of confusing to me. All I know is that my white connector should be white and not a brown, oily color and there shouldn't be oil on the spades. /QUOTE]

    If you've got oil on/in the white connector it is most likely a result of spilling it when adding oil. The oil that travels under the insulation of the wires comes from the stator & would be seen on the brown connector. Soldering the crimps will pretty much stop the oil from flowing into the brown connector connections.

    Thanks John! Looking at what I wrote I should've mentioned that the dealer installed the honda wiring kit so what used to be the brown connector has been replaced with a white connector. It was pretty dirty and oily and I could see that one of the wires was starting to turn black near the crimp. I tried to remove the spades with a small screwdriver but it was impossible so I just had to cut off the connector. I decided to finally install the regulator I bought from you. I soldered and heat shrinked the 3 yellow wires but left the other white connector in place. I checked the spades and they seem to be in good shape. I loaded it up with di-electric grease just to be safe though. I haven't checked the rate at 4000 rpm but idling voltage was 13.5 which was higher than the 12.5 or so with the old regulator. The yellow wires were a little hot but not so hot I couldn't hold them.

    Why would oil be working its way down the wires from the stator though? I'm sure that's not what's supposed to happen...

  5. #755
    apriliaforum expert bikpaintr's Avatar
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    It may not be what is supposed to happen but its not uncommon when you have insulated wires running out of an oil bath. Your 13.5V reading @ idle is too low for that rectifier so something isn't right. You should see 14v minimum at all times. I also would not seal up that connector with Di-electric grease as the last thing you want to do is hold heat inside the connector. If you haven't soldered the crimps in that white connector do it now or you will see a future mild down. Check/clean all your connections between the rectifier & battery as well as the grounds that attach to each side of the rear cylinder base.
    John B.
    02 Ash Black w/Staintunes, PC3 w/custom map, Evo Filter, Mille Air Boot, derestricted air box, Heli-Bars, Wilbers shock, new rectifier, Scottoiler, heated grips, T'meister, c/f frt. fender & hugger.

  6. #756
    apriliaforum Member Flynlo's Avatar
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    Just a curious question, but I feel it's important.

    The bike was running great since I did the 20k service (I'm at 25k now) and a few days ago it struggled to start in the garage, cranked it over again and it stared. Started w/o hesitation after I got fuel. Then would not start after sitting for 20min while on a 60 mile ride (I had to get a jump as the battery was dead).
    Got home and charged the battery. I went through my wiring mod. replaced the 16g wire that I had used originally with a 14g and went overkill by braiding the wires together with a touch of solder then shrink wrap'd it closed. I also removed the extra ground wire from the blue wire at the white connector (I felt that it was unnecessary and I'm also trying to eliminate possible electrical draws when the bike it shut off).


    I can't get a perfect reading b/c I have an analog multimeter, but it looks as though I'm at 14v at idle and around 13 at 4000rpm. Same as it was before I re-did the mod.

    I went on a ride yesterday and at one time it hesitated to start. push the start button and it turns once or twice then stops turning. Push the start and all the lights turn off and it does nothing, let go of the start button let it sit for 5-6s. push the button and it fires but struggles to keep an idle unless I add throttle. then it runs fine (any one else have this issue?)

    I added a 14g wire from the black & red wire at the white connector to the black & red wire at the 30a fuse under the seat. There are two black and red wires leaving the white connector. So my questions is: does it matter which black and red wire I connect the extra wire to? or should I connect the extra wire to both the black and red wires?
    Last edited by Flynlo; 08-03-2010 at 04:39 PM.
    '02 Futura Apline White
    - 05 Map - Throttlemeisters
    - Millie Mirrors - Heated Grips
    - 12v socket - A Go Fast Rider

  7. #757
    apriliaforum expert deefred's Avatar
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    In a perfect world it does not matter to which Red/black wire you connect to.

    I connected the two red/black wires to the same pin at the white connector and then connected the extra thicker wire to the now empty pin. (not shown in this diagram)

    It could be that your regulator is dying.
    Measure at the output of regulator.

    I had 14 V at idle with light OFF but only 12.8 V with light ON.
    After replacement of regulator it was O.K again.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    2001 RST Futura in stream Silver.
    Mods: Modified Öhlins fork from mille R, EBC brake discs, HEL front brakelines, Carbon RS 250 front fender, Wiring mod for charging. Engine related:05 map, Iridium plugs, tuneboy, derestriced intake, old mille airboot, staintunes exhaust. Lambda bung hardbrazed in the "breadbox". Öhlins mille R rear shock with 110N/mm spring and the integrated hydraulic preload adjuster. LED Voltmeter installed inside the dash for monitoring charging. Duc 999 radial m/c for brake and clutch. EBC 320mm brake discs
    NWS hugger. Equipment: Famsa tankbag,
    CBR 600 -07 MOSFET R&R FH008EE providing stable 14.4 - 14.5 V (with my wiring mod). Daytona heated grips with mccoi pwm controller and automatic chain oiler

  8. #758
    apriliaforum expert kzmille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flynlo View Post
    ...I went on a ride yesterday and at one time it hesitated to start. push the start button and it turns once or twice then stops turning. Push the start and all the lights turn off and it does nothing, let go of the start button let it sit for 5-6s. push the button and it fires but struggles to keep an idle unless I add throttle. then it runs fine (any one else have this issue?)...
    I don't know the full story of your troubles but it is likely that your battery is bad and your starter relay weakened and on the way to failure as well. Get yourself a good battery and keep it on a maintainer.

  9. #759
    apriliaforum Member Flynlo's Avatar
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    Battery is new as is the starter solenoid. Since the post I "fixed the problem" I was still getting a poor charge because I did not have a properly good connection at my added wires. So I solidified the connections and replaced them with a thicker gauge. The result is approx. 14.5v at idle and around 13v at 4krpm.
    '02 Futura Apline White
    - 05 Map - Throttlemeisters
    - Millie Mirrors - Heated Grips
    - 12v socket - A Go Fast Rider

  10. #760
    apriliaforum expert bikpaintr's Avatar
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    If you are getting 14.5v@idle & 13v@4k you haven't fixed anything unless you spend all your time parked & idling. You want to see 13.9v or better @4k to keep the battery & your operating systems happy.
    John B.
    02 Ash Black w/Staintunes, PC3 w/custom map, Evo Filter, Mille Air Boot, derestricted air box, Heli-Bars, Wilbers shock, new rectifier, Scottoiler, heated grips, T'meister, c/f frt. fender & hugger.

  11. #761
    apriliaforum Member Flynlo's Avatar
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    That's what I figured. I only fixed half the problem. Before I wasn't even getting 14.5 at idle. The bike is starting and running normally (knock on wood) and it will only take time to realize if I need to monkey with the wiring again. If it begins to act up again I'll be sending you a message about a new rectifier as I'm sure that will be the next solution.
    '02 Futura Apline White
    - 05 Map - Throttlemeisters
    - Millie Mirrors - Heated Grips
    - 12v socket - A Go Fast Rider

  12. #762
    apriliaforum prov-nov Kilroy's Avatar
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    I've been hanging around checking things out for the past few months after purchasing a 2004 Futura. After a 'end of season' oil change I had the infamous brown connector meltdown at only 2800 miles. I purchased this bike in June with only 2200 miles on her, and this was my first issue.

    Thanks to you all, I got this baby fixed tonight! I knew there was some charging issues because my turn signals wouldn't work at a stoplight and I had slow cranking and weak battery. I may be ordering a new Rec from JohnB soon and installing it, but so far I'm getting 13.89v at 4k RPM's and 14.2 at idle.

    Here are the pictures of the plug, the 2 jump wires (neg to battery and hot to black/red on small fuseblock). I pulled each wire from the white plug block and opened up the rear crimp (the one that goes over the rear portion of the wire insulator) to expose the wire, and I soldered it. After soldering each wire I re-crimped and soldered it up a bit more. After this, I installed a new Ford starter solonoid and this sucker rips to life and there is no indication of low voltage.

    Awesome stuff for a new Fut owner. After sorting through all of the posts, I'm feeling better about the bike. Heated grips next, it's 'effen cold here this time of year!

    Credits for my repair go to bossbob because he gave me the most confidence to just tear into it and that it wasn't as hard as I was telling myself it was... thanks bossbob!

    Kilroy




    Last edited by Kilroy; 10-31-2010 at 11:32 AM. Reason: Fixed the pictures so they would show up!
    2004 Futura

    "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."~ George S. Patton

  13. #763
    apriliaforum expert SuperhawkLGT's Avatar
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    Don't see any pics.

  14. #764
    apriliaforum expert OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    Kilroy, glad to hear you got the bike sorted.
    FYI, the place where you've got the pics hosted requires a user log-in

  15. #765
    apriliaforum prov-nov Kilroy's Avatar
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    great info, thanks!

    Should be fixed now
    Last edited by Kilroy; 10-31-2010 at 11:33 AM.
    2004 Futura

    "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."~ George S. Patton

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