Hand Cramping under braking

[wrx_02]

Ok I can get a good 5 to 6 laps (20mins) at the most before my hands cramp to the point where I can not hold on.

Running Woodcraft clip ons, suspension feels like it is pretty much dialed in handling wise, unless I can do something to help this issue.

So I do use my legs to hold myself up under braking but as I get closer to dipping into the turn I kick my knee out and this puts pressure on the palms of my hands.

I guess I need to know should I be off the brakes before leaning at all?
Is there an adjustments I can do to my brakes or suspension to help with this issue?
Or I am thinking my riding style is incorrect.

I think I am braking at the correct time, keeping the front end squatted and not letting off the brakes until I am leaning.

I also have a ton of brake dust all over my front wheel. So much so the black front wheel looks red.
I was told 2006 GSXR's have bad MC but I am thinking maybe it is my brakes? I get a ton of fade after getting them hot and if I ride them too hard they seem to want to glazed over.

[Muz720]

At the rick of being flamed for my views on racing.
Are you griping the bars too tightly during the rest of your lap? That will lead to hand fatigue very quickly, also try adjusting your levers so your wrist is not bent when grabbing a handful. And are you using two fingers to brake or your whole hand??

[wrx_02]

I am light on the bars on the straights and while turning. Just holding myself up when braking.

When you say adjust the bars do you mean move them forward rather than in close to the tank? When I picked up the bike they were very close to the tank and I moved them out some. I could give that a shot if you think it would help.

I usually do 2 fingers in the brakes, sometimes the whole hand. Strange I know but it goes back to my dirt bike days.
I clutch with my whole hand but both hands hurt the same. I think it would throw out that as being an issue.

[potere]

At the rick of being flamed for my views on racing.
Are you griping the bars too tightly during the rest of your lap? That will lead to hand fatigue very quickly, also try adjusting your levers so your wrist is not bent when grabbing a handful. And are you using two fingers to brake or your whole hand??

Adjust the LEVERS not the bars, so your wrists are in line and straight with the forearm. Move the levers up or down to allow that. Check the angle of your wrist left and right, too. Should be straight ahead, not cocked left or right. You may be getting arm pump like Casey, too. Arm pump is caused by return blood flow not getting out of the arm due to physical stress.

What about your shoulders and neck? If the shoulders are up and your neck is down, it might indicate your overall posture is poor on the bike. This would imply the strength of your hand grip may be too high also. Ask an instructor to check you on a lap or if you have pics, post them here.

I guess I need to know should I be off the brakes before leaning at all?

Not if you want faster lap times, you can only do that with trail braking. On the other hand, my trailbraking is pretty light stuff to keep from losing the front.

My track day buddy had this issue too. His problem was too much squeezing of the grips out of nervousness, trying to force the bike around the track. Another street rider friend had the same thing. There is a nerve under the meat of your outside palm, you could be pressing it too much.

Hope you solve it, that's worse than fixing brakes. If you're brakes are heating up too much, maybe you better go to track day only pads like XRAC or ZRAC from Ferodo, Versah's or Brembo Z04's. Are the rotors getting blue? Another option is the DI rotors from Braketech. Way way better for heat dissipation.

[vecio]

I had a pair of gloves that caused a similar issue for me. they were great gloves and I gave them plenty of time to break in, we just didn't work together. I tried all kinds of stuff to fix that, but in the end, going back to my old gloves is what worked. Just a thought.

[wrx_02]

Here are pictures. As for the gloves I thought about that. I had these gloves with my RSV and never got fore arm pump or cramping hands.
I did not have to hit the brakes as hard on the lever on the RSV either. Seemed like a little pull of the lever and it would bite WAY harder.

I was thinking I just keep getting faster and faster but noticed my hands hurting the first time I rode the GSXR.

potere, do you have some visual aids for the wrist positioning? I will ask about my riding position at the next event, suppose to have a 1 on 1 instructor.

[potere]

Nice job leaning the beast over. Saving the knee pucks for later in the season??

Hard to tell for sure with these pics. Your pro will help best.

Wrist pics:

http://practisingthepiano.com/wp-con...xl-300x198.jpg

I know your RSV4 has more horse than this machine, but the wrist position is spot on:

http://0.tqn.com/d/backandneck/1/5/f...nwristline.jpg

[wrx_02]

Nice job leaning the beast over. Saving the knee pucks for later in the season??

Hard to tell for sure with these pics. Your pro will help best.

Wrist pics:

http://practisingthepiano.com/wp-con...xl-300x198.jpg

I know your RSV4 has more horse than this machine, but the wrist position is spot on:

http://0.tqn.com/d/backandneck/1/5/f...nwristline.jpg

It's actually a GSXR but on the old RSV I would drag the pegs but it didn't mean I was moving any faster. :wink:


I have actually tried to not hang so far off and work on getting my upper body down. Feels more natural now besides my hands cramping.

[hank]

I (THINK I) am light on the bars on the straights and while turning. Just holding myself up when braking.

Seriously though, any calluses or blisters on your hands from riding? Many times people believe they are light on the bars, but really are in 'death grip' mode without realizing it...

I guess I need to know should I be off the brakes before leaning at all?

Search on the term 'trail braking' - you need to embrace its beauty and use it EVERY corner...

[The Commissar]

I'm not as experienced as most of the folks in this thread by a long shot, but...

When I'm braking pretty hard I'm keeping myself where I am on the bike I use my inner thighs, loading the front as you mentioned before. My hands are never "under load" if you will while riding the bike far and beyond I should be. I've not had anyone report hand cramping while riding track or hooning around, either. Also your brakes fucking suck.

No. Seriously. They're ass. Had I bought a GSXR the very first thing to go would have been that awful MC and those goofy brake lines. The Brembo stuff that's stock on the Apes is very good and not that much more expensive than the nissin and tokico stuff on the japanese bikes. The Yamahas even come with the Brembo MC stock. Every time I throw a leg over a friend's Suzuki, I immediately remember why I have steered clear of the GSXRs for so long.

So while I can hypothesize on your technique forever, I do know that your stock MC makes braking feel like you're dragging a steel ball behind the bike instead of using brakes.

[hank]

Also your brakes fucking suck.

No. Seriously. They're ass. Had I bought a GSXR the very first thing to go would have been that awful MC and those goofy brake lines.

Excellent point...

On my CBR, before I even started the bike I swapped out the brake lines for braided steel and put in quality race-spec pads... A Brembo MC completed the set-up... Now the braking action is outstanding!

[wrx_02]

Seriously though, any calluses or blisters on your hands from riding? Many times people believe they are light on the bars, but really are in 'death grip' mode without realizing it...





Search on the term 'trail braking' - you need to embrace its beauty and use it EVERY corner...

No blisters here. Can't say the same for my golfing skills but I am light on the throttle. I am usually floating my hands over the throttle as I lay into it.
Only time I really grab on is when I get out of the tuck and on the brakes.

I do trail brake. Front brake only. Hard on the brakes until I hit the turn in point and slowly let off before the first apex. Is this correct?

I'm not as experienced as most of the folks in this thread by a long shot, but...

When I'm braking pretty hard I'm keeping myself where I am on the bike I use my inner thighs, loading the front as you mentioned before. My hands are never "under load" if you will while riding the bike far and beyond I should be. I've not had anyone report hand cramping while riding track or hooning around, either. Also your brakes fucking suck.

No. Seriously. They're ass. Had I bought a GSXR the very first thing to go would have been that awful MC and those goofy brake lines. The Brembo stuff that's stock on the Apes is very good and not that much more expensive than the nissin and tokico stuff on the japanese bikes. The Yamahas even come with the Brembo MC stock. Every time I throw a leg over a friend's Suzuki, I immediately remember why I have steered clear of the GSXRs for so long.

So while I can hypothesize on your technique forever, I do know that your stock MC makes braking feel like you're dragging a steel ball behind the bike instead of using brakes.

Yeah I have been trying to find out what Pads I have on this bike. It may be part of the issue also.
The calipers are fine on the 06's, I have SS lines and good fluid. So it's the MC or the pads. I will replace both but don't want to get an MC then burn up crappy pads.

[wrx_02]

I need a 19x18 Brembo MC haven't been able to find one used yet.

[Ted / AF1 Racing]

After following everyone else's good suggestions, you have to realize that Eagles Canyon is simply a heavy braking track. For those of you unfamiliar, it's essentially straightaways punctuated by 90 degree turns. You need to ride more and get your arms and hands up to the task. I doubt you would experience the same hand cramp at nearby Cresson.

[wrx_02]

After following everyone else's good suggestions, you have to realize that Eagles Canyon is simply a heavy braking track. For those of you unfamiliar, it's essentially straightaways punctuated by 90 degree turns. You need to ride more and get your arms and hands up to the task. I doubt you would experience the same hand cramp at nearby Cresson.

You are right Ted, I never had the issue on the RSV though. I like the double apex's and hard stopping. It's the best way to pass the liter bikes. I bet it has to do with the lever/clip on position.
I am going to check it out before the next event at Cresson May 12th. Hope to see you there, I have yet to ride in a track day with you.