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Thread: HOW TO idle tune an old-gen (Denso equipped) bike with an EGA

  1. #1
    apriliaforum expert Gabro's Avatar
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    HOW TO idle tune an old-gen (Denso equipped) bike with an EGA

    1) clean the TB's butterflyes
    2) check and/or replace plugs and airfilter
    3) fully un-screw the idle knob
    4) connect the DIAG wires (under the right underseat panel)
    5) key-on: check the TPS Zero position. Adjust if necessary. Slap close the throttle a few times to settle the butterfly fully closed. Disconnect the DIAG wire when done
    6) set the bypass brass screws (TB's left side):
    -> 51mm ad 54/57mm TB's generally needs different air bypass set-up: so try rear screw to one turn out from closed, front screw 1.5 turns out fronm fully closed for the bigger TB's, 2 turns out rear and 2.5 turns out front for the 51mm tb's.
    Anyway that's only a base point. If the bike can't idle with the screws so closed, try openup 'em more. Try to keep the motor un-balanced with the front cylinder stronger than the rear.

    7) set the ECU trimpots both to zero position at 12 o'clock (the one near the ECU connectors is for the rear cylinder). Try to run the pots around that position, if you have to go far away on the rich or on the lean side maybe there's a problem elsewere.
    8) start the bike and let it warmup.
    9) once warm, the bike should have a nice and regular low idle with no idle knob... so you can start messing with bypass screws and trimpots.
    when the coolant temperature rises above 93C, the ECU enrich the mixture to cooldown, and the cooling fans on makes the injectors slower, enriching too... any adjustment have to be done below 90C and/or with the fans off (i advice to arrange a big fan in front of the bike, and/or a friend that sprays water on the radiators)
    10) TB's bypass screws mainly modify HC value and idle rpm, ECU trimpots mainly work on CO
    11) Use the CO ports on the headers and work one cylinder at the time (arrange a "T" union with exclusion valves on the analizer port)
    Working on a cylinder will vary the reading on the other too, double check back and forth often.
    CO+CO2 has to be about 15%
    O2 less than 1% (if you read more than 1% means that where is an air leak in the line). If there's an air leak and you'r not able to correct, use the COcorr data
    Set the CO between 3 and 4.5 and HC < 1000ppm.
    Rear cylinder has to be a little richer than the front (about 0.5% in CO).
    Once happy, check the hi-rpm idle (about 2500 rpm)... readings can vary, generally are leaner than the low idle, but the differences between the two cylinders have to be the same and stable.
    12) if you'r not able to bring down the HC value, maybe your motor is burning a little of oil.
    13) every motor will tell you how it like to run, do not force it running leaner or richer than the mixture it sound nicely and crisp.
    14) tune the motor at low idle, about 1000-1100rpm with non knob, you'll can rise it later.
    15) if you occasionally use a noise baffle in the can, remeber that the baffle usually makes the idle mixture leaner than the open-pipe configuration. Tune the bike in the configuration you'll use most, and you'll like to have the better throttle respose and mileage.
    GENERAL NOTE: do not go much away on basic setting on both CO trimpots and Bypass screws position. Expecially CO Trimpots are very powerfull in terms of fuel quantity, do not exceed in trimming. Usual "good" position is between 10 and 2 o' clock.

    hope this help, any comment is apreciated
    Last edited by Gabro; 07-28-2013 at 12:32 AM. Reason: Editing the BOLD part
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  2. #2
    apriliaforum expert QuickHX's Avatar
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    The definitive guide

    Nice, Gab!

    BTW, I just saw an hour long documentary, mostly shot from helicopters, of Sicily.
    You lucky bastard!!!!!!!!!!!!

    -Quick
    --------------
    Throttle body settings: "It's more a philosophy than pure numbers." -Gabro

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  3. #3
    apriliaforum expert old git's Avatar
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    Gabro,thanks for the guide, I have played most of today, CO was out, front was around 2% rear over 6% so as I thought the garage had not done a good job previously, they were not taking care to ensure temp below 93'c and worked with no fan which is why I was unsure of their expertise.

    I have now set the TB bypass screws for a smooth idle, idle speed increased by about 200 rpm even though there is now a bigger difference between front & rear bypass screws. Started at 1 turn & 1 1/2 turns as suggested but it was hunting slightly played back & forth which evened out the CO a bit & made the idle smoother & higher.
    Then played with the trimpots and had the CO down around 3 1/2% - 4 1/2% range but temp got too hot for any further finer tuning.
    Took for a test ride and the bike seems to pick-up quicker in all gears, sounds louder (is that possible) and 'feels' more agressive.
    Maybe it is having cleaned plugs & new air filter, but I believe it has made a good effect on the engine running overall.
    Before I had to use the idle adjuster to make a smooth idle at around 1350rpm, now with idle adjuster wound completely off, it idles smooth at 1450! seems to want to run quicker.

    Thanks for your help and guidance.

    Keith

  4. #4
    apriliaforum expert FASTER !'s Avatar
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    Hi Quick ; I will attach pics after , you are going to need a few items.
    1 - two paper clips , plastic covered with the ends exposed , these are inserted into the tps plug from the back as in pic attached.
    2- a multimeter that can read millivolts with shielded crocodile clips to clip onto the ends of the paper clips
    3- a small T20 or T25 torx allen key or bit that fits the bolts holding the tps in position.

    PLEASE NOTE This is a "live adjustment" made with the battery connected and ignition switch on so you can read the voltage output back to the ecu. DO NOT LET THE PAPERCLIPS OR MULTIMETER LEADS TOUCH OR YOU MAY CAUSE DAMAGE TO THE TPS OR ECU.

    Step1 - Ignition switch off ; insert the paper clips into the back of the tps plug as shown , round the edges off on the clips with a bit of waterpaper to make it easy to insert.
    Step2 - back the remote idle adjuster out 6-10 turns and snap the throttle shut.
    Step3 - loosen the bolts holding the tps onto the throttle body a little , do not move the tps as this time as you want to be able to take a measurement of where its at before you move it. You may want to go back to the original setting later.
    Step4 - attach the multimeter leads to the ends of the paper clips and set it to read volts or millivolts.
    Step5 - make sure the paperclips and multimeter leads do not touch , switch on the ignition and read the printout on the meter , it should be in the 0.42 - 0.56 millivolts.
    Step6 - snap the throttle shut once more , you will see as you open the throttle the tps is sending an increasing ammount of voltage to the ecu.
    Step7 - with the tps attaching hardware slightly loose , move the tps to read 0.62-0.65 millivolts. Snug down the hardware keeping the tps in position , and re-check the readout. If ok , switch off the ignition and re-assemble everything , tank , seats etc etc and go for a ride.

    There are differences in fuel quality world wide so a little experimentation may be required to find a setting you like. All the machines I have done this with will pull 4th gear from 3k rpm without snatching or bucking , and response across the board from small throtlle openings should be smooth and even , as long as you are being reasonable and dont expect to pull 6th gear at 1500rpm the motor should be good. You may want to play with the trims a little but I have not found that necessary after this adjustment. FWIW ; I run the throttle body bypasses as Gabro suggests , 1,5 out on the front and 3/4 out on the rear , play around untill you get the smoothest , lowest rpm idle and she should be good to go.

    I found the tps adjustment particularly useful on the Factory I use for trackdays ; the throttle response coming back on the gas when you are on the edge of the tyre is now as smooth as a T with carbs , whereas before it was snatchy and unhappy which dents your confidence getting back on the gas when really leaned over with your knee on the deck !!!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    SPEED IS RELATIVE OFFICER

  5. #5
    apriliaforum expert Gabro's Avatar
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    i've edited the item 6)

    6) set the bypass brass screws (TB's left side):
    -> 51mm ad 54/57mm TB's generally needs different air bypass set-up: so try rear screw to one turn out from closed, front screw 1.5 turns out fronm fully closed for the bigger TB's, 2 turns out rear and 2.5 turns out front for the 51mm tb's.
    Anyway that's only a base point. If the bike can't idle with the screws so closed, try openup 'em more. Try to keep the motor un-balanced with the front cylinder stronger than the rear.
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  6. #6
    apriliaforum expert kzmille's Avatar
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    Gabro, why do you like the front cylinder stronger than the rear. This is opposite of my experience.

  7. #7
    apriliaforum expert Gabro's Avatar
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    i will try to tune it reversed ASAP and will report here my findings
    but the front stronger is how aprilia itself seggest, in both I and II gen service manual
    (they tryed rear stronger on the very first '04 IIGen Rsv mapping, but they went back soon, with the first map update, to the front stronger method)
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  8. #8
    apriliaforum expert kzmille's Avatar
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    I've always found the bike idles a bit smoother with the rear stronger. After the front fires the crank turns 300˚ then rear fires. It is then 420˚ till front fires again. It just seems that the rear needs a bigger hit to get through 420˚ and the front needs less to get through 300˚.

    This is all with 03 and earlier.

  9. #9
    apriliaforum expert rider14's Avatar
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    This is an interesting and useful thread.
    '03 Magnet Grey Tuono
    '10 Honda VFR 1200F

  10. #10
    apriliaforum prov-nov
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    Thanks for the great info, really helped me as I don't have an original dash, so could not use diagnostic mode.
    However, I found a small error in your write-up:

    Quote Originally Posted by FASTER ! View Post
    move the tps to read 0.62-0.65 millivolts
    That's .62 to .65 Volts, or 620 to 650 millivolts. (I know, small error and I'm nagging, but it had me puzzled at first as to why my tps was off so much )

  11. #11
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    1. questions: which are the "DIAG wires" wires?


    2. question
    hi-rpm idle (about 2500 rpm)... readings can vary, generally are leaner than the low idl
    whats difference between hi and low idle? or what is meant by low and hi idle?
    Last edited by manufact; 06-05-2014 at 12:22 PM.

  12. #12
    apriliaforum expert
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    Quote Originally Posted by manufact View Post
    1. questions: which are the "DIAG wires" wires?


    2. question


    whats difference between hi and low idle? or what is meant by low and hi idle?
    single wire bullet connections around the battery are they will be next to each other unplugged note your actual bike model for more specific location and revs also low would be 1100 rpm and high would be 1500 onwards 1300ish is about right across the v60's range
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  13. #13
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    Want to thank you for this thread. Gabro..&nbsp; Faster .. Fantastic, Great info.. Bike has never run so good . I picked up a 2001 Falco about a year and a half ago . Bike somewhat in parts, chiped and had not run in about 4 years total. I got it together about mid summer but could not get it right.&nbsp; Now .. So smooth and powerful .

    ""

  14. #14
    apriliaforum expert Gabro's Avatar
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  15. #15
    apriliaforum expert RonJon's Avatar
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    Any Aussie Aprilia owners good at this? I'm located on the Gold Coast and, trip into Brisbane a lot and would love to get my bike fine tuned now that I have an F255 and Modded Pipe on my RSV Mille.
    Ron J
    President & Founder - Aprilia Owners Club of Australia
    Gold Coast, Australia

    2001 Aprilia RSV Mille - (Red) Upgraded Ohlins Rear Shock, Sato Rearsets, Gabro F27F Chip, Modded Link Pipe, Billet Intake Stacks, Open Airbox Kit, Backdated Airboot, Adjustable Clipons, Quick Release Gas Cap, Leo Vince Can, Ohlins Dampener, and more.

    2014 Aprilia Tuono APRC - (Matte Black) Matris Rear Shock, Racetech Front Springs, Custom Valving and Shim Stack, Gilles X-Factor Rearsets, Rizoma Kit incl: Drag bar, risers, oil filler cap, & brake reservoir, CRG Arrow right mirror, matte carbon windscreen and heel plates, Akra slip-on, Race ECU & More

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