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Thread: Lithium/Iron Battery Primer (LiFePO4)

  1. #76
    apriliaforum expert kzmille's Avatar
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    Excess heat could be a problem for the battery as well as the starter. First thing I would do is check the voltage across the battery while cranking. First when cold and again when hot. Could reveal something. Amperage too if you have the tools.
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  2. #77
    apriliaforum Junkie Snucks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by undergrounder View Post
    hello everybody,

    last summer i bought a aprilia sxv 550.
    the battery whas around 4 years old and whas getting weak.
    so i bought a lithium skyrich battery.
    at the first start of the day when the engine is cold it cranks fast and starts good.
    but when the bike have been running and i want to start it like after filling it up at the gas station it cranks real slow and almost wont fire up again....
    I already checked and tested the stator all good.
    Battery voltage when bike is running is 14,5v
    Then i send the battery and voltage regulator back fore testing.
    Regulator whas good and the battery to, but they send me a new one just to be shure.
    So tested today, and it started a bit better whit a hot engine.
    But not as good as the first start, or if i would start it 4 hours later.
    Chargingsystem seems okay as i let the bike rest fore a while it starts and cranks with enough power, so it looks like there is getting energy in the battery. But it cant get out/used when the bike is warmed up?.
    Now i have been searching a lot on the web and the only thing i could find whas that cold temperature could affect the starting proces.
    But what about heat? The open battery box is located right above and aside of my exhaust.
    Could that heat affect the cranking power of a lithium battery or should i search fore a problem elsewhere?
    Easy starting when cold but difficult and slow when hot almost always means the battery to solenoid or solenoid to starter cable is undersized or has too much resistance in it.

    I replaced the original cables in my Falco with some 4ga cables from an auto parts store (cost 12 bucks total) I also cleaned up all grounding connections and hit them with some PB Blaster. I cut up and reused some of the old 8ga cable as two extra grounds. One to the subframe and another to the engine block. It was a little below freezing last night and this morning the starter was spinning so fast I almost did not need to use the choke lever. I did some running around at lunch and even after sitting there soaking up heat for awhile there has been zero degradation in starter performance.

    for further clarification here is my set up

    2002 Falco 12k miles

    Regulator rectifier from a 2010 cbr1000rr (Shindengen FH014AA ) 40 bucks shipped from ebay
    Motobatt MBTX12U battery that is at least a year old and was being subjected to the horribad stock charging system
    new 4ga starter cables
    original 8ga cables re crimped and shortened to use as grounds.

    charging voltage at idle is 14.4v
    voltage above idle is pegged at 14.5v
    voltage at idle with brakes on is 13.8v
    voltage at idle with cooling fans on is 13.3v

    if you are going to do electrical work I HIGHLY recommend a decent dvom

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  3. #78
    apriliaforum Member undergrounder's Avatar
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    I already put thicker cables on.
    And also new brushes in the starter motor.
    So this weekend I will strap my battery onto my seat to be sure about the heat

  4. #79
    apriliaforum expert ledwrist's Avatar
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    Interesting article on lithium battery degradation.

    http://www.dispatchtribunal.com/degr...eal-time/8563/

  5. #80
    apriliaforum expert ScottG's Avatar
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    Don't know how much difference it makes but those were lithium ion where most if not all bike batteries are lithium iron phosphate. They're not the same make up from what I understand & the change was because of the fire hazard from the older design.

  6. #81
    The Anal Intruder William the Third's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
    Don't know how much difference it makes but those were lithium ion where most if not all bike batteries are lithium iron phosphate. They're not the same make up from what I understand & the change was because of the fire hazard from the older design.
    There are quite a few different chemistries that fall into the lithium-ion battery family, each with different pros/cons. All lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries are lithium-ion batteries, but not all lithium-ion batteries are lithium iron phosphate batteries. That said, a quick scan of the article seems to indicate that they are looking specifically at lithium manganese oxide (LMnO2) batteries.
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  7. #82
    apriliaforum expert TimeBandit's Avatar
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    ^^^ Well said.

    The term "lithium" can often put people into alarm, but it is important to emphasize that there are many lithium chemistry's as stated above. The balance/trade-off being energy-density -vs- stability on each side of the spectrum. The "Iron" chemistry being formulated for the most safety, and the lithium polymer being for the greatest density - think RC cars and cell phones. Recent news regarding "hover boards" catching fire is a result of the volatile lithium polymer chemistry - poor business decision, as they should have used the iron chemistry.

  8. #83
    apriliaforum expert Raindog's Avatar
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    Picked up two of the battery tender brand last August for the triumph and the ducati. Figured that since the battery in the T was eleven years old and the one in the duc was going on six I might as well replace them and save some weight also. I bought lithium tenders to match even though they are supposed to have a really low discharge rate.

    All was well last season and I would randomly hook up the chargers every now and then. A few months ago I started the fiesta project so everything got moved around in the garage and the bikes were off the tenders.

    About a week ago I finished up the car and put the bikes back in their normal spots and put tenders on all of them. The kawi and ape went green in a few hours, the triumph and duc blinked red for three days. Went to start the duc yesterday and it was stone dead, checked the triumph, same thing.

    So this was my first and last foray into L/I tech, I'll be picking up two new lead acid's today I guess.
    Last edited by Raindog; 03-31-2017 at 11:02 AM.
    When the river is low they find old bones, when they plow they always dig up chains

  9. #84
    apriliaforum expert banzairx7's Avatar
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    Don't give up on them just yet. Try hooking them directly to a charged battery to get the voltage up. The chargers won't charge a completely dead battery. Once you get the standing voltage up over ten volts I bet they charge up just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raindog View Post
    Picked up two of the battery tender brand last August for the triumph and the ducati. Figured that since the battery in the T was eleven years old and the one in the duc was going on six I might as well replace them and save some weight also. I bought a lithium tenders to match even though they are supposed to have a really low discharge rate.

    All was well last season and I would randomly hook up the chargers every now and then. A few months ago I started the fiesta project so everything got moved around in the garage and the bikes were off the tenders.

    About a week ago I finished up the car and put the bikes back in their normal spots and put tenders on all of them. The kawi and ape went green in a few hours, the triumph and duc blinked red for three days. Went to start the duc yesterday and it was stone dead, checked the triumph, same thing.

    So this was my first and last foray into L/I tech, I'll be picking up two new lead acid's today I guess.
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  10. #85
    apriliaforum expert Raindog's Avatar
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    I'll give it a shot but at this point I don't trust them to hold a charge for more than a few days. The one I replaced in the '06 daytona was the original battery and never gave any trouble.
    When the river is low they find old bones, when they plow they always dig up chains

  11. #86
    apriliaforum expert ledwrist's Avatar
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    If this turns out to be a viable technology it will accelerate the demise of the internal combustion engine..

    https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/g...ery-technology

  12. #87
    apriliaforum expert Raindog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banzairx7 View Post
    Don't give up on them just yet. Try hooking them directly to a charged battery to get the voltage up. The chargers won't charge a completely dead battery. Once you get the standing voltage up over ten volts I bet they charge up just fine.
    Got them up to twelve from the car battery and they are on tenders now. I'll report back tomorrow.
    When the river is low they find old bones, when they plow they always dig up chains

  13. #88
    apriliaforum expert Raindog's Avatar
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    Back from the dead, thanks for the info Banz, you saved me a couple hundred bucks.
    When the river is low they find old bones, when they plow they always dig up chains

  14. #89
    apriliaforum expert Stu_O's Avatar
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    And so it starts...

    From the latest edition of Honda's technician newsletter, The Wrench. The 2017 CBR1000 will be their first powersports vehicle equipped with a Lithium Iron battery. They caution that no charger for any lead-acid type can be used, or it'll damage the battery, so I suppose the bike's charging system is also optimized for Li. I'd like to post the article here, but it's copyrighted. Some bike rag will get it soon enough and post it up.

    Stu

  15. #90
    apriliaforum newb
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    the one I had for three years works great, no complaints.

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