Struggle to find Neutral

[diybellydancer]

Hello All,

I'm struggling to get the bike into Neutral at the mo. It takes about 5 or 6 attempts between 1st and 2nd gear before I actually find neutral.

Gear changes aren't a problem and I've had an Oberon slave for about a year now.

Any ideas?

DBD

[petrolheaduk]

I had that when the oil was erm " end of life" - have you changed it recently along with the filter ?

[the_toe_cutter]

Thats mad i was just going to post up about this very topic.
Have the same issue, its not too bad when the clutch is bled and the chains just right.... but all the same il be fitting this
http://www.af1racing.com/store/Scrip...idproduct=3317
Part no 10 https://www.apriliayorkshire.co.uk/c...rankcases%20II
as it seems to help.

Found it here http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...d.php?t=116184
Cheers Splatrat i never knew about this.

[diybellydancer]

Found it here http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...d.php?t=116184
Cheers Splatrat i never knew about this.

Cheers Splatrat and cheers TC. I'll be giving this a go. I'll let you know how it goes.

I had that when the oil was erm " end of life" - have you changed it recently along with the filter ?

The Oil and filter were only changed at Easter when i had the oil tank off for a respray, so i don't think its that.

[Precis]

Anyone done this mod on a Capo?
Sounds very, very interesting - good find guys!

[SHowling]

I've been having issues finding first also.

I did the usual stuff, fluid change and bleeding etc to make very little difference.

My question for the hat is, i have an 01 capo, any ideas what size the jet would be installed at manufacture. I don't really want to dismantle the area to find out, just in case i do damage.

[BigSteve]

My size 13's never have any problems

[the_toe_cutter]

Searched here and there seems to be no mention of anyone with a capo doing this yet.
From reading up on this a bit it seems a 60 jet is fitted to the capo, like the early milles/falcos etc. Im open to correction on this if anyone knows otherwise.

Changing from the 60 to the 40 jet that splatrat and others have used seems to have an effect in making the gear change noticably more positive and selecting neutral seems easier. A few noticed no difference.

As of yet i cant find anyone saying a bad word re this change other than possibly messing up the brass jet by being an ape or using an ill fitting screwdriver. Messing up removing this requires engine disassembly so its a one shot deal! Im going to treat the jet to some penetrating fluid for a couple days in advance to going at it.

My only concern is the possibility of accelerated clutch/basket wear due to restricted oil flow?? i dont think its a problem tho and some of the usual savvy fellas on the other forums seem to think its not an issue (aprilia fitted these to later blocks as a means of improving shifting and clutch drag seemingly).

Tbh if neutral is difficult to select id say this may be the way forward but you should not exclude the obvious like chain tension and a correctly operating clutch and hydraulic circuit.

If anyone does this before me please bang up a tutorial and DONT bleed the clutch aswell when doing this please. We want to know if the jet has a positive effect on shifting/neutral, not on the obvious improvement that a recently flushed and bled clutch circuit will give

[NJjeff]

Wow interesting. I had no idea of this jet.

My bike is brutal to find neutral. Liike no other bike i've owned.

I've found when stopped it's nearly impossible. So I try to do a 2nd to neutral as i'm slowing, it seems to be the best way.

Does anyone know what the difference in hold size is between the 40 and 60?

[the_toe_cutter]

This is news to me too.
No exact idea on size difference but if ours is 60 and t'other is 40 it will be 33% smaller im guessing.
Weird thing NjJeff is my old mille had a fantastic box on er (oh aar), suzuki good, seriously. I cant help wondering if it had this 40 jet in it...?

[JohnG.]

My size 13's never have any problems

Yup,ditto for my size 12 mine spec boots...
...& used to Guzzis & heavy truck 'boxes
...'feel' ya way but also be definate about changing

[Capoandrew]

Guys (and gals), this was a common issue on the early KTM950A's. The jet in the KTM sits near the chain and would get grease and crap into it. Was a right bugger to get into neutral when dirty. Thus, as part of the service schedule a peice of guitar wire or something similar was used to clean out the hole.

The Advrider forum has pages upon pages of comments about this.

One guy got the specs from the Fabrizio Meoni Dakar bike and suggested 1mm oil jets. I tried this, but it caused issues with the clutch. The sweet spot on the Kato seemed to be around the 0.75mm mark. (for normal road use.)
Initially I took out the existing oil jet and drilled it out on a drill press using precision drill bits. Later on I purchased a range of jet sizes and corrected the jet sizes accordingly.

I also have an issue with finding neutral on the Caponord, but only when the bike is cold. If I let the Capo warm up properly then I never have a problem.



Personally, I would not recommend going to a smaller jet size. If they clog up with just the slightest peice of junk then the clutch can become starved of oil.

It may sound crazy, but the difference between a 0.40 and a 0.60 is enormous. I have tried oil jets ranging from 0.30mm to (as mentioned previously) 1mm in 0.05 increments. Even a change from 0.40mm to 0.50mm was a noticeable change.

Can I recommend some degree of caution if you do this?

[the_toe_cutter]

Guys (and gals), this was a common issue on the early KTM950A's. The jet in the KTM sits near the chain and would get grease and crap into it. Was a right bugger to get into neutral when dirty. Thus, as part of the service schedule a peice of guitar wire or something similar was used to clean out the hole.

The Advrider forum has pages upon pages of comments about this.

One guy got the specs from the Fabrizio Meoni Dakar bike and suggested 1mm oil jets. I tried this, but it caused issues with the clutch. The sweet spot on the Kato seemed to be around the 0.75mm mark. (for normal road use.)
Initially I took out the existing oil jet and drilled it out on a drill press using precision drill bits. Later on I purchased a range of jet sizes and corrected the jet sizes accordingly.

I also have an issue with finding neutral on the Caponord, but only when the bike is cold. If I let the Capo warm up properly then I never have a problem.



Personally, I would not recommend going to a smaller jet size. If they clog up with just the slightest peice of junk then the clutch can become starved of oil.

It may sound crazy, but the difference between a 0.40 and a 0.60 is enormous. I have tried oil jets ranging from 0.30mm to (as mentioned previously) 1mm in 0.05 increments. Even a change from 0.40mm to 0.50mm was a noticeable change.

Can I recommend some degree of caution if you do this?

Absolutely, tis why i linked it in Diybellydancers thread.
Like yourself this threw up huge warning signs to me (restricting oil never sounds like a good idea in my mind lol) but theres a couple things you may have overlooked Andrew thats making me lean towards doing it.

Chain clag/debris cant get at this jet, its effectively in our engine, its behind a bolt and is sealed. Have a look at the schematic i linked.
Dont understand why ktm would leave it open (crankcase breather maybe?)

The 40 jet were talking about is an aprilia part and itself was used in our engines at the factory as a fix for the issue the threads about. I think the link i posted eventually goes on to explain this.

There are some serious tuners and engine builders on here who seem to have ruber stamped this as a viable mod.

I have not found one person (who has fitted it) to have a bad word to say about it. A very few said it made no difference, the rest praised it and no one said its harmed anything.

Dont get me wrong im not 'championing' this mod by any means and i still cringe a bit with the thgought of restricting oil to the clutch assembly (by a third if my reckoning is correct) but it seems tried and tested thing this years now.
Like i say though im all ears if theres actual evidence of bad mojo but everythings leaning very much in the other direction.

[sickly1]

Guys (and gals), this was a common issue on the early KTM950A's. The jet in the KTM sits near the chain and would get grease and crap into it. Was a right bugger to get into neutral when dirty. Thus, as part of the service schedule a peice of guitar wire or something similar was used to clean out the hole.

The Advrider forum has pages upon pages of comments about this.

One guy got the specs from the Fabrizio Meoni Dakar bike and suggested 1mm oil jets. I tried this, but it caused issues with the clutch. The sweet spot on the Kato seemed to be around the 0.75mm mark. (for normal road use.)
Initially I took out the existing oil jet and drilled it out on a drill press using precision drill bits. Later on I purchased a range of jet sizes and corrected the jet sizes accordingly.

I also have an issue with finding neutral on the Caponord, but only when the bike is cold. If I let the Capo warm up properly then I never have a problem.



Personally, I would not recommend going to a smaller jet size. If they clog up with just the slightest peice of junk then the clutch can become starved of oil.

It may sound crazy, but the difference between a 0.40 and a 0.60 is enormous. I have tried oil jets ranging from 0.30mm to (as mentioned previously) 1mm in 0.05 increments. Even a change from 0.40mm to 0.50mm was a noticeable change.

Can I recommend some degree of caution if you do this?

I think this is an issue with the oil peopes are using, try using the oil that is suggested and see!!?

[caponord]

I have a 01 Capo, before riding I let the bike warm up for at least 10 to 15 min.
I have noticed a slite change in finding neutral from after tightening the chain, it seems to operate better after the chain starts to loosen up again.
All in all, I have no problem at all finding neutral.
Regards,
Alby