Bike stood for 6 months - new stator/rectifier - jammed starter?

[putty_thing]

Hi chaps,

Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction here - just put all the major parts back on to the RSV after picking up an R1 regulator and Rick's Motorsport stator after the the charging system seemed to fail around last October.

Last night after filling the oil tank I wanted to turn the bike over a couple of times to pull some oil through it so I could get the level right but upon pressing the starter I get a click from the starter solenoid, all the lights go out but the motor doesn't turn over. It's worth noting here that a hand on the starter can feel a little kick from it when I press the starter button, the solenoid was also getting warm.

The battery has been on an Optimate (battery tender) permanently, and I've tried it with a car jump start kit connected, as well as bypassing the solenoid putting a battery straight onto the leads it connects to.

I've bumped the bike back and forth a bit to try to see if the starter was jammed but I can turn the motor over by pushing it in 6th so don't think that's the case.

From what I've seen it looks like the problem is starter related, it's seized or something (tried hitting it with a hammer too) - I've been plenty of reference on the forum to the solenoid going bad but having bypassed it that doesn't seem to be the issue.

Any suggestions on what to try next would be greatly appreciated, I'm off on a pan European road trip in just under 4 weeks and thought I'd left my self enough time to change the charging system - didn't expect something else to die though!

Thanks!

[deefred]

Remove the starter (very easy) and put 12V to it to check that it spins.
Reinstall and see if it helped just spinning the starter.

I had something similar with a bike that had stood for several years.
Might be oxides on the commutator.

[mini_me]

My guess it either:

- Jammed starter (you cannot test this by pushing the bike in gear as the sprag clutch only engages if the starter spins fast enough)
- Bad battery (test the voltage with a proper meter)
- Bad relay

How did you jumpstart the bike? Where did you connect the leads and did you bypass the relay with the jumper cables connected?

[putty_thing]

Thanks for the replies chaps, just found the procedure for removing the starter which does indeed look simple (two bolts?!) so will try that this evening.

To answer the other points:

- Suspect it might well be a jammed starter (does the motor usually bind up or is it something with the gearing and sprag clutch assembly that gets stuck)?
- Battery gives a solid 12.6v at the terminals with the bike off, suspect it isn't the battery as when I put jump leads on from a car battery I got the exact same symptoms when trying to start the bike.

I didn't manage to actually jumpstart the bike - it doesn't have any fairings on yet and it was pretty late when I got to that stage. I connected the jump leads onto the back of the bike's battery, didn't actually try bypassing the solenoid with the jump leads on (only with just the bike battery), will try that after I test the motor on the bench.

[jfryjfry]

sounds like bad battery or bad connections on battery or starter

[putty_thing]

Just took the starter out, not quite sure how to test it - I can see there +12v connects but not where it grounds - tested it with a multimeter and there seems to be +tve continuity across the whole casing - it doesn't earth through the starter gears or something does it?

Also had a look inside the gearbox through the hole where the starter motor drive is - anyone know if those gears should move by hand (they don't for me)?

[putty_thing]

...of course the motor will appear to be shorted when it's stopped so it will all buzz out. My jump pack isn't firing up because of the short though so I'm going to have to find some proper jump leads and test it with a real battery.

Still be interested if the starter gears are meant to move by hand - would assume they should if they're connected to a clutch. Obviously I was working on the other side of this when I had the stator cover off, don't really see how I could have jammed it though (no bolts left over anyway :P)

[amauri]

When you replaced the stator, did you install a new gasket or re-assemble it without gasket and just used a Silicone RTV or FIPG sealer with no gasket?

[putty_thing]

Quite right amauri, I ripped the original gasket so tried it with a silicone gasket - it seems the paper gasket provides a tiny amount of clearance to allow the starter to spin. Just test fitted with the old gasket and the starter gears spun freely.

Thanks for all the help chaps, should have used the right parts!

[amauri]

Glad you found it.
Yours is not the first and we've discussed this here before.
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...-Stator-Gasket
Always use a gasket.

[mini_me]

When you replaced the stator, did you install a new gasket or re-assemble it without gasket and just used a Silicone RTV or FIPG sealer with no gasket?

Good call amauri! I remember this happening to another member some time ago but it rang no bell.