OK it isn't Spies it is the bike. When will Sykes finish on the box with Spies?Originally Posted by PeterM
OK it isn't Spies it is the bike. When will Sykes finish on the box with Spies?
By implication, stating that 'it's Spies, not the bike', implies that the bike isn't all that good and it's only his talent that is producing the results. But the only other rider on the same bike is a rider who doesn't have the same pedigree as him. A true comparison of the bike and rider combination is what there is a rider of similar experience and capability.
The Stoner comparison is relevant as in the last 3 years, Barros, Melandri, Capirossi and Elias have all ridden the same bike and not done a thing with it. They are all race winners, one and also contain 2 World Champions.
See, it wasn't that hard to decipher, was it?
I don't know what's up with Haga. He seems to have lost that exuberant riding style. Ok he just turned 37, but he just doesn't seem to be the same as last year. After round 2, he was wasted and brought up his fatigue and his age difference with Spies.
Present bikes:
2010 RSV4 bought new June 2012
2007 RSVR ( to be sold )
Past bikes:
1997 Yamaha YZFR 1000
1987 BMW K75
1981 Suzuki GSX1100
1978 Kawasaki Z1-R 1000
1978 Honda 400 Hawk
Actually yes it is. I never once said the R1 is not a good bike, I stated that Spies talent is the reason that he is winning. You yourself said that Spies and Sykes each have three championships in their home countries. When you stated this point I figured you were saying they are of equal ability. If it was bike alone that decides the placing of the race then Sykes and Spies should be swapping wins so far. This hasn't happened.
If it is the bike then bike should win no matter who is on it right? I know you don't believe that because you keep making the comparison with Stoner on the Ducati. Other people have tried and not had the results that Stoner has. Why is this if the bike is so good? One reason, its Stoner. He is that good.
Yes... and Ben Bostrom and Josh Hayes are on them, two of the top AMA riders. Unfortunately, AMA was purchased last season and a lot of rules have been changed--including nerfing the factories--in an attempt to make close racing. We've all been pretty worked up about it, but that's not the point. The point is: any results we see in the AMA can't be used to measure how good the R1 is since the rules are so vastly different than other superbike series.
No I didn't. Sykes has won 3 BSB races. Not championships. The highest he has finished is 4th. He has (IIRC), only 2 seasons of BSB racing behind him. In no way whatsoever does Sykes have the experience of Spies.
The comparison with Stoner is only relevant if you have people of equivalent experience. It's obvious to me, if not to you, that Sykes is not the same as Spies.
What I am arcing up against is the statement that somehow (by inference) the bike isn't all that good.
The demise of the 990cc MotoGP bikes has led to more than a few folks falling by the wayside with respect to results.
Two that quickly come to mind, are Loris and Nicky (blasphemous, yes I know)
Between 2003-2006 (990cc) Loris won 6 races, was on the box 19 times and had 8 poles. Following the switch to 800cc in 2007, 1 race win, on the box 4 times and had no poles. Nobody but Moaner has been able to get the current version of the bike on the box.
Nicky fared much worse than Loris with the 800cc displacement limit..2003-2006 (990cc), Nicky won 3 races, was on the box 20 times, and had 5 poles, AND won a championship. Following the introduction of the 800cc displacement..0 wins, 5 podiums and 1 pole. I won't get into a side by side comparison with Dani's results, for fear of being tried for treason....
The theory that the 800cc formula seems to benefit riders with past 250cc success can be argued. Only the future will be able to confirm if this is, or is not, the case with Ben. However, his wild card rides last year were indicative of his potential.
Last edited by azboy; 03-16-2009 at 05:34 PM. Reason: mi typink sucs
If I wore an eye patch I would be able to keep it on and partially cover my other eye and see that the stats tell it how it is.
PI superpole
2. SpiesYamaha WSBYamaha YZF R1 1'31.929
11. SykesYamaha WSBYamaha YZF R1 1'32.599 +0.67
I am only listing the results of race two for obvious reasons.
PI race 2
1. SpiesYamaha WSBYamaha YZF R1 34'20.457
10. SykesYamaha WSBYamaha YZF R1 34'40.518 + 20.061
Losail
Best Lap 2009 Spies Ben Yamaha 1'57.280
Super Pole Record 2009 Spies Ben Yamaha 1'57.280
Race Record 2009 Spies Ben Yamaha 1'59.041
Spies gets gets pole, sets pole record, sets race lap record.
Since you listed the results of the race I won't do it again. But since you did list the standings I will since you left out their points. Looks like spies has more than double Sykes points.
Yep its the bike.
WSBK point standings
2. Spies USA 75
6. Sykes GBR 32
Then we should all agree that Sykes should not be racing on this level since there are many more deserving riders. I agree 100% that Sykes is not the same caliber rider that Spies is, hence my point it is spies and not the bike. Haga is on a championship winning bike and has only finished 2nd to Spies when they raced it out. If Spies was not a racer of the highest level he would not be able to beat Haga.
So....
Only riders of the same caliber are allowed to race each other? Only riders who've won championships should be racing at WSB? So that would exclude more than 20 of the field.
And no one here, not one single person has said that Spies is not a racer of the highest order.
FFS go & sit in the corner for five minutes little johnny, naughty boy, naughty........
Riding Is Freedom
I took the pills. The wrong ones.FFS go & sit in the corner for five minutes little johnny, naughty boy, naughty........
lol.............
Riding Is Freedom
On the world level, yes. Riders of the same caliber makes for better racing. There are guys far more deserving of a ride in WSBK then a guy that has only won three races. I think everyone is liking the racing this year. It is (so far) much closer then it has been. Granted WSBK has been better then MotoGP for a few years but it is closer right now and exciting.
I have not said anyone has made a comment about Spies not being a high caliber racer. I do find it hard to believe that some want to give so much credit to the bike. Let me tell you, there is more than one bike on that grid that is capable of being a championship winning bike. You need a rider that is capable of extracting that from the bike. Before the season started many thought Haga was almost guaranteed the championship with the switch to Ducati.
Ouch, pimp slap!This is awesomely entertaining!
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