'07 S500 - stalling trouble

[Bob Walker]

If they performed the fuel line replacement they may have knocked loose the the spark plug wire boot. Remove the plastic cover just below the front nose of the seat (one screw) and push on the boot to be sure that it has a good seal on the plug.

[JulioB]

Also if the recall has been performed, do you know if they just installed the clamps or they also installed a new hose. The original hose will break and you will loose pressure.

This is irrelevant to humidity though.

[Mythdraug]

bob: been there done that.

julio: yes, the hose was replaced this time. the repair done pre recall only included theclamps. thank goodness that didn't get counted as my recallwork.

[JulioB]

Then I would try the "hose in your house" scenario and see if you can recreate the problem.

[Mythdraug]

Update: Pulled most of the plastic off last night in preperation for checking cables and components. One thing that I noticed though was that the bleeder coming off the airbox appears to be full of fuel (I'll confirm fuel/water when I drain it tonight).

[tomd]

I hope its condensation

[dave500UK]

Check your engine earth strap.
The centre stand drops the whole engine weight onto the mountings compared to when it's on it's wheels. A missing ground connection would cause high resistance through any small points of contact such as bearing rollers, cables etc

[Bob Walker]

One other thing to check. Under the front cover next to the horn is a mounting block with several relays and a tilt switch (turns off the fuel pump if the scooter falls over).
Several members have had intermittent shutdowns caused by degrading connections in these relays. Your electronics likes a clean power supply and will give wierd responses if the power supply is not clean. The relays cost about 12-$15 each. I and several 500ie owners had an intermittent stalling problem that turned out to be one of these relays. I now keep a spare.

[Mythdraug]

Next update...

Bleeder from the airbox appeared to be water, yellow tint appears to be the hose discoloring. Grounding straps are all tightly connected to the frame. i did locate 3 open electrical connections. One in the legshield, above the accessory off the main bundle. One in the battery compartment coming out of the fuse box. The first one i know has always been there, found it when placing my toll transponder years ago. The second i didn't recognize but don't believe to be of consequence. The third though, was on the riight side of the engine up at the topside of the engine. Black connector, red end, with a yellow band around it. Anyone know this one?

Bob, I'll check out those relays. Fortunately they are easy to get to. My wife wanted to take a ride with me tonight (not two up, she's taking her Vespa) so I spent the morning replacing all the plastic.

Other comments from removing the plastic... Found evidence of poor repair from original shop (not where I've been going recently) i knew of half of the following previosly. 3 broken attachment points (one under the instruments holding front and rear halve of the bar cover together, one wheel the rear turnsignal mounts to the side plastic, and one of the slipmounts for the coil). And the shortcut for removing the tunnel cover had been taken.

Finally, I'm proud to say that I finished with no extra pieces and only had to replace one screw. The darn screw holding the headlight fell down into the bottom of the shield after I completed reassembling it.

[Bob Walker]

On the 500ie their are two connection points in the battery compartment. One is a diognostic port for the instrument cluster and the other for the ECU.

[gnonne]

Gee, all the work you've done is impressive. Did you check the KILL switch? I left my 2007 500 ie out in some hard rain the other day and I had trouble starting it. Started the first time and died in 1 second. After that, no ignition at all. I checked the usual connections to no avail. Then I noticed that the KILL had snapped to OFF. I moved the switch back and forth 3 or 4 times. Started perfectly ever since... I guess water could get in there pretty easily in hard rain and cause the bike to think it is set to OFF instead of RUN. Maybe this switch is a sort of breaker that can be partially tripped by rain/humidity. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong, as this is so easy compared to what you've already done.

[Mythdraug]

I think the stall has been resolved.

I had recently made arrangements with Piaggio Group N.A. to have the only remaining local service shop work with the tech center to identify and resolve the cause of my stalling. I had taken this approach once before, back in the early days of the 500i.e. and they identified what later became the fuel pump recall. So I was hopeful that they would be able to guide the local shop to get this resolved finally.

In the process of scheduling, I learned that the shop had recently purchased "a $3000 computer thing to work with the MP3s". This is a good sign I thought. So I took the scooter down and dropped it off late Friday evening a couple weeks ago, had a nice chat with the owner and went on my way. Wednesday the following week, I called down to see if they had a chance to work on it. Only then did I learn that their techs were all at the CA training center for the next week and a half. At this point, I resigned myself to the fact that I wouldn't see my scooter again until after the first of the year.

Tuesday last week, I got a call from the shop saying that their tech had hooked up the diagnostic computer up and it threw codes at them all over the place. CO level was off. Idle was bouncing up and down. Talked with the tech very briefly to give him a rundown of the conditions when stalling was most likely to occur. Wednesday, I got a call that the scooter was ready, but they were closing early Friday and remaining closed until the new year. So Thursday I high-tailed it to the shop after work. Only the reps from the sales floor were around, but they pulled my bike out and let me take it home.

The ride home was perfect conditions for the stalling to occur prior to repair. 33 degrees, light drizzle, occasional snow flurries. Not once during the ride home did it act like it wanted to stall. Rode it into work today, again nearly ideal conditions for it to stall prior to repair, the only stutter I got out of it was the first time I hit the throttle to walk out of the unheated garage.

Once I have a chance to talk to the service department, I'll see what was actually done, what adjustments needed to be made and if they were all computer initiated or mechanically adjusted. I'll be sure to update this post again when I know more.

[Mythdraug]

Hey look! I found my old thread!

It does appear as though the stalling issue has been resolved. YAY!

However, I've had some battery/charging issues lately.

Over a period of a couple weeks, the starter would be less and less enthusiastic about bringing the engine to life. Eventually getting to the point where the computer would occasionally reset (act as though the battery had just been connected) when I tried to start the bike. I had it on a tender overnight for a while, while riding it daily to/from work. The tender would report that the battery was charged, but I would still get the degrading behavior. Eventually it got to the point where the computer actually rebooted on me while idling at a stoplight. I then used my tender overnight one Friday, and then put my wife's on on Saturday. Wouldn't you know despite mine saying the battery was full, hers charged it for a good while before reporting that the battery was full.

So frack, I've killed the battery by running it near dead for so long because my tender was faulty. So I replaced the battery.

Much improved. For a while. Began to notice that after a couple weeks, after sitting for a weekend, that my battery wasn't responding well again at start. Charged it, and got an enthusiastic response. Fine, I can deal with this. Just tend it every night.
Well, that was fine, until a few weeks ago I noticed that the voltage at speed was WAY down (under 12 when running at 65mph). Hit a stop light and watched it drop under 11, near to 10.5. Started up from the light and the EFI warning light came on.

Frack again. Bet it's the regulator. Shop's open, I can get there and have them take a look (even though they try to not be an Aprilia shop anymore, they've always taken good care of me). Described the symptoms to them, saying I wasn't sure if it was the battery they sold me or if the battery masked an underlying issue. The battery was tested and reported as soft, but operable. But as I had noticed the running voltage was lower than they would like to see. "It's probably the regulator," I'm told. "Go to parts and order one."

Fortunately they still have access to the Aprilia service/parts site (I had the parts PDF of my tablet just in case). Dug through the parts list and we found that the original regulator has been superceeded. And as luck would have it, they had the replacement in stock (being a Piaggio/Vespa shop). I recognize the part and knew immediately where it was located (behind the front of the leg shield, under the "hood"). The service manager asks if I'm going to replace it myself or if I'm paying their labor rates to have it done (strongly encouraging me to self-service). I say "sure, it's only two bolts to replace it, right?".

While I'm glad I did self-service, OMG! Two bolts to unmount the regulator was right. and I could reach the end of the short cable bundle to disconnect it. But the longer bundle? I couldn't find the end. I hold the new regulator in place and begin run the long bundle along the outside of the bike. Frack again! It ends under the tunnel, between the gas cap and the key. 3 hours later, the bike has been stripped of front plastice, regulator replaced, (a trip to ACE Hardware for a replacement screw and clip or two, as well as replacing the bolts for the passenger pegs with new SS replacements as the OEM were beginning to get very sticky) and fully reassembled.

Next time out, the running voltage hits 13.9. Bike feels much more responsive.

I know my battery is still soft and should be replaced again. But I'm tending it nightly to keep it from self-discharging.

[tomd]

So thee original Prob Was What computer bouncing all over place etc they made computer adjustments only??

[Mythdraug]

Yes, the original stalling in cold/damp weather was resolved by computer adjustments.

And as followup to my last statement above. The battery was definately dead again. On tender for 36 hours, disconnected and hit the key. Dash reported 10.5v. Was also having some odd instances of my alarm giving me a 4chirp when deactivating, and frequent illumination of the EFI warning on the dash.

Shop gave me a warranty replacement on the battery, I called ahead by a few hours so they had one activated and cooking for me to drop in. Spoke with the tech and he gave me some pointers on what else to look for if battery began not charging well again.

Seems to be running much better now. Last tank was up around 57ish mpg; my riding style is fairly consistent (stop-n-go commuting), so most tank-to-tank number variance is due to weather and gas.

Next trip to the shop is will be for a routine tune-up and replacement of the rear tire.