Help needed to decide is it safe to buy this?

[szimat]

Hi!
I'm new to the forum and new to the bikes as well. This is going to be my first "serious" bike. I'm already 31, but I like this feeling Anyway, I have the opportunity to buy this RS50, it is from 1998, with AM5 engine. I guess it is the Black Edition?
According to the seller, it is in nice condition and the engine is renewed, no damages or anything. I will have to check it, but what do you think about it? Is it likely that I will face many problems with this bike or if it is in a nice condition, it is safe to buy this? It would cost me something around EUR 600.

Is it a problem if the engine is AM5 and not AM6? Is AM6 better in anything?

Thank you and looking forward to your answer!

[dac69er]

only seem to be pics of the same side at a similar angle, always a bit suspicious something is being hidden.

looks ok though. its a highly strung small cc engine so its going to be a bit of a pain in the arse, but if its been well looked after and setup correctly it shouldnt be too bad.

others may correct me, but i think the main difference between the am5 and am6 is the am5 has 5 gears and the am6 has 6.

[RS_Patrick]

Thats a 1995 model... Max Biaggi replica, theres a lot of things pointing to that.

I expect its been crashed, why would anyone (exept if hese an idiot) pull the stickers of the fairings than, IMO they look awsome, and would have been worth more if it still had all the original decals.

AM-5 engine is 5 speed, AM-6 has a 6 speed, with a slightly closer gear ratio and a slightly longer 6th gear, so you get better acceleration from that in the first 5 gears especaily.


I see a powerfilter and a Stock exhaust so thats defenatly not reliable, on top of that it wont run to great with that combo.

And like Dac69er said, why are the pics all from basicly the same angle?

[szimat]

Many thanks for your replies! Sorry for my late answer, I was constantly travelling these days, with only by BlackBerry at hand.
Anyway, I have given up on the above RS, it is too old and in quite bad shape for that money, but in the meantime I have found another one, which should be in a much better condition and shape. According to the owner, it has been used just a few times in the past two years, and with around 17 000 km only. I spoke with the father who bought it for his son, who is not interested in the bike anymore. It was stored in a garage. There are not even scratches on the bike and everything is fully functional and in factory shape, nothing is modified.
It is from 2004 (february). Looking at the pictures at the sticky here, it is the Black/Red 99 edition (bought in 2004). Am I correct? Is that a good and reliable version and safe to buy? I guess it has an AM6 engine.
I will look at the bike probably this Saturday, but I would like to hear your advice on this. Here at the photos, (low res).

I'm probably buying this. I intend to use it to go into work office on everyday basis (2x6km/day), half in city and half of this on road (city has a speed limit of 50km/h and outside 70 km/h). And as a first bike, I intend to learn on this, before I move to a bigger one (maybe) (btw, I'm 31 years old, never too late to start).

Next I would like to ask from you to recommend me some upgrades that would make this RS a little stronger and faster (I don't intend to drive it fast, but its good to know to have some more power in any case), while keeping the engine just moderately loaded and keeping the fuel consumption as low as possible. Perhaps a powerfilter? New exhaust? Do you know where can I get a good exhaust for a reasonable price?

What are the avarage and max speed for this bike?
I also intend to download the manual (English) for this bike, can you please give me a link which one should I get?
If I drive it normally, what is the average km that a piston can hold without need of replacement?

Many thanks for all your help and sorry for this bunch of question!

[nicketynoo]

That looks well tidy mate and not too much mileage on it either. Been looking for a while on ebay and you're lucky to see one without a few scuffs on the side fairings or the nose piece. My reccomendation since you're 31 is spend as little as possible on it, maybe get it de-restricted if it isn't already and run it for a while till you get used to the lack of speed then sell it and move up to a 125. the speed and power difference will seem massive and you shouldn't lose any value on the 50.

[RS_Patrick]

@Nicketynoo, he doesnt live in the UK mate.

Anyway, how fast it can go depent on how much money you want to spend on it.

I would get rid of all the non original stickers, especaily the flames, i think there ugly, shouldnt be a problem getting them of wen you warm them with a hairdryer.

I must note that the stickers are exactly in the place where it would be scratched if it has been dropped (side frontfairing and rearfairing) and that the front indicators are not originial, if you look at parts that stick out like the footpegs and pedals and there damadged you know its been dropped for sure.
Also see that where the right hand pannel screws onto the mounting bracket (the "n" in racing) theres a weird orange circle that should not be there, and to the front the fairing doesnt line up properly with the front fairing.
Other than that the bike looks fine.

Here is the link to the User Manual RS50 2001 English version (zip file)

Hgow long the piston last before it needs replacing depents on what oil and feul the owner used, how it was set up, and how he drove it, sometimes they dont even last 15.000km and sometimes they do more than double that with out problems.

And do not use Powerfilters with these bikes...

If i where you i first get the bike and look it over what needs to be done and what carburator is under there now, and than make your choices depending on that.

[szimat]

Again, thank you for all the advices, its really appreciated!
I don't like the custom stickers neither, (the flames on the rear sides, the ones on the mudguard, and the flame that is on the front on the plexi. I hope it was not scratched and the they put the sticker to cover. You think I can remove them with a hairdryer? It wont damage the painting? Can I also remove the factory stickers this way?
How can I know if the engine is restricted or not? According to the owner, his son (around 60kg) reached the speeds of 90km/h, I guess it is not restricted then. It sounds quite good, I hope it will be able to reach it with me as well (I'm 80kg). The reason for choosing this bike is: 1) I need an alternative to replace my car to go to work (every day) 2) I would like to see and try if a sports-like bike is good for me at all, in terms of feeling, security, my abilities, convenience, etc. I believe it has a very same frame and size and driving style (less power and speed) as a Honda CBR 125 or 250, or Kawasaki 250 or perhaps an RS 125. The RS50 costs considerably less then those I have mentioned, and it is very easy to sell it (kids love it, and you can get the driving licence for it at age of 16), 3) I believe it will consume considerably less fuel then my car (7-8l/100km), I hope I can keep it around or under 3l/100km.
I'm not a 16 years old kid who want to catch girls in front of a pub with the bike, those times are already behind me, and living happily with my wife

Therefore: low fuel, reliability of the bike, and low maintenance costs are my main points now. But I don't want a moped.

EDIT: thanks for the manual! I found them, but I was not sure which one is for this model (now I know that it is the 2001 version).

[RS_Patrick]

I would seriously leave the factory stickers on there mate, removing them decreases the resale value by more than a 1/4
You can remove the stickers easly with a hairdryer, if you look at my picture you see i got a monotail with the original stickers on them, i tranfered them from the original (damadged) rear end with a hairdryer, so it works perfectly, but once again, removing the original stickers seriously harms the resale value + i think it looks better with the original decals than with out.




If you want to run it at 3 liters per 100 kilometers good luck, thats what it does fully stock, if you change anything you increase fuel consumption, but its still posible to get 1 to 30 out of it if you fit 0.25mm reeds and an Arrow or Giannelli exhaust and shift early and have the bike run 75kmh tops.

If you want to have a fun bike (these bikes got superiour handling even compaired to bigger sports bikes due to there low weight) than your looking at 5 liters per 100 kilometers at least.
That means installing a better/bigger carb kit (if it still has the original DelLorto SHA), bigger front sprocket (best to renew the rear and chain also at once) good cilinder kit (50cc or big bore), a good exhaust system, i recomend fitting an upgrade CDI unit also for better ignition timing curve.
Other parts that will also help are a Full Crank and stiffer clutch springs.

From the pictures it looks like you need atleast a new rear tire, but if i where you i do both the front and rear tire at the same time, i can highly recomend Micelin Pilot Sporty tires, they feel like there glued to the road in the corners.
And check the Brakepads while your at it.

Furthermore in any case i would drain the bike of all its fluids (gearbox oil, cooling fluid, brake fluid) and put fresh in, unless the brake fluid really looks cristal clear, than i would leave that alone.
Use only premium fuel and oils, do not use the gearbox oil thats recomended in the manual, your much better of buying a premium Fully Syntetic 10W-40 4T Motorcycle oil for use with Wet Clutch, costs a bit more, but saves you money in the end and the gearbox shifts a lot better with it.

And what ever you do do not use a Powerfilter and dont dril holes in the airbox, it lets in plenty of air as it is.

[szimat]

Thank you again!
I intend to leave the original stickers intact, just to remove the custom ones (which are indeed very ugly). I like the original stickers too, for me this one is the nicest one from all models. (I like the completely black version as well).
I'll try to keep the fuel consumption as low as possible. I'm about to find the best compromise between fuel/performance. Looking at the graphs in the sticky, the stock exhaust performs very good, no need to change it.
I'll intend to change all the fluids. Is it safe to use 4T oil in a 2T engine for the gearbox?
Which oil would you recommend in general for all fluids? For my car I always use Castrol (Edge).
In case of tires, I will try to change both of them, probably to a Continental Conti Go (half of the Michelin price, or perhaps Pirelli - if I can find a sale).
Perhaps I will replace the clear plexi with a dark/smoke one. Do you knwo where and for how much I can get a dark plexi (used is OK, but good condition)?
Maybe I'll replace the seat to a black one, that would look even better. How much does a seat costs for this model?

Other then this, I do not intend to spend much on the bike, just to have the required maintenance and repairs done in time. I'm always taking very good care of all my vehicles, and drive them safely.
If the bike is in good shape, can I count on it that I will not have to spend too much on repairs and servicing?

You have a very nice bike!

[RS_Patrick]

Im not gonna explain the oil thing all over again, do a search of the forum for it.

Castrol Power One/RS Racing 4T 10W-40, Shell Advance Ultra 4 10W-40 or Motul 300V 4T 10W-40 are the best oils i have tried out my self for the Gearbox.

For the 2Stroke mix oil Castrol Power One/RS Racing 2T, Shall Advance Ultra 2 or Motul 710 2T are great.

Feul: Shell V-Power

Cooling Fluid: Ready to use cooling fluid suitable for Aluminium Engines.

Fork Oil: Fully Syntetic between 5W and 20W

Brake Fluid: Dot 5.1

I dont like those ContiGo tires at all, maybe the ones i mentioned here are a better choice for you:
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...es-for-04-rs50

The Windshield is Smoke already from the factory, i wouldnt bother with changing that unless its damadged.
And if you leave the original decals than also leave the original seat, i fitted a black one on mine to see how it looked, and also changed the Y-pannels to black see how that looked, but didnt like it.
In any case changing cosmetic stuf like that is just a waste of money wich you could use better for other stuff on the bike.

Seriously, try to talk some money of the price of the bike with the info i gave you in my first post about the things i see wrong with it and the things you need to look at, and than if you got the bike look it over and see how it drives.
Than you can make better desisions about what you want to change on the bike or not.

But if you want a really cheap bike to drive the 6km to work with a RS50 (or similar bike) might not be the thing for you, and you are probably beter of with a Peugeot Fox/Honda Walleroo or even a Classic like a Honda C50.

[szimat]

I have searched the forum, and I believe you, I will probably use Shell Advance Ultra 4 10W-40 for the gearbox, this one I was able to locate in a shop near me for a good price. I guess Shell is premium quality (some argue that even better then Castrol).
For 2Stroke mix oil I found Castrol Power One 2T for quite a good price. BTW, aprox. how much oil I need for 100km?
I'm having some problems with the fork oil. I also searched around the forum and i see you recommend 20W full synthetic for forks. I could not locate Castrol fork oil 20W full synt. Is 20W the best choice? I'm 82kg and will ride in the city for most of the time and the roads are very bad in Hungary. Can you recommend a concrete fork oil (perhaps with a link)?

Do you have the black seat? Perhaps you would like to sell it? PM me if yes

Can I ask what was the problem with the ContiGO! tires? I'm just curious.

The Honda C50 is very serious, that would be certainly a low budget choice. But I think I will try the RS50 and if for any reason I'm not satisfied, I will sell it.

Thanks for all your help, it is really appreciated!

[RS_Patrick]

I use both Shell Advance Ultra 4 10W-40 and Shell Advance Ultra 2 for 2 stroke, and only run Shell V-Power feul (really does increase performance a little, unlike the other brands), i use the 2 stroke and feul for my bike and my outboard boat engine.

You run a few 100km on a bottle of 2 stroke oil with the oilpump.

Fork Oil is Max 20W, that gives you a bit stiffer suspension, if you want it more comfortable/softer than you use a lower grade oil.

The problem with the ContiGo tires is there a hard compound, i also think they puncture easy, thats why it doesnt wear much, but it doesnt have a lot of grip, and there no good in the rain at all, especaily on a bit dirty roadsurface.

I dont have a black drivers seat, i tried one on there on the bike shop where i worked.

[szimat]

Thanks again Patrick, you are really helping a lot!
It looks that the second bike I have posted is going to be mine, it looks very much that I will be able to agree on the price.
Regarding the gearbox oil: I have a friend who knows quite a lot about engines, he rides a Kawasaki 600 and he will help me to do all the necessary work on my RS since I'm not really familiar with these things (I hope I will be after some time). I have mentioned to him the gearbox oil that we should use the 4T Shell you have recommended instead of the one listed in the manual, and he thinks it is a wrong decision. I searched the forum but I didn't find a post explaining why is the 4T oil better. Can you help me with the link, I'm also interested and would like to explain him as well. So this 4T oil will not damage the gearbox at all, even if it is a 10W-40 compared to the 75W-90?

I will change all the fluids when I get the bike. Regarding the fork oil, I really don't know which way to proceed. Which is the stock? For city drive and for not too good road conditions will 15W be a good choice? Which would you recommend? I found these two oils, I'm not sure are these good choices, one is Agip and the other is Motul. Are these good to go with?

In terms of tires, I will save for Pirelli MT-75 or Michelin Pilot Sporty. Is the MT-75 even better then Sporty is, in terms of grip and durability (safety comes first).

I got another question for you, if you will have some free time to answer this, it is not urgent. I see that easyparts.nl has a very nice choice and reasonable prices.
I believe everything is stock (including the carb) on the RS I'm buying. I'm not sure about the ware of the piston, cylinder, crankshaft, etc. Could you link me from the page the required and recommended parts I would need if I'm about to renew the engine? If possible, one that is not too expensive but of good quality, that is, the best value for price choices. Perhaps something that is little stronger then the stock is, but not too big that would need replacement more often and have much more fuel consumption. I do hope that even if I need to replace the piston I don't need to replace the crankshaft.

Many thanks for all your help!

[RS_Patrick]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear_oil

API viscosity ratings for gear oils are not directly comparable with those for motor oil, and they are thinner than the figures suggest. For example, many modern gearboxes use a 75W90 gear oil, which is actually of equivalent viscosity to a 10W40 motor oil. Multigrade gear oils are becoming more common; while gear oil does not reach the temperatures of motor oil, it does warm up appreciably as the car is driven, due mostly to shear friction (with a small amount of heat conduction through the bellhousing from the engine block).

Motor Oil is used to Cool the Engine parts that get extremly hot also, like the Piston, so its not just for lubrication, Gear Oil can not handle that kind of heat and would probably burn.
Motor Oil has also rating is also strickter, for example 75W-90 Gear oil can have a Viscosity between 5W-30 to 15W-50 compaired to Motor oil, on top of that Motor oil has more specail additives to keep it still lubricating incase the oil get conteminated with feul or cooling fluid.

I linked to the User Manual in English for the bike in post #6, that list what oils are in there stock.

Michelin Pilot Sporty has much more grip than the Pirelli MT-75, and the MT-75 comes in speed ratings 2 ratings, the P and the S rating, they look exactly the same but the S rated tire has a lot more grip.
A word of warning on the Michelin Pilot Sporty, you need to pay close atencion to the direction you have them fitted on the rim, they got 2 arrows in oposite directions, one is for wen you fit it on the front, and the other is the direction for wen you fit it on the rear.

I look at the other stuff wen i got some more time.

[szimat]

Excellent, thank you! I'll keep this in mind and will use the 4T oil (Shell) for the gearbox. Strange that Aprilia does not recommend this in start if it is so much a better choice then the 75W-90 gearbox oils.

Regarding the forks: Yes, I have the manual, it says between 5W and 20W. I guess I'll go with Agip 15W oil, although I'm not sure if it is fully synthetic oil or not.

Thanks for the advise on the Michelin Sporty tires!

Regarding the new engine parts, take your time, it is not urgent at all.

BTW, the manual says that the piston should be replaced every 16 000km. Is it possible to replace only the piston, without doing anything with the cylinder, or it is not recommended at all?

Thank you!