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Thread: First face to face CRT vs MotoGP: Jerez 22-Feb-2012: ART vs client Ducati GP12

  1. #1
    apriliaforum Junkie RS4EVER's Avatar
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    First face to face CRT vs MotoGP: Jerez 22-Feb-2012: ART vs client Ducati GP12

    Final Jerez test times (after three days testing in sunny conditions):

    Barberá (client GP12) 1´40.00
    De Puniet (ART) 1'40.30 (66 laps)
    Espargaró (ART) 1'41.10 (60 laps)
    Pasini (ART) 1'41.29 (47 laps)
    Petrucci (Ioda-Aprilia) 1'41.60 (62 laps)
    Ellison (ART) 1'42.526 (53 laps)

    Circuit record lap 1´39.731 (Pedrosa 2010 800cc).

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    apriliaforum expert JedB's Avatar
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    That's pretty impressive for DePuniet.

    The others seem to be clustering right around the same time 1.41.xx as well.

    Here is the top 15 from the Qualifying practise in 2011

    Casey STONER 1'38.757
    Dani PEDROSA 1'38.915
    Jorge LORENZO 1'38.918
    Ben SPIES 1'39.390
    Marco SIMONCELLI 1'39.486
    Andrea DOVIZIOSO 1'39.709
    Randy DE PUNIET 1'39.892
    Colin EDWARDS 1'39.895
    Cal CRUTCHLOW 1'40.019
    Hiroshi AOYAMA 1'40.168
    Nicky HAYDEN 1'40.175
    Valentino ROSSI 1'40.185
    Hector BARBERA 1'40.217
    John HOPKINS 1'40.310
    Loris CAPIROSSI 1'40.523

  3. #3
    apriliaforum expert Miticale's Avatar
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    Seems that they slot in right where we'd expect them too.

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    Racing SERVICE Competition Steve / AF1 Racing's Avatar
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    If that indicated performance parity between 2nd tier Prototypes and the CRT Aprilias (ARTs) holds throughout the season, Dorna will find itself holding it's hat in its hands on the Aprilia Corse doorstep.

    It has got to be a gratifying turn of events for Aprilia Corse, whom Dorna, and another unnamed Japanese factory, expended considerable political resources and energy to ensure that their hegemony in in the lower cylinder classes would be terminated. Now Aprilia Corse will have to be welcomed back into MotoGP with open arms and sincere apologies since it appears that Aprilia will be the savior of Carmelo Espeleta's (Dorna's chief) beloved CRT concept.
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    apriliaforum expert JedB's Avatar
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    I like that Barbera is at his same time and Randy is within 1/2 a second.

    I hope the race within a race will be exciting and so far it doesn't look like it will disappoint.

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    apriliaforum expert cggunnersmate's Avatar
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    That's really nice to see, I had a feeling the ARTs would be the most competitive of the CRTs and they're showing that so far. Though their biggest advantage is probably in the electronics, I'm pretty sure DePuniet has the same electronics package as the Factory Superbike team. I bet Ducati brass is more than annoyed how close they are and will scrutinize the ART teams closely.

    But as long as the CRT teams OWN their ARTs or engines (IODA team), and they aren't maintained by Aprilia employees then they should be fine.
    Last edited by cggunnersmate; 02-22-2012 at 04:42 PM.
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    apriliaforum Junkie klowry's Avatar
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    The 1:40.3 also was just .6 seconds behind the race lap record of 1:39.7 set in 2010 by Dani Pedrosa on an 800cc prototype, so it appears Aprilia could reach Ezpeleta's goal of having CRT bikes taunting and challenging satellite bikes during the season. Considering the short development time CRT's have had, Aprilia has shown some serious potential. BMW has a lot of catching up to do with their CRT efforts.
    Fun to watch and cheer on the Aprilia teams in MotoGP!

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    apriliaforum expert
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    linkie here.

    http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/176..._at_jerez.html

    Let's hope that Espeleta likes CRT more than he hates the Piaggio Group (and Aprilia)....
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    Rider of Motorcycle billerzal's Avatar
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    Also significant that Barbera was the top Ducati satellite rider last year. It will be fun cheering for the ART bikes.

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    apriliaforum Junkie
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    One thing that has been a bit (imo) overlooked here is how much feedback will filter back to Aprilia from the crt teams.
    This might be an advantage to Aprilia in bike development
    I don´t think the satellite teams are that useful to the factory motogp teams in this respect.

  11. #11
    apriliaforum expert cggunnersmate's Avatar
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    I guess that would depend on if data sharing was part of the ART contract. But according to the CRT rules, the CRT teams have to OWN their bikes, so no leasing chassis or engines (like the team KR211V that used leased Honda motors). So, according to the rules, if Honda was willing to sell whole RC213V's to a team and provide no direct support after, then you "could" run a Honda RC213V as a CRT entry. But that would never happen, the factories LEASE their bikes for millions of dollars, buying one would be rediculous and they wouldn't want to risk a competitor getting to tear down one of thier GP bikes.

    Still, for the ART teams at least, I imagine there will be data sharing as any chassis refinements would likely come from Aprilia. Though they would then need to buy the new chassis. So depending on how much development the bikes need, the CRTs could get VERY expensive if they're buying new chassis' a lot.
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    From what I understand, satellite teams are not able to do much more than setup work on "their" bikes, whereas as you said the crt bikes belong to the teams and they can try to find their own solutions to the upcoming problems in handling etc. This info would most likely filter back to the factory, helping them in developing the package further.
    Sometimes it is beneficial to get solutions, or questions, from outside the box, as you tend to get a kind of tunnel vision when you work for longer times in one particular area.
    One example comes to mind. When BMW started the enduro project, their bike was designed by a German Engineer, so it was, by definition, perfect. In reality it was a pos that multiple world champions couldn´t get to work properly. It only started to improve when they took feedback from guys like Juha Salminen and David Knight seriously.

  13. #13
    apriliaforum expert cggunnersmate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlliW View Post
    From what I understand, satellite teams are not able to do much more than setup work on "their" bikes, whereas as you said the crt bikes belong to the teams and they can try to find their own solutions to the upcoming problems in handling etc. This info would most likely filter back to the factory, helping them in developing the package further.
    Sometimes it is beneficial to get solutions, or questions, from outside the box, as you tend to get a kind of tunnel vision when you work for longer times in one particular area.
    One example comes to mind. When BMW started the enduro project, their bike was designed by a German Engineer, so it was, by definition, perfect. In reality it was a pos that multiple world champions couldn´t get to work properly. It only started to improve when they took feedback from guys like Juha Salminen and David Knight seriously.

    Exactly, just look at Ducati and their woes with the CF monocoque "chassis". The bike got harder to ride every year but they kept going the same direction, even after VR and Burgess got there. Stoner dominated on it in 07 when it still had the steel trellis and he was on pace to win again in 08 until Laguna and Rossi threw him for loop. His lactose intolerance may have been creeping up on him that year too. Then in 09 they switched to the monocoque and started a downward spiral that came to a head for Stoner in 10. He found the gravel a lot that year. Plus no other rider had been able to do much with it aside from occaisional moments from Nicky. The bike pretty much killed Capirex and Melandri's GP careers, Loris just clung on longer. It was only after lots of pressure from VR and crew did Ducati finally relent and go toward a more traditional chassis design and Rossi's already shown more improvement on that than he did all year on the frameless design.

    As you said the satellite teams can do little more than set up changes to the bike. They can't alter the frames and god forbid they tear down a motor. They have factory techs assigned to their teams to take care of the bikes and either the bikes as a whole or more often the motors would go back to the factory for service.

    Team KR did a LOT of their stuff in house but their V5 motor was never where it needed to be so they ended up leasing Honda motors (tried KTM but couldn't get the deal/motors together). They had some success but ran out of money.

    WCM was pretty much the prototype CRT team (own chassis with motors that source some parts from R1 motors) and they got sanctioned for that as it was against the rules at the time. Turns out they were pioneers of the method that may save GP racing.
    Last edited by cggunnersmate; 02-23-2012 at 08:40 AM.
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