Catfish2011 Map(s) update issues for TuneECU & TuneEdit

[catfish]

Since others have discovered some issues with the new 051123_catfish2011 map. I decide to do some testing and start a thread about these updates. <http://www.endorphin-express.com/capo/maps.html>.

I tune my Caponord with the 050429 ECU software version with my map tables using the TuneBoy TuneEdit 3.9.9.8 software on my PC. The 050428 ECU software version is identical, except for requiring a purge control valve for the charcoal canister that USA (& maybe others) come with. The 050428 software with my map tables works exactly the same in my Caponord as the 050429 with the same map tables.

Previous testing of the 051123 software + maps seemed compatible with my Caponord. I have not tested this version in my Caponord in a few years. I have been replacing the oem map tables with my map tables in all three of these versions and making them available.

In the links thread ...

Catfish, I've run your 051123 catfish 2011 map.
the bike runs rough, I've set the Co to 37,5 (same as before) as I don't have a Co2 reader.
little playing with throttle , the engine stopped.
I returned to my original 011123 map, and it runned like before.....
Also tried original 051123 map, It didn't run well, took a few mile run,

This new map vs. oem map comparison sounded very strange to me, so I had to do some testing myself. I am apparently experiencing the SAME strange idle & off-idle throttle response issues you have been complaining about when I download the 051123_catfish2011.hex map. :-( The oem 051123 download does not have this problem.

I have re-built the 051123 map with my tables in TuneEdit and TuneECU, and both cause the same problem in my Capo. Oem tables are fine, except for a sizeable IFT adjustment to get the idle CO to ~3%.

It appears as if *something* in the 051123 software is NOT compatible with my tuned map tables. I do not know what this is, or why. I just know in testing all three maps (050428, 050429, & 051123) yesterday ...

1. My Caponord purrs wonderfully at idle & low throttle positions (at & near idle) with either the 050429_catfish2011 map or the 050428_catfish2011 downloaded. I just get a flashing EFI light with 050428 because I have removed my purge-control valve & canister.

2. My Caponord does NOT run very well at all (at & near idle) with the 051123_catfish OR the 051123_catfish2011 maps downloaded. However, it seems fine above 2500 rpm!

I do not understand why the modified 051123 maps don't perform the same in my Capo as the modified 050428 & 050429 maps. Until I can figure out WHY this problem exists, I'm no longer going to make modified 051123 maps available.

Those who have been trying to get my modified 051123 maps to work, I recommend you try the 050429 map, and let me know if you get a flashing EFI light and/or O2 sensor error code in TuneECU.

I tested ALL of the maps on my map page above in my Caponord yesterday, and they all worked without problems. Well, I didn't bang the rev limiter with each though.

In the links thread & talking about TuneECU ...

Hi.
Rev limit is limited to 9800 and not above....... Is it right or need to update tuneECU software?

I also discovered this "feature" of TuneECU this week. So, I had to create all of the maps in TuneEdit to get the 10000-rpm rev limit. Then download to my Capo & then read that map via TuneECU & save. The 2011-updated 428 & 429 maps in my link have 10k rev limits.

Check & let me know if you find any further issues & report back HERE in this thread. Lets leave the links thread to just links please.

In the TuneECU thread ...

Did you get back on the Dyno to do the revised map? What other changes did you do?

No. As I stated in the original dyno report, the 1000Hp-capable dyno won't "sync" with a motor at the very low torque of motorcycle engines near idle to provide a constant rpm load.

The fuel-map work was done "on the road" with a wideband O2 sensor+controller, and in the garage with my exhaust CO meter.

Optimized ignition timing (for the most power in these big v-twins) is TOO MUCH at these low RPMs & throttle settings. You get very abrupt throttle response down there when cracking the throttle open with optimized timing. So yes, timing does need to be neutered in this small area of the map to make the throttle response smoother & "friendly".

So, my "neutering" is from idle to 2000 rpm. Aprilia's was from idle to 6000 rpm.

Good luck!

Catfish ...

[schoolbusbob]

Anyone in the NC/SC area willing to upgrade my ECU for me. I run safari/Apple and its all still greek to me. Thanks BobL.

[Robert-K]

I had the same OEM map as Stanleybobly (011123) and have used your 051123_catfish map for 4 weeks with no problems. I downloaded the 051123_catfish_2011 map earlier today (before you remove them from your page) and took it for a test ride. Everything works very well, and the bike is now very nice to run at low RPM.

I have not adjusted CO yet, but the bike has the same strong idling as before, and gives no sign of going lean or rich. Behave exactly as the OEM map at idle.

[bros400pgm]

I also discovered this "feature" of TuneECU this week. So, I had to create all of the maps in TuneEdit to get the 10000-rpm rev limit. Then download to my Capo & then read that map via TuneECU & save. The 2011-updated 428 & 429 maps in my link have 10k rev limits.

Check & let me know if you find any further issues & report back HERE in this thread. Lets leave the links thread to just links please.

My bike has no lamda sensor or purge control valve, so i need the 051123 map elsewhere i will have the EFI light come on. Am i right?


ΕDIT.
Το stanleybobly and catfish.............. Are your bikes equipped with lamda sensor? (i guess yours catfish has)
Maybe that is the problem

[catfish]

THANKS Robert-K & bros400pgm for your GREAT feedback (here & pm) on the 051123 maps.

I'm going to do some more testing today with the 051123 maps.

Those of you who have gotten either of my 051123_catfish maps to work, please reply with your IFT and "Long Term Fuel Trim" values from TuneECU that are giving you good results.

When we only get poor-running feedback, it skews our perceptions of what folks are actually experiencing.

I'll report back tomorrow on how this afternoon's testing goes. Yes, I'll probably make the 051123 maps available again soon.

THANKS for the great feedback!

Catfish ...

[catfish]

Summary: The 050428 & 050429 maps have a "Long Term Fuel Trim" (LTFT) value that the 051123 maps do not. My Caponord's LTFT value is +4.2.

The 050429_catfish maps yield an exhaust CO measurement of 3% with an IFT of zero & a LTFT of +4.2 in my Caponord.

The 051123_catfish maps do not have a LTFT value and I must adjust the IFT to +25 to get my exhaust CO to 3%. This map worked fine in my Capo after this adjustment.

So, LTFT change of +4.2 is about the same as an IFT change of +25. I do not recommend making changes to the LTFT value in 050428/050429 TuneECU maps.

My 051123_catfish maps are available again at my Capo maps page.

After downloading a different map into your ECU, you really should have the exhaust CO measured to adjust the Idle Fuel Trim correctly.


Details: This afternoon was another "learning experience" for me. As I stated earlier, I have always done my tuning work in TuneBoy's TuneEdit software. In TuneEdit there is NO "Long Term Fuel Trim" (LTFT) variable to see or adjust. However, poking around in TuneECU shows a LTFT value for the 050428 & 050429 maps, but the LTFT is greyed-out (does not exist) in the 051123 maps.

I discovered in TuneECU that a long time ago, in my Capo ECU map far far away ... it had adjusted my LTFT value to +4.2. The LTFT appears to be a very course "trim" when compared to the Idle Fuel Trim (IFT). I tuned my 050429 map to use an IFT of "0" (zero) to get the idle CO I wanted. I did not realize through the years that I had a LTFT +4.2 "correction" being done in my tuning map.

Today I re-tested the 051123_catfish2011 map vs. the 050429_catfish2011 map in my Capo. Initially, with the 051123 map, I had poor idle & low-rpm throttle response. The CO meter read 1.5% while the motor was warming up still. That is TOO LEAN for a motor not up to normal temp yet. No wonder it was running rough.

After it warmed up I adjusted the Idle Fuel Trim (IFT) upwards until I finally got the measured exhaust CO to ~3%. The IFT value was now +25. The TuneECU software reports that value with a % sign, "25%".

Then my Caponord with the 051123_catfish2011 map ran wonderfully.

Apparently, a LTFT value of 4.2 in my Capo with a 050429 map is equivalent of a IFT adjustment of +25 in the 051123 map.

All of my maps are OK. Its the calibration of the map to the Capo with the IFT that must be done correctly to have a good-running Caponord at idle & low rpm.

Good Luck!

Catfish ...

[Stanleybobly]

My bike has no lamda sensor or purge control valve, so i need the 051123 map elsewhere i will have the EFI light come on. Am i right?


ΕDIT.
Το stanleybobly and catfish.............. Are your bikes equipped with lamda sensor? (i guess yours catfish has)
Maybe that is the problem

no Lamda, just a plug in the exhaust.
my Fuel trim was high (37,5), as it was before on the original 011123 map.
when I uploaded the catfisch map, my bike was warm (arrived home and plugged TuneEcu).

[Unique]

I have loaded 051123_Catfish2011 and IFT +50. It runs very well. The co is still a bit high I think around 3.6% measured with a probe in the exhaust.

[Robert-K]

Those of you who have gotten either of my 051123_catfish maps to work, please reply with your IFT and "Long Term Fuel Trim" values from TuneECU that are giving you good results.

My IFT Value are: 40,6. I haven't change it, so i'm going to check it with a CO-meter next week. But it works great as it is.

I tested the bike a bit more yesterday, and the only thing to report is a big smile on my face

[catfish]

My IFT Value are: 40,6. I haven't change it, so i'm going to check it with a CO-meter next week. But it works great as it is.

I tested the bike a bit more yesterday, and the only thing to report is a big smile on my face

Thanks for your feedback!

As I learned from bros400pgm this morning, the 051123_catfish2011 map still didn't have the 10k rev limiter. D'OH!!!

I uploaded the corrected 051123_catfish2011 map to my site this morning. All of the new 2011 maps at my web site should be correct & work well in YOUR Caponord, AFTER you set the IFT correctly.

If you decide to test these new maps, PLEASE take a moment after your testing and give me some feedback on your testing results. Good, bad, or whatever.

I would also like to hear what IFT value you are using. If you are using the 050428 or 050429 maps, please report back on the LTFT values in TuneECU also. THANKS!

Good luck!

Catfish ...

[catfish]

I have loaded 051123_Catfish2011 and IFT +50. It runs very well. The co is still a bit high I think around 3.6% measured with a probe in the exhaust.

Thanks!

Catfish ...

[catfish]

no Lamda, just a plug in the exhaust.
my Fuel trim was high (37,5), as it was before on the original 011123 map.
when I uploaded the catfisch map, my bike was warm (arrived home and plugged TuneEcu).

Within the different threads I've read, you appear to be chasing some problem other than mapping.

Once you find and fix whatever problems exist, please download the latest map, set the IFT correctly, and report back how it runs then.

Thanks, and good luck!

Catfish ...

[bros400pgm]

A small update


Today i managed to tune a RALLY RAID.

Changed setting of ltft to 4.2 as you suggested, but ift remained at the value of 70 to achieve a 2.5% CO reading.
Before, ltft was 2.6 and ift 72something and got a reading of 2.4% CO

[bros400pgm]

double post. sorry

[dotted]

I want to try your new 53xxxx map , so if my bike is running fine with your older 53xxxx map , when i put the new 2011 53xxx map , i should also bump the IFT +25 ?

Or is the +25 IFT only for bikes that where using the stock maps ?

I have read it twice , but couldn't figure it out