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Thread: TelemarkSean's Futura tune-up

  1. #1
    apriliaforum Member TelemarkSean's Avatar
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    TelemarkSean's Futura tune-up

    Hello. (...AFO?)

    I thought I might start a new thread since my "fair price for rebuilt futura" doesn't quite apply anymore... I purchased the red bike. For those interested, I'm documenting all of my work on the Futura a local rider forum here. I won't repost everything here on apriliaforums.com. Just want to use this thread for questions and aprilia-community things.

    First things first. I'm modded the harness so that I can use Japanese coils. As a way of giving back to Apriliaforums.com, I've got some brass rod left over than I can cut down to whatever length required (it was 23mm for me) and send out to any forum member who wants it. I've got enough for 8 coils as long as lengths are close to 23mm.

    I also have one probably-good OEM style coil to give out. [GONE - gave to a forum member] It doesn't seem to be a Sagem coil - says "JCI" on the cap and seems much newer than the other three coils which were Sagem coils that had 40k miles on them. The JCI tested 0.5 ohms primary and 6.5 megaohms secondary. This is close to the other two working Sagem coils that I pulled from the bike. I'll let the JCI coil go for the cost of shipping. Pics below.



    I've also got the 4 OEM-style coil connectors - free to forum members.

    Question: I want to do the wiring mod described here. There's a pic of the current wiring to my rectifier below. The connectors have been removed and wires have been soldered to the hopefully-appropriate mates. However, I'm getting 13.45 V @ 4000 RPM which is poor. You can see in the image that the red/black are not connected to anything. To do the mod, do I simply connect one of the Red/whites up to the red/black wires near the fuse box under the seat?



    Thanks.
    Last edited by TelemarkSean; 09-06-2015 at 02:23 PM.
    Bikes: 2001 Aprilia Futura, 2001 Ducati M900sie, 1985 BMW R80, 2005 zx6r (sold)

  2. #2
    apriliaforum expert RAS's Avatar
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    It's hard to know what's been done, but originally, those red/black wires went too one of the main 30A fuses and then to the battery. Check and see if there's 12V to ground on each of them to see if they are still connected.

    Can only guess the heavier red wire goes straight to the battery - hopefully with an inline fuse.

    The original wire mod ran 2 pairs of extra wires in parallel to the existing pairs of + and -. At its best, charge voltage from that set-up was 14.1 at idle and 13.9 at 4k. Better than OE, but still not optimal.

    A better choice at this point is to ditch (well save it as a spare) that OE regulator (which, btw is upside down from its OE position) and go MOSFET (used or new) or a std. one from Rick's. That way, you shouldn't need the extra wires and your charge voltage will be up into the low 14s consistently. I think i'd also put the plugs back on one way or another. Had the lugs inside those original plugs been soldered early on, they'd still be intact today, making swaps an easy thing.

  3. #3
    apriliaforum Member trumpet's Avatar
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    Excellent post on the other forum. Thanks for posting the link here. The coil mod with the Magnacore wires is next on the list. I have already ordered and received new plugs and coil wires. CBR600 coils are next.

    Kudos to you for the offer to share the brass rods. I will take you up on it. Assuming that you used the CBR coils, I would think I would need the same length rods. Let me know if you still have them and I can send you my address. Where did you get the harness for the CBR connectors? Where did you get the coils? Are the CBR600 coils?
    03 Ash Black, 05 Map (still fiddling), FPR Mod, Mille air box (derestricted boot), K&N style filter, Staintune with no baffles and H Pipe, Falco front forks, Braking 310mm WaveRotors and Ferado pads, Wilbers Triple Adjustable rear shock with hydraulic preload adjuster, Hi beam mod, R/R Mod, Metal QD

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    apriliaforum Member TelemarkSean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAS View Post
    It's hard to know what's been done, but originally, those red/black wires went too one of the main 30A fuses and then to the battery. Check and see if there's 12V to ground on each of them to see if they are still connected.

    Can only guess the heavier red wire goes straight to the battery - hopefully with an inline fuse.

    The original wire mod ran 2 pairs of extra wires in parallel to the existing pairs of + and -. At its best, charge voltage from that set-up was 14.1 at idle and 13.9 at 4k. Better than OE, but still not optimal.

    A better choice at this point is to ditch (well save it as a spare) that OE regulator (which, btw is upside down from its OE position) and go MOSFET (used or new) or a std. one from Rick's. That way, you shouldn't need the extra wires and your charge voltage will be up into the low 14s consistently. I think i'd also put the plugs back on one way or another. Had the lugs inside those original plugs been soldered early on, they'd still be intact today, making swaps an easy thing.
    Thanks.

    The red/blacks still go to the fuse box and then to the battery +. They just aren't connected to anything else and the bike ran fine (mediocre charging, though).

    The solid red wire runs straight to battery. No fuse. :/ The bike is sitting with battery disconnected now.

    I'm a bit confused about how this bike is running without these connections made. Are Red/White positive from the stock regulator? And green is ground? I guess the stock connector Joined Red/White to Red/Black?

    I think the regulator is upside down to bring the connections closer... too much of the original harness was removed with the connectors.



    Quote Originally Posted by trumpet View Post
    Excellent post on the other forum. Thanks for posting the link here. The coil mod with the Magnacore wires is next on the list. I have already ordered and received new plugs and coil wires. CBR600 coils are next.

    Kudos to you for the offer to share the brass rods. I will take you up on it. Assuming that you used the CBR coils, I would think I would need the same length rods. Let me know if you still have them and I can send you my address. Where did you get the harness for the CBR connectors? Where did you get the coils? Are the CBR600 coils?
    The coils and donor harness I'm using are from a GSXR1000 but I think the dimensions are very close to the CBR600 ones and the harness connections are the same. I got my coils and donor harness from a semi-local guy who builds race bikes. Ebay is also a good source and I would have done that if I didn't have a contact who I knew had a set of 4 good coils. Brand new coils for japanese inline-4's (CBR600, etc) are about $40 per coil which is still a better deal than OEM-style.

    Send me a PM with your mailing address info and I'll get the rods in the mail. TheSprocket used 30mm rods in his original post. Maybe the CBR coils are slightly different but there's a lot of overlap between the boot on the coil and the wire. I was just trying maximize this. 20mm would have worked but I wanted to make sure the rod was bottomed out on both connections. 30mm would have also worked. Anyway, let me know how long you want the rods. It's not crucial. Anywhere between 23 and 30mm will probably get it done for most japanese stick coils. The fit between the rod and socket is really tight but the sockets are harder than the rod so the brass will wear instead of the expensive bits. And you shouldn't have to unplug more than a few times.
    Last edited by TelemarkSean; 08-30-2015 at 03:46 AM.
    Bikes: 2001 Aprilia Futura, 2001 Ducati M900sie, 1985 BMW R80, 2005 zx6r (sold)

  5. #5
    apriliaforum expert Argh Oh's Avatar
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    On mine, the original red charging wires are used but there is also an extra red wire to fuses. The original wires not being connected may be part of your charging prob and there should be a fuse in the existing wire. That said, the original regulators are a known failure point. Soldering the wires is fine in my humble opinion but changing parts then does become more involved. The original white connector survived on mine so it's intact. Running an extra ground wire from plug to batt isn't a bad idea either.
    01 Blue #84, 11/12 with: HeliBars, foam grips, 05 map, Borla cans (Replaced by 2" pipe)/stock silencer, derestricted, metal QD, dash socket, wiring mod. Me: Ford relay +10awg & grd, fuel pump rewire, FPR, vac hoses. Evap gone, CBR coils/harness+ Magnecor, clutch switch bypass. S.S. clutch & front line, RaceTech Gold fork, Cogent rebuilt Sachs, tapered head bearings. Added LED run lights/indicators/brake. All signals also run lights. All lights but Hi/park/brake on dash switch. Hi beam mod, vest plug, wiring block, blue dash SMD's/Red V meter, Tune IFT, PCIII gone. Stripped/polished rims, vented screen, rear petal disc. FH008 soldered DC plug/added grd/hard soldered AC. L/R dash indicator lights, RG frame/fork sliders, vented screen.

  6. #6
    apriliaforum Member TelemarkSean's Avatar
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    Thanks. I don't know what happened with this wiring harness. The fuse box isn't bypassed but the regulator isn't in a fused circuit. I mean, I see how they did it. Just don't know why.

    Looks like Rick's regulator is MOSFET? I suppose that if I get this and used appropriate gauge wire, I can avoid extra wiring.
    Bikes: 2001 Aprilia Futura, 2001 Ducati M900sie, 1985 BMW R80, 2005 zx6r (sold)

  7. #7
    apriliaforum Member
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    I direct wired the regulator to the battery with 10 ga wire (12ga more than adequate ) and 30 amp fuse. Terminated the original + and grounded the negative to the frame. Replace RR with a SH847AA series regulator.

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    Cheers

    Philip

  8. #8
    apriliaforum expert RAS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TelemarkSean View Post
    Thanks. I don't know what happened with this wiring harness. The fuse box isn't bypassed but the regulator isn't in a fused circuit. I mean, I see how they did it. Just don't know why.

    Looks like Rick's regulator is MOSFET? I suppose that if I get this and used appropriate gauge wire, I can avoid extra wiring.
    Haven't looked lately , but Rick's (no relation) used to sell both types. I have their std regulator from 6 years ago now. I actually had to remove my extra 2 positive wires from my 4 wire mod as the charge voltage was too high.

    The plugs will be a direct match and with lugs inside will have been nicely soldered from Rick's

    Not like it's absolutely gonna happen, but having an unfused wire running over the motor, near the exhaust and under the gas tank is a bit of a fire hazard. Everything needs to be fused. Someone got lazy.

    You can connect all 3 of those wires (the 2 OE red/blacks and that heavier gauge red one) together, but you really need to put an automotive style fuse in that new red line up near the battery.

    It would actually be better to solder that newer red to the same 30A fuse the other 2 wires are connected to. That's what i did over a decade ago. If you do connect all 3 and put an inline fuse in for that added red wire, I'd consider using 2, 15A fuses instead of 30s. this will bring you back to 30A of protection for that circuit (2, 15A fuses in parallel = 30A)

  9. #9
    apriliaforum Member TelemarkSean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAS View Post
    I actually had to remove my extra 2 positive wires from my 4 wire mod as the charge voltage was too high.
    1st world problems.

    Man, I thought this bike was almost ready to button up and go. Even with the mediocre charging, I figured I could put it back together and see how well my ignition harness mod worked.

    But I'm a bit of a paranoid person so I'm not going anywhere until the regulator is fused. I was going to just splice in a single automotive fuse holder. But I have to make an order to AF1 anyway for a fuel pump plate o-ring so I'll snag a Rick's MOSFET as well and I'll spend a little more quality time with the wiring harness.

    I was really worried that the shoddy repairs might have included the motor but it seems the PO's were too timid to mess with the heart of the bike. I checked the rear cylinder valves and balance shaft and it's all beautiful. Clearances were toward the low end of "ok" but they were definitely ok. Relief.

    On my way to the front cylinder valves (I hear there's a way to rock pivot the radiator out of the way without removing it?), I got distracted checking the front part of the harness and removing the Ohlins steering damper. The steering/headset bearings feel great and there's no play as far as I can tell. I might rebuild the dampener and sell it to offset the cost of the new reg/rec.
    Last edited by TelemarkSean; 08-30-2015 at 08:54 PM.
    Bikes: 2001 Aprilia Futura, 2001 Ducati M900sie, 1985 BMW R80, 2005 zx6r (sold)

  10. #10
    apriliaforum expert RAS's Avatar
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    I've checked valves twice and never touched the radiator mounts. There's one cover bolt that's a pita to get at - don't think I've ever been able to put a torque wrench on it - but still, you should be able to access w/o unbolting the radiators - some plastic, yes.

    You will have to lift the TBs up out of the way to get that front valve cover off however. You'll likely find those valves OK as well. Not too many bikes out there with a rock solid vale set-up like the Rotax.

  11. #11
    apriliaforum expert meanstrk's Avatar
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    Handling is a little weird The bike doesn't like to settle in to corners. The engine missing certainly contributes to this. Compression braking is strong and braking on the rear wheel would cause the bike to stand up. The front tire is old (but not worn) and is also mismatched to the rear - Pirelli in front and Bridgestone in back. The front tire is too old to keep anyway so I'll replace. There's also a steering dampener which I haven't checked out. I might just remove it... I dunno, do dampeners affect handling?
    Engine braking will not affect turn in. This is more than likely caused by the crap from tire or the geometry is set up wrong. Does it still have a stock shock?

    These bikes are the most sensitive to front tire profile than anything else I have ever ridden, and a worn from REALLY makes them feel like shite.
    Last edited by meanstrk; 08-31-2015 at 09:59 AM.
    Ron
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    apriliaforum Member TelemarkSean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanstrk View Post
    Engine braking will not affect turn in. This is more than likely caused by the crap from tire or the geometry is set up wrong. Does it still have a stock shock?

    These bikes are the most sensitive to front tire profile than anything else I have ever ridden, and a worn from REALLY makes them feel like shite.
    It's not so much turn in. It just doesn't settle once I'm in the turn. I'm not a hotshot rider but I can get my old BMW to plant in a turn. Something isn't right. If the motor is missing, the motor isn't pulling consistently through the corner which feels bad, if nothing else. I'm sure the front tire is a factor. It's from 2008 so it will be replaced regardless.

    The bike still has the stock suspension but that seems to be in good shape so perhaps the front forks are newer or were serviced properly. One of the first things I did when I got the bike home was to set the suspension to the "Medium" settings listed in the owners manual. This seems pretty appropriate. There's decent damping in forks/shock and everything feels smooth. It's actually really nice on less-than-perfect roads. Plush but doesn't get overwhelmed by big bumps or hard turns.
    Last edited by TelemarkSean; 08-31-2015 at 12:19 PM.
    Bikes: 2001 Aprilia Futura, 2001 Ducati M900sie, 1985 BMW R80, 2005 zx6r (sold)

  13. #13
    apriliaforum expert meanstrk's Avatar
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    The only problem setting the suspension to the manual settings is that it's now worn a good bit with the miles it has on it and that rear shock is more than likely toast. Those settings are based on "as new" rather than high mileage and who knows what fork oil in there.
    Ron
    MSgt USMC (Retired!)
    N2 CR
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    IBA #38812

    RST Futura
    Colin Edwards RSV R Mille #066 (Sold now. Sigh...)
    2007.5 Tuono

    For custom paint work, check out https://www.facebook.com/Trading-Paint-162751633826626/

  14. #14
    apriliaforum Member TelemarkSean's Avatar
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    I agree. I just wanted to reset the suspension to a reasonable starting point. It wasn't set up wrong - the PO had it set on the soft side. I'm not trying to drag knees here. Just want it to settle in the corners.
    Bikes: 2001 Aprilia Futura, 2001 Ducati M900sie, 1985 BMW R80, 2005 zx6r (sold)

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    apriliaforum expert RAS's Avatar
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    have you checked the cush hub nut for proper torque? If that's loose, the back wheel will move all over the place and the handling will feel terrible.

    Regardless, you should do this anyway. Remove the 3 little screws in that left side nut - one will (well, should be) be longer than the other 2. Torque should be 110 ft-lbs. find which of those 3 holes is lined up with a slot in the splined axle (a small hex key works for this) and put the long screw in that hole. Don't force and don't over-tighten, they are small.

    How do the stem bearings feel - is there a notch dead center or is it smooth from side to side w/o play if you lift the front wheel off the ground.

    With that wheel up, how do the front wheel bearings feel? Any noise or play?

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