Bike runs better on 3 coils - go figure!

[DanRomani]

I got the dreaded EFI error code (36, I think) after a particularly cold morning caused the bike to throw a fit while starting.

I already have the coils earmarked on ebay, so I ordered them right away but had to wait for them to arrive.

Riding it for four days on only three coils it felt... younger, less tired, less boring, less hesitant than usual.

I thought maybe I'm just imagining it but, after getting the coil replaced, it went back to being tired, slow to pick up and boring to ride again!

I put her into the auto-electrician and he confirms that the bike "isn't getting the full Kv's to all cylindars with four coils but works just fine if we remove the offending coil".

He suspects the ECU is trying to compensate for some other problem in the loom but, so far, he can't figure out what that problem is. Any ideas?

Dan

[deefred]

What is your charging rate at the battery?

Do you get the same effect if another coil is removed instead?
You could try to measure the resístance in the wiring for the ECU leading to ground and battery positive

[Micah / AF1 Racing]

If you have over-advanced your ignition timing with Tune ECU then this is surely possible...I have yet to see one that runs better on the dyno with a dead spark coil/plug however. Sometimes it will create a dip/spike scenario where it does indeed "feel" faster...

[DanRomani]

-Micah: I've never used TuneECU on it but that's not to say a previous owner didn't mess with it.

-deefred: The dash readout is usually 12.6, so I imagine it's closer to 14 at the battery. The auto electrician I use says it is charging fine. they said it was actually a resistance issue that caused the coil to fail in the first place (they had to sort that before fitting the new coil) but they can't find any other problems with the loom. As far as i know, the weird behaviour only occurs with that one coil but I may be mistaken about that.

In any case, they're replacing the ECU boards tomorrow, so I'll see what happens there.

[deefred]

"Dash readout is usually 12.6" ??

What kind of bike do you have as the Futura does not have that feature.
I also don´t believe your electrician that a resistance issue killed the coil.

Do you mean the whole ECU when you say ECU boards?

If the ECU is replaced they would have to reset the TPS and adjust the Idle Fuel Trim to make it run well.
Sounds like they don´t have equipment for that.

P.S. I understand now that you have an permanent external voltmeter.
If it is connected directly to the battery then there is no reason for it to show lower voltage.
Measure directly on the battery @ 4000rpm and lights ON.

[SouthernChris]

Dont forget that power to the coils is fed from the injection relay which is fed from the notorious red/white wire that can corrode at the crimp connection, maybe get them to check that if there are still problems.

[RAS]

Think I would want to know if disconnecting one coil on the other cylinder has the same effect. If yes, then I'd be tearing open that harness behind the radiator as well.

When my voltmeter read across the parking light in the headlight, I saw a 1V drop from voltage read directly at the battery. So, at 4k, it would read 13-13.2V. Even if charge rate is OK at the battery, getting 12.6V up forward is probably too low. They need to check inside the loom jackets.

[DanRomani]

Yes, I have an external voltmeter =D) Probably should have made that clear.

I consistently get around 12-12.6 v on the meter. This bike has spent more time in various workshops since I got it than it has on the road. Needless to say I'm sick of it.

I know little about bike mechanics (I've worked on my own bikes when I used to have Kawasaki's but this bike looks like an Escher drawing to me) or electrics but I asked the auto electrician to check the charging the first time I put her in (based on recommendations on this forum) and he still maintains that the charging/battery is fine. Mine is not the only Futura he works on, so I guess he would be able to spot the difference?

I'm not sure if he's tried it with other coils missing - it seems like a really basic move, something I would have done and I don't know this stuff, so I assume he has done that. He sent the bike over to Ducati specialists when he couldn't track the problem down and they're the ones who insisted on 'replacing the ECU boards'. I have no idea what that means, all I know is that it cost me £90 and another 4 days without the bike.

Apparently, they've now fitted the boards and unearthed a whole host of problems for my auto-electrician to fettle, so he still has the bike. God knows when I'll get it back but he's promised me it will feel like a totally different bike when I get it back, which i hope is true, because that's all I've wanted since the first week of owning this bike. I'm tired of throwing money at it in the hopes that it'll someday turn out to be enjoyable.

[DanRomani]

-Chris Thanks, I'll mention the crimp at the Red/White wire and see if he knows where to look.

-Ras, he said he checked the whole loom but I only have his word for that!

[Argh Oh]

The red/white wire is in a very large loom cover tucked up (on mine at least) close to motor, you'll have to cut it open to see the wires. Unfortunately I can't point you at specific thread but there are examples of the problem, a couple pics are genuinely ugly. Happily mine was fine when I checked it. Good luck, I hope you get your Fut back soon and healthy because then you will forgive it.

[deefred]

Sorry to say but it sounds like they are bullshitting you.
These "ECU boards" would be control boards within the ECU but I have never heard about a repair like that for this ECU.
If they replaced something then tell them you want the old parts back.
Then you can put the pictures of them here and we can perhaps say what it was they replaced.

[RAS]

You should invest in a basic volt ohm meter. Can buy cheap ones here for under $10. Then check the voltage at the battery at 4K RPM. If all you are seeing is 12.6 from some voltmeter up front, your charge system is either not working properly, you have a big voltage drop to the forward electrics or your meter is duff ( to quote a phrase). At this point, I wouldn't make assumptions.

And none us in this conversation know what the Ducati shop is telling you about replacing boards in the ECU. If they were to replace the unit, it would cost far more than 90 pounds. And, it's likely not even possible to open the thing to just replace circuitry. To say nothing of where they're gonna get those boards from. Besides, the ECUs have been very, very reliable.

I agree - definitely ask for all old parts back.