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Thread: Starter solenoid/relay I think... Help

  1. #1
    apriliaforum expert ThEGr33k's Avatar
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    Starter solenoid/relay I think... Help

    Well I was starting (well trying) the bike and I had to keep it turning over for a ehile before it would even fire... Andy way when I went back to start it later all I get is the relay clicking and no turning over.

    I have had a look at the relay and the side which connects to the starter is black and the rubber boot is burnt. I guess this means that the damn thing is burnt out and needs replacing?

    I have heard that Yamaha 100A relays are better than the stock Aprilia thing. Found on Ebay and wondering if this is what people recommend.

    If you dont think it is the relay then give me your idea's ill be happy to listen.

    Oh and im not brave enough to try and weld tools accross the relay solenoid and try to start the bike that way

  2. #2
    apriliaforum expert JCG's Avatar
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    Sounds more like a dead battery to me! How old is your battery? Mine gets replaced every 1.5 years.

    ....and a voltage reading is not enough to determine if your battery is bad. You might be able to charge it, but the cranking amps are the important factor.
    Chris
    Lexington Cycle Lab

  3. #3
    apriliaforum Member john_char's Avatar
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    def sounds like a dead battery, might be showing the correct volts but the amperage might be up the wazza, not enough ergatrons to kick her over.

  4. #4
    apriliaforum expert D-Rider's Avatar
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    Both the relay and/or a poor battery can be a cause of this - with the recent drop in temperatures we can expect to see more battery problems cropping up too.

    I guess that the relay replacement is a bit of a no-brainer anyway as it's a better relay by all accounts - so the easy thing is to swap that over and if you still have a problem, move your attention to the battery. Before you change that though, check all connections in the starter circuit are clean and done up properly.

    Oh BTW I did "restore" my OEM relay a year or so ago as:
    1. I needed to fix it quickly and couldn't wait for a yamaha relay to arrive
    2. I'm a cheapskate and didn't want to pay for a new one.

    Basically i realised the relay contacts were oxidised so I removed the feed from the relay to the starter motor (making sure it couldn't short on anything it shouldn't) then pressed the starter button a lot of times to bang the relay contacts together and clear the oxide. It's been fine since.
    Dunno if that's your problem though.

  5. #5
    apriliaforum expert vonDutch's Avatar
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    Changing to the yam solenoid is always a good idea, specially with the state of service the crappy thing has. It'll be definitely the last solenoid you'll ever have to buy for this bike.

    But as mentioned by the others, 99% your battery is dead. The starter consumes quite a lot of amps, so much it does leave you with a spark too little to combust anything. Lower temps is higher internal resistance, means less capacity

    Charge it to full and drop it of by a bike workshop to do a load test. Let them pull 50 amps from the battery, and I'm pretty sure the voltage will drop like a dress on prom night == dead battery.

  6. #6
    apriliaforum expert
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    Whatever you do, DO NOT keep trying to start it until you have one or both items replaced or you'll be replacing your sprag clutch too.
    Dr Duc

    '06 Ducati PS 1078 LE (Too many mods to list)
    '01 Aprilia SL 1000 (RSV Swingarm, RSV steering damper, Tigcraft 80mm exhaust)
    '04 KTM 200 EXC (for sale)
    '03 Yamaha TT-R125E (with a bunch of BBR mods)
    '98 Yamaha YZ4OOF (seized crank, needs fixin')

  7. #7
    apriliaforum expert mini_me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThEGr33k View Post
    Well I was starting (well trying) the bike and I had to keep it turning over for a ehile before it would even fire... Andy way when I went back to start it later all I get is the relay clicking and no turning over.

    I have had a look at the relay and the side which connects to the starter is black and the rubber boot is burnt. I guess this means that the damn thing is burnt out and needs replacing?

    I have heard that Yamaha 100A relays are better than the stock Aprilia thing. Found on Ebay and wondering if this is what people recommend.

    If you dont think it is the relay then give me your idea's ill be happy to listen.

    Oh and im not brave enough to try and weld tools accross the relay solenoid and try to start the bike that way
    Stop tinkering with your bike and just ride it Nick....
    My vote is for the dead battery!

  8. #8
    apriliaforum expert ThEGr33k's Avatar
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    Ive grown some balls... I bypassed the Solanoid and it turned over, nearly started but I stopped the bypass as I proved it was the solenoid.

    The battery was good. Its wet and damp hasnt been run in 4 days and it was hammering it down when I last used it... I was turning it over for about 30-40 seconds before the solenoid burnt out lol. My bad for being a muppet and keeping it going so long... Rest assured it turned over Fine with no dash reset etc. So im happy that the battery wasnt the problem and that it was the damn relay, oh and the battery is only 7 months old and is a bruiser 220A monster Will replace the relay with the Yam item and take mini-me's advice and ride the damn thing... and then change the front springs :p

  9. #9
    apriliaforum expert falcojake's Avatar
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    i changed my starter relay for a cb750 relay. i bought one from ebay brand new for 11. you will need to swap the loom plug by desoldering the cable from the aprilia relay and soldering it to honda relay.

    i changed to the honda relay years ago whwn i burned my falcos relay out. the one i bought for 11 is to change on my caponord before it lets me down. the falco relays are relays off mopeds, not so good for 1000cc vtwins.

    this is the one i bought.

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-HONDA-CB75...3286.m20.l1116

  10. #10
    apriliaforum expert JCG's Avatar
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    About a month ago my bike wouldn't start after stopping at a store. It would turn over, but no joy. Eventually, it just stopped turning all together and started clicking. I have the Yamamama relay in there. I walked home and brought my jeep back to jump it, but the bike started up on it's own. Despite the fact that it started, the battery was still bad.

    If your solenoid was bad, you probably would not have been able to get it to turn over before it started clicking.
    Just some food for thought!
    Chris
    Lexington Cycle Lab

  11. #11
    apriliaforum expert falcojake's Avatar
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    firstly the starter relays are sh!te. its not an isolated problem, many have failed sometimes closed so the bike turns over and over until either the bat goes flat or the wiring starts to melt down. in my case it just clicked but didnt turn the engine over.

    i burned mine out because i put the standard cans on for the MOT (a uk yearly road worthyness test) i flooded the bike then tried several times to resart it then the solenoid failed.

    shorting the solenoid with a big screwdriver started my bike. so GR33K may have another problem yet. but the solenoids are very poor.

  12. #12
    apriliaforum expert ThEGr33k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by falcojake View Post
    firstly the starter relays are sh!te. its not an isolated problem, many have failed sometimes closed so the bike turns over and over until either the bat goes flat or the wiring starts to melt down. in my case it just clicked but didnt turn the engine over.

    i burned mine out because i put the standard cans on for the MOT (a uk yearly road worthyness test) i flooded the bike then tried several times to resart it then the solenoid failed.

    shorting the solenoid with a big screwdriver started my bike. so GR33K may have another problem yet. but the solenoids are very poor.
    I think its the same... I think it was due to flooding that I was cranking mine for so long. I noticed smoke from the back of the bike (rubber boots melting/burning on the relay) and stopped. Then it would just click in the relay and no start... I got brave enough to short it after a few mins and the bike turned over fine. Almost started but I had no fast idle on so it died as I removed the short again.

    I have a 220A battery as I said, I guess with MUCH more Ampage available than the poor relay could take it did damage.

    So when you changed the relay jake did it make the bike turn over better? I notice sometimes if the engine stops just before TDC on a cylinder it can labour to get over it... Im thinking this might be because of the restriction that the 50A relay imposes?


    Taa

  13. #13
    apriliaforum Member L8RG8R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThEGr33k View Post

    So when you changed the relay jake did it make the bike turn over better? I notice sometimes if the engine stops just before TDC on a cylinder it can labour to get over it... Im thinking this might be because of the restriction that the 50A relay imposes?
    I'll be interested to hear responses on this too. My bike also does the same thing when it try's to start on a compression stroke. My starter solenoid burned up about 2 years ago and my dealer gave me a solenoid from a Triumph Bonneville America to put in. I have no idea what it's amperage rating is. And get this, my bike seems to only have this issue (weak cranking) after it's warm and had been ridden awhile. Cranks right up when cold after being on a Battery Tender.

    new battery..
    wiring mod done...
    getting 14.4v at the battery at idle, 14.2v at 4Krpm....
    I've not checked voltage after a long day of riding. I've got a dash mounted display coming tomorrow...
    etc....

    I'm almost starting to think is could be the starter getting hot and then going south, but then again, perhaps it's a deficient starter solenoid.

  14. #14
    apriliaforum expert JCG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L8RG8R View Post
    And get this, my bike seems to only have this issue (weak cranking) after it's warm and had been ridden awhile. Cranks right up when cold after being on a Battery Tender.
    My bike does this too!
    I think that the hard start when warm is more a result of engine temp and where the engine stops. The metal has expanded giving slightly better compression and there is no engine velocity to push the piston through the firing stroke. Remember that the cylinder has fuel in it at this point and there is pressure that is maintained while stopped. The engine actually heats up more after you stop before it starts to cool due to no cooling (air or coolant). When you let it cool, there is time for the pressure to dissipate. Similar situation with a flooded engine. The fuel isn't getting burned and expelled, building cylinder pressure resulting in a taxed starting system.

    Fact is that these motors are tough to turn over. Try cranking it by hand some time and you'll get an idea of what the starting system has to overcome.
    I am pretty sure that this is why I was able to start my bike after it had cooled during the walk home, but my problem was the battery, and not the solenoid.

    I didn't notice a difference in the speed the motor spins during start-up with the new solenoid, just more reliable. With a new battery, she starts on the first rotation.
    Chris
    Lexington Cycle Lab

  15. #15
    apriliaforum Junkie Chabby's Avatar
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    Goosed my relay just before the summer hols and used the one off my old Gpz 750 as I didn't have time to wait for a new one.
    It performed faultlessly for about three months until I swapped it for a 10 cheapie off fleabay.
    I think anything with 50a or more rating will do the job.

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