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Thread: Starter no turn - magnet frag'd...

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    Starter no turn - magnet frag'd...

    Among the charging issues on my bike, I go to ride yesterday and it won't turn over. WTF! I throw on the battery charger - nothing. F...

    Charge battery over night - all looks good; still won't turn over - just "click". I check resistance and voltage drops at various places, test the solenoid, etc. - all look good. F....

    Pull the starter and connect to car battery. Spins up but sounds funny. Connect to bike with jumper cables, spins up from bike battery - good - but WTF?

    Pull the starter apart, ouch... Magnet came loose from housing and broke in to several pieces. One big piece (80%?) remains I think I can use - find some adhesive.. Half dozen or so small pieces... What a PITA. I'm guessing broken magnet was binding the starter and the bike battery didn't have enough juice to break it loose. When I pull it off the bike I tried spinning it by hand (both directions) so that and the extra power from the car battery must have freed things up.

    So, any ideas on adhesive to bond the magnet back to the housing?

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    Bump

    Sorry for being impatient, wanting to get this fixed today if possible. I'm thinking a decent high-temp epoxy would be good, but I did discover various purpose made adhesives. There's a place in town that rebuilds motors, generators, etc. - I think I'll give them a shout and see what they would use.

    TIA

    G

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    apriliaforum expert RAS's Avatar
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    My neighbor came crying to me last weekend cause her electric lawnmower died. I pulled the top of the motor and found the same problem. One of the magnets broke loose, shattered into bits and froze the motor. I'd never seen a motor fail like that before. But gotta figure a lawn muncher motor takes a beating.

    If it's not in too many pieces, I'd go right for the JB weld. My neighbor now has a new mower

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    Ah yes, JB Weld... Is it good for heat? I'm assuming the starter will be at engine temp +/- a bit.

    The smaller pieces are worthless. Luckily I have 80% or more of the piece that came lose. If I had inspected the starter before connecting to the car battery it may not be broken at all Oh well - I think 80% will be fine....

  5. #5
    apriliaforum expert RAS's Avatar
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    Epoxy should hold up to that amount of heat. I'd be more worried about losing some of the starter's power with the loss of some the magnet. If the starter cannot spin the motor properly, if what i read is correct, you will put more load on the sprag clutch.

    Give it a go. but if the starter motor sounds like it's working real hard, you'll be better off in the long run biting the bullet and replacing - maybe find a used one.

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    Hmmmm

    Sprag clutch? Must be in the engine housing, there's no clutch in the starter motor itself.

    I have (3) full magnets and as much as 90% of the other. I'm thinking I'll be OK. If not, maybe used or replace the magnets.

  7. #7
    apriliaforum expert RAS's Avatar
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    The sprag clutch is a one way clutch that the starter motor spins. The clutch then spins the flywheel. When the motor fires, the clutch freewheels so that the starter motor does not spin at engine speed. It's about $1000 worth of bits behind the flywheel on the other side of the motor. Life is never simple.

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    makes sense

    after looking at the starter and realizing there was no clutch in it - or engage/disengage solenoid, I figured there had to be something inside the engine. With as much $$ as that starter cost you'd think it would engage/disengage and save the whole internal clutch stuff. Whatever - d@mn Italians!

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    apriliaforum expert RAS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gman-1970 View Post
    after looking at the starter and realizing there was no clutch in it - or engage/disengage solenoid, I figured there had to be something inside the engine. With as much $$ as that starter cost you'd think it would engage/disengage and save the whole internal clutch stuff. Whatever - d@mn Italians!
    Dunno how many bike manufacturers do it this way. Maybe not all, but I'd say many.

    If the sprag failed on an older K bike, it involved removing the entire ass end of the bike to get at the flywheel. Many hours of expensive labor and factory tools - and the parts were no cheaper.

    Don't blame it on Italy. The Rotax is Austrian.

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    apriliaforum expert bikpaintr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAS View Post
    If the sprag failed on an older K bike, it involved removing the entire ass end of the bike to get at the flywheel. Many hours of expensive labor and factory tools - and the parts were no cheaper.

    Makes you miss the simplicity of the old Airheads doesn't it? That Bosch starter could be rebuilt & the solenoid can be found at any automotive electrical shop.
    John B.
    02 Ash Black w/Staintunes, PC3 w/custom map, Evo Filter, Mille Air Boot, derestricted air box, Heli-Bars, Wilbers shock, new rectifier, Scottoiler, heated grips, T'meister, c/f frt. fender & hugger.

  11. #11
    apriliaforum expert RAS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikpaintr View Post
    Makes you miss the simplicity of the old Airheads doesn't it? That Bosch starter could be rebuilt & the solenoid can be found at any automotive electrical shop.
    Amen to that!!!!

    Losing the sprag clutch was the death knell for my buddy's '85 K100RS in 1996. It had well over 100,000 miles and was not worth what it was gonna cost to repair at the time.

    Listening to the starter just spin and have nothing happen was more than a bit sad.

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    You guys are scaring me... If it ever fails it will be time for a big bore kit, cams, machine work, etc. Or maybe by then I can find a V4 and fit it? I'm sure without the body panels though - or maybe they will fit with "minor" tweaks. Mostly kidding, but a V4 Futura would be nice - or even 1200cc with 150hp and 100lb/ft? Yeah, that'd be sweet!

    I found a place in MO that will fix my magnet for "five or ten bucks". Will even clean it and media blast! Dude said they use some special high temp epoxy you can't buy just anywhere and it's $60 / tube. Thus, it's worth the gas money to have them fix it. Plus they've treated me right on some alternators so I don't mind paying them - good people. C & C Alternators and Starters in Raytown, MO for the record.

    G

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    apriliaforum expert RAS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gman-1970 View Post
    You guys are scaring me... If it ever fails it will be time for a big bore kit, cams, machine work, etc. Or maybe by then I can find a V4 and fit it? I'm sure without the body panels though - or maybe they will fit with "minor" tweaks. Mostly kidding, but a V4 Futura would be nice - or even 1200cc with 150hp and 100lb/ft? Yeah, that'd be sweet!

    I found a place in MO that will fix my magnet for "five or ten bucks". Will even clean it and media blast! Dude said they use some special high temp epoxy you can't buy just anywhere and it's $60 / tube. Thus, it's worth the gas money to have them fix it. Plus they've treated me right on some alternators so I don't mind paying them - good people. C & C Alternators and Starters in Raytown, MO for the record.

    G
    If they can replace that magnet with a one that's whole, that would be well worth the trip.

    Replacing the sprag on the Rotax is not a huge job, but it's not something to look forward to either. And some money can be saved by sourcing the clutch itself from Ducati or even from the BMW 650s(also rotax)

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    Dude said the missing piece of the magnet would be no big deal. Seems right to me so I agreed. Now, if it was 50% gone I might be a bit more concerned!

  15. #15
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    FYI: Starter installed and working great! Hopefully the (3) mags that were still attached stay that way for a LONG time. I have zero concerns about the piece that was bonded - I don't think I could break it off if I tried. One problem solved, 3,000 more!

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