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Thread: Starting Problems Trouble Shooting

  1. #16
    apriliaforum expert deefred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowblaster View Post
    My 04 factory has just started to do the slow cranking. I am finding it frustrating, I had the death by yellow wire issue, which I striped and changed the wire and connectors. i replaced the battery also for a 14amp Motobat which fired my baby so much better than ever, but now and not on every occasion but particularly when hot I get the half crank then stops and then fires up. Battery is always showing 13.5v after a run and 14v+ returning on tick over. I replaced the starter solenoid last year after that failed. So now I am looking for a bad earth I guess.
    As a first step I would remove and clean the terminal on the starter if that has not been done. If it is really corroded you have to be careful not to let the terminal rotate as that will break the internal wire.
    2001 RST Futura in stream Silver.
    Mods: Modified Öhlins fork from mille R, EBC brake discs, HEL front brakelines, Carbon RS 250 front fender, Wiring mod for charging. Engine related:05 map, Iridium plugs, tuneboy, derestriced intake, old mille airboot, staintunes exhaust. Lambda bung hardbrazed in the "breadbox". Öhlins mille R rear shock with 110N/mm spring and the integrated hydraulic preload adjuster. LED Voltmeter installed inside the dash for monitoring charging. Duc 999 radial m/c for brake and clutch. EBC 320mm brake discs
    NWS hugger. Equipment: Famsa tankbag,
    CBR 600 -07 MOSFET R&R FH008EE providing stable 14.4 - 14.5 V (with my wiring mod). Daytona heated grips with mccoi pwm controller and automatic chain oiler

  2. #17
    apriliaforum Junkie shadowblaster's Avatar
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    Cheers, just picked up your tip, will try this on my next days off.
    I have mean time added a wire from battery earth direct to starter mount, no change
    Since owning a RSV I suffer with OCD
    2004 Factory
    V-trec short levers
    Uprated Clutch Slave
    R&G crash bungs
    K&N
    43/16 gearing
    RK Gold chain
    Map II
    Titanium Akropovic EVO's
    Pirelli diablo BSB super corsa's
    RSV4 rear brake conversion
    post 07 oil filter upgrade
    Modified air box & oil breather.
    Dynojet PC III
    Fully re mapped

    2001 R Factory Track bike
    Too many mods to list here

  3. #18
    apriliaforum Junkie shadowblaster's Avatar
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    Deefred, looks like you may have hit the nail on the head. Striped my starter motor today, very simple job, cleaned up the internals, greased the bearings, and now I seem to have a very quick turn over, sounds like a four cylinder on start. Long may it last and cheers.
    Since owning a RSV I suffer with OCD
    2004 Factory
    V-trec short levers
    Uprated Clutch Slave
    R&G crash bungs
    K&N
    43/16 gearing
    RK Gold chain
    Map II
    Titanium Akropovic EVO's
    Pirelli diablo BSB super corsa's
    RSV4 rear brake conversion
    post 07 oil filter upgrade
    Modified air box & oil breather.
    Dynojet PC III
    Fully re mapped

    2001 R Factory Track bike
    Too many mods to list here

  4. #19
    apriliaforum Junkie shadowblaster's Avatar
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    Well it did not last, so back to the drawing board, or should I say slow cranking. It is so intermittent, some days no issues, others you push the start button and nothing, others a half hearted turn then nothing. But if I take my finger off the button and push again, it might just fire straight up, sometime turning slowly others turning over very well. Battery displaying 12.9v after a run and prior to linking up to optimate.
    I have a spare old battery but that is only a 10 amp, the one fitted is rated as a 14amp, but I will change them round just to compare. Any other ideas, I have tried loose connections separate direct earth feed to starter, but nothing seems to sort it.
    Since owning a RSV I suffer with OCD
    2004 Factory
    V-trec short levers
    Uprated Clutch Slave
    R&G crash bungs
    K&N
    43/16 gearing
    RK Gold chain
    Map II
    Titanium Akropovic EVO's
    Pirelli diablo BSB super corsa's
    RSV4 rear brake conversion
    post 07 oil filter upgrade
    Modified air box & oil breather.
    Dynojet PC III
    Fully re mapped

    2001 R Factory Track bike
    Too many mods to list here

  5. #20
    apriliaforum expert DanV990's Avatar
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    Have you checked the R/R DC output voltage, the stator AC output voltage and had your battery load tested?,
    1999 (sold as a 2000 model in USA) RSV Mille Tricolor with Ohlins radial forks, 4 pad Brembo radial calipers, 16mm radial Brembo brake master, Ohlins shock with remote hydraulic preload, KTM sprag, Gen2 blue anodized forged aluminum OZ radial wheels, dual link modified 2-1 collector, Akrapovic slipon, 57mm Gen1 air box, Gen2 57mm TBs, 60mm tall Gen2 Tuono velocity stacks, Gabro A2BF EPROM, Falco clipons, long stem RS125 mirrors, 17/42 sprockets, carbon fiber front fender, rear hugger, chain guard, heel guards...

  6. #21
    apriliaforum Junkie shadowblaster's Avatar
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    Hi, Ducman, cheers for your advise, yes I have checked all the output voltages and I did have issues. I replaced the connections from the Stator, and now have between 13.5 & 14v. I have done a cheap version load test but not on the proper equipment. Yesterday I disconnected the battery, I did notice that one of the earth connections was a little suspect. Anyone who has had a Motobat will understand they have a strange connection with four posts 2x positive and 2x negative. I moved all ancillaries to separate post and left the main feed on the other. I have reconnected and time will tell. Kicks over fine at the moment. But it also did when I cleaned the starter motor, so time will tell.
    Since owning a RSV I suffer with OCD
    2004 Factory
    V-trec short levers
    Uprated Clutch Slave
    R&G crash bungs
    K&N
    43/16 gearing
    RK Gold chain
    Map II
    Titanium Akropovic EVO's
    Pirelli diablo BSB super corsa's
    RSV4 rear brake conversion
    post 07 oil filter upgrade
    Modified air box & oil breather.
    Dynojet PC III
    Fully re mapped

    2001 R Factory Track bike
    Too many mods to list here

  7. #22
    apriliaforum expert DanV990's Avatar
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    Glad to hear it is working again.

    I would keep an eye on the AC voltages coming off the three wires from the stator. You have to unplug them from the R/R to get the measurement. If the voltage between 2 of the 3 wires drops significantly below 60-70 VAC your stator has probably taken a dump.
    2004 & up RSV 1000 are pretty well known for burning up stators. Apparently the magnets on the flywheel are much stronger than on the earlier bikes. The increased magnetic flux produces more current that when combined with the standard shunt R/R which grounds excess power keeps the stator at continuous full load. All that excess power being shunted to earth creates a lot of heat and burns up stators.

    Some members have reported that switching to a series type R/R such as the compufire or the cycle electric units help prolong stator life because instead of the excess power being dead short shunted to earth the circuit opened instead, taking load off of the stator.

    Here is a huge thread on the issue
    http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...d.php?t=160360
    1999 (sold as a 2000 model in USA) RSV Mille Tricolor with Ohlins radial forks, 4 pad Brembo radial calipers, 16mm radial Brembo brake master, Ohlins shock with remote hydraulic preload, KTM sprag, Gen2 blue anodized forged aluminum OZ radial wheels, dual link modified 2-1 collector, Akrapovic slipon, 57mm Gen1 air box, Gen2 57mm TBs, 60mm tall Gen2 Tuono velocity stacks, Gabro A2BF EPROM, Falco clipons, long stem RS125 mirrors, 17/42 sprockets, carbon fiber front fender, rear hugger, chain guard, heel guards...

  8. #23
    apriliaforum Junkie shadowblaster's Avatar
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    Well went out to start her today, and again slow turn over followed by dash lights going out and momentary no turn over, and then she turns over again and fires up. I kept restarting but did not get the same slow turn or stop after. Only one direction now try the spare battery. I had been fairly happy it would not be this as the one installed is only four months old and 14amp. But running out of ideas. Cheers again Ducman, I don't think it is a charge issue as I volt tested each yellow wire recently and each returned a steady 6.5v to the R/R. Other potential issues I will check are a faulty starter solenoid, but that too was replaced after the original failed two years ago, but that was very distinctive as it just clicked. The other check will be on the starter switch itself, but again that does not make sense for this, I believe that only uses a low current to send the message to the starter solenoid. i will post my findings as soon as I change the battery.
    Last edited by shadowblaster; 04-27-2011 at 03:55 PM.
    Since owning a RSV I suffer with OCD
    2004 Factory
    V-trec short levers
    Uprated Clutch Slave
    R&G crash bungs
    K&N
    43/16 gearing
    RK Gold chain
    Map II
    Titanium Akropovic EVO's
    Pirelli diablo BSB super corsa's
    RSV4 rear brake conversion
    post 07 oil filter upgrade
    Modified air box & oil breather.
    Dynojet PC III
    Fully re mapped

    2001 R Factory Track bike
    Too many mods to list here

  9. #24
    apriliaforum expert kzmille's Avatar
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    You need to connect a volt meter to the battery during these starting attempts and watch the voltage.

  10. #25
    apriliaforum expert DanV990's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowblaster View Post
    I volt tested each yellow wire recently and each returned a steady 6.5v to the R/R.
    6.5v or 65VAC? Were the three wires from the stator still connected to the R/R? They should be unplugged from the R/R to do the test.
    1999 (sold as a 2000 model in USA) RSV Mille Tricolor with Ohlins radial forks, 4 pad Brembo radial calipers, 16mm radial Brembo brake master, Ohlins shock with remote hydraulic preload, KTM sprag, Gen2 blue anodized forged aluminum OZ radial wheels, dual link modified 2-1 collector, Akrapovic slipon, 57mm Gen1 air box, Gen2 57mm TBs, 60mm tall Gen2 Tuono velocity stacks, Gabro A2BF EPROM, Falco clipons, long stem RS125 mirrors, 17/42 sprockets, carbon fiber front fender, rear hugger, chain guard, heel guards...

  11. #26
    apriliaforum Junkie shadowblaster's Avatar
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    I read that if each wire gave a reading of 6.5v when running and R/R plugged in, then the Stator didn't have an issue. But that is not the issue otherwise it would start fine after charging. But today again slow turn over, so I reinstalled the old battery and that just was so worse, not enough to make her fire. I bridged the starter solenoid and that made no difference apart from the screw driver trying to weld itself to the terminals. So not the battery. It can now only be the live feed to the starter or starter motor, or any other ideas. Please this is now getting on my nerves.
    Since owning a RSV I suffer with OCD
    2004 Factory
    V-trec short levers
    Uprated Clutch Slave
    R&G crash bungs
    K&N
    43/16 gearing
    RK Gold chain
    Map II
    Titanium Akropovic EVO's
    Pirelli diablo BSB super corsa's
    RSV4 rear brake conversion
    post 07 oil filter upgrade
    Modified air box & oil breather.
    Dynojet PC III
    Fully re mapped

    2001 R Factory Track bike
    Too many mods to list here

  12. #27
    apriliaforum expert kzmille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowblaster View Post
    ...I bridged the starter solenoid and that made no difference apart from the screw driver trying to weld itself to the terminals. So not the battery...
    How do you know it's not the battery? Connect a volt meter to the battery and watch the voltage while cranking.

  13. #28
    apriliaforum Junkie shadowblaster's Avatar
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    KZ,your just may be right, I dismissed this firstly as the battery I removed and replaced the old original is only four months old and states 14amp, and on replacing with the original it was barely turning over but I fully charged it and then with a volt meter obtained the following. 12.89V sitting ignition off. 12.4V Ignition on, 7.8v engine cranking. I believe that is dead, engine not spinning fast enough to start.
    Second test I used a jump lead and checked the following, starter solenoid out to starter motor, no change, battery to solenoid in, no change. Solenoid has already been jumped so I know that is not the issue. Connected new battery to old, crank and bike fires straight up. So both batteries duff together give enough amps to fire up. Time to dig out my receipt and have the new one load tested. Cheers again.
    Since owning a RSV I suffer with OCD
    2004 Factory
    V-trec short levers
    Uprated Clutch Slave
    R&G crash bungs
    K&N
    43/16 gearing
    RK Gold chain
    Map II
    Titanium Akropovic EVO's
    Pirelli diablo BSB super corsa's
    RSV4 rear brake conversion
    post 07 oil filter upgrade
    Modified air box & oil breather.
    Dynojet PC III
    Fully re mapped

    2001 R Factory Track bike
    Too many mods to list here

  14. #29
    apriliaforum Junkie shadowblaster's Avatar
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    May 2009
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    UK Kent
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    Ok newer battery back in, given full charge cycle, showing 12.9v, 12.4v with ignition on, 10v cranking, now not sure, is this Ok?? Started fine.
    Since owning a RSV I suffer with OCD
    2004 Factory
    V-trec short levers
    Uprated Clutch Slave
    R&G crash bungs
    K&N
    43/16 gearing
    RK Gold chain
    Map II
    Titanium Akropovic EVO's
    Pirelli diablo BSB super corsa's
    RSV4 rear brake conversion
    post 07 oil filter upgrade
    Modified air box & oil breather.
    Dynojet PC III
    Fully re mapped

    2001 R Factory Track bike
    Too many mods to list here

  15. #30
    apriliaforum expert kzmille's Avatar
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    Jul 2003
    Location
    North Florida
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    Not sure what the absolute minimum is. My 12ah AGM holds 10.6 while cranking. Anything much lower than 10 definitely points to a problem. If I used my bike more I would install a switch so I could kill the headlights while cranking. Give it a little time and see how it holds up.

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