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Thread: Recurring Clutch and Rear Brake Issues

  1. #376
    apriliaforum Member BBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kzmille View Post
    There is a small hole in the side of the master cylinder bore that leads to the reservoir. I call it the supply port. When the lever is released this port must be open. When you pull the lever no pressure can build till the port is closed by the seal passing over it. So you want it as tight as possible without restricting flow to the reservoir.
    Thanks mate. Tomorrow I will need to play and make sense out this.
    Evil-Twin Rider
    + Suzuki TL1000S
    + Aprilia Tuono 1000R

  2. #377
    apriliaforum Member BBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kzmille View Post
    There is a small hole in the side of the master cylinder bore that leads to the reservoir. I call it the supply port. When the lever is released this port must be open. When you pull the lever no pressure can build till the port is closed by the seal passing over it. So you want it as tight as possible without restricting flow to the reservoir. The gravity bleed is certainly definitive if fluid flows when you open the lower bleeder. Or you can unbolt the slave and test by pushing the piston in. A few changes and tests should help you find the optimum position. I'm pretty sure this is the problem based on your last post. Check if you still have the set screw in place. You don't want this thing moving on its own.
    I went to CT Saturday and met with BigGlen, who knew a lot more about this and the entire bike. Great help, we took the lever apart and surely, the rod mechanism was a bit messed up as you guessed: the rod itself was partially bent and threads were messed up and no set screw. We tried replicating the rod position from this bike, we played with the rod a bit but I still need to find the correct position, clutch engagement still moving around as the bike gets hot.

    And talking about hot, the Garage Queen acted up again! Same day I am trying to resolve this clutch adjustment, the stator seems to have fried. Incredible!

    http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...=1#post4114923

    Now I have to put this clutch issue on the side and work on the charging system.
    Evil-Twin Rider
    + Suzuki TL1000S
    + Aprilia Tuono 1000R

  3. #378
    apriliaforum Junkie Rvee's Avatar
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    Wanted to add thanks and praise to both kzmille and this thread. I lost my rear brake on my previous 3 hour ride, it started off soft and by halfway through had completely disappeared. It very minimally worked after cool down but that was not acceptable for me. Following the techniques listed in post #6 and general knowledge sharing throughout I bled the rear, and immediately found the rear brake to return to solid functionality. I added a motion pro bleeder to this process, which includes tubing and a valve for the brake fluid to only exit and no air to return. It still required two people to operate the rhythm laid out and I saw a ton of small and large air bubbles escape out of the caliper. I turned it horizontal at one point as well which aided in ejecting more air from the system.

    I'm a rider who uses a combo of front, rear, and engine braking in turns and decel so it was unacceptable for me to "just ride" with an unusable rear brake as some are quick to jump to as a suggestion. Here's hoping it continues to maintain for some time. It is a PITA but seems to be an it is what is it is issue with the first two gen bikes, I was with a current Ducati employee recently who used to work for Aprilia pre-piaggio and this was a known bleeding function taught for the techs.

  4. #379
    apriliaforum expert Jeff U's Avatar
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    kzmille - cannot thank you enough.

    I have tried many times bleeding the rear brake but never got a good result. I started following the threads about repositioning the rear master cylinder and started looking into the necessary equipment to make a swap. Before spending the money I decided to try bleeding one more time.

    This time I fully followed kzmille's methods to the letter and this week finally got great results.

    Besides kzmille description of how to position the calipers (post #5 in this thread), I found this step was the key. (I skipped this step in previous attempts)

    Quote Originally Posted by kzmille View Post
    ...It may not be absolutely necessary but it is helpful if you unbolt the hose retainer plastic from the underside of the swing arm to free the hose. ...
    Don't skip this step.

    I loosened the hose retainer which allows the brake line to come free. I also removed my exhaust can. With the brake line free and the exhaust can out of the way I could position the caliper almost directly above the right foot peg, it reached up near the seat. I hung a couple bungy cords from my garage door opener support rails to hang the caliper and keep the brake line in a vertical position. Tygon tubing from the bleeder valve to a container to catch the fluid.

    With the brake line running nearly vertical, I started bleeding the brake while moving the caliper position around. As I moved the caliper position, I got a huge bubble of air out of the caliper.

    I now have a rear brake. It works great.

    Again, thanks kzmille

  5. #380
    apriliaforum Junkie Rvee's Avatar
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    Agreed Jeff removing the brake line guard is the only way to get enough slack to position the caliper vertical enough to let all the air come to the top.

    Unfortunately I seem to be averaging only about 350 miles between needing to perform this bleed method before the rear is completely gone again. After long rides running hot at times I notice that it degrades it faster. I have been keeping an eye out for secondary sale rear sets that may reposition the MC but it seems to be a fairly involved job requiring a custom brake line as well.

    The bleed method is tedious and fairly time consuming considering all that you need to remove and prep (for someone who gets limited time to ride and has to park their bike 25 min away from their home). Today I ran about 5 reservoirs through hoping replacing all the brake fluid might help it last longer. I'm wondering if a vacuum bleeder might be a faster method not requiring removal of so many components in between a couple major bleeds a year?

  6. #381
    apriliaforum expert SoulDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rvee View Post
    I'm wondering if a vacuum bleeder might be a faster method not requiring removal of so many components in between a couple major bleeds a year?
    Absolutely. I've seen a shop tech use an air hose attached to a bleed device that completely flushed the fluid and bled it all in about 30 seconds. Or thereabouts.

  7. #382
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    When taking the slave cylinder off. To take out any remaining air in the clutch slave. Should you have the cap at master cylinder still open?

  8. #383
    apriliaforum expert kzmille's Avatar
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    If you are pushing fluid up to the master then you need to be sure there is space for the fluid. Also if you are compressing air in the reservoir it's not going to help the process. That being said, take care that you are not splashing fluid out of the reservoir. Cover it with the loose cap or a rag.
    This is America. Use your turn signals or WE WILL KILL YOU

  9. #384
    apriliaforum Member mrk_d's Avatar
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    Just wanted to drop in and say THANK YOU for posting this excellent guide! This past weekend I replaced my clutch slave seal and bled my clutch without having ever worked on a hydraulic clutch (or motorcycle hydraulic system for that matter) before. The slave no longer leaks and my clutch generally feels much better than it did before, and hopefully the black clutch fluid doesn't return quickly since I used some silicone lube on the seal. One note for anyone as bright as I am, remember to pop the slave out of the cylinder before sucking the fluid out of the reservoir!

    Also, I purchased an "E-Z bleeder" online because I didn't want to deal with figuring out the right tubing, syringes, etc. However, I highly recommend that anyone reading this just make their own bleed kit. The hoses on the E-Z bleeder are too short, there is only one syringe, and the syringe seal itself is rather loose. I will probably wind up chucking this and making my own kit before touching my brakes.

  10. #385
    apriliaforum expert kzmille's Avatar
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    Glad it helped you out.

    A number of people have posted similar things and then describe E-Z bleeders and or vacuum bleeders and syringes, etc. I still use and advocate bleeding the clutch and rear brake with the simple methods described in the first part of this thread that require none of this. I use nothing other than the slave cylinder itself to bleed the clutch and you don't even need to open a bleeder.

    But glad you found something helpful here.
    This is America. Use your turn signals or WE WILL KILL YOU

  11. #386
    apriliaforum prov-nov ioneater's Avatar
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    I now have a useful rear brake thanks to all the excellent experience shared in this thread. Thanks everyone!

  12. #387
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    Thanks kz. One question, i want to replace the short reservoir hose on the front brake. When its fitted, do i reverse inject ftom caliper or master bleeding plug?

  13. #388
    apriliaforum expert Sal Khan's Avatar
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    Whenever I see this thread pop up in my Email notifications I have this urge to light up a cigarette, lean back in a chair and say "Yup... I remember the day when I first saw this. We were just young kids... So innocent."
    Sal Khan

    http://www.thelunchjournals.com - Updated 4/6/08

  14. #389
    apriliaforum expert kzmille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mona-toetje View Post
    Thanks kz. One question, i want to replace the short reservoir hose on the front brake. When its fitted, do i reverse inject ftom caliper or master bleeding plug?
    All you would really need to do is force a caliper piston or two in and that should do it. Depending on the particular master cylinder you may want to optimize its position to ensure any air moves easily to the reservoir. Then bleed if you are changing fluid. I rarely do anything but reverse injection with front brakes. The vertical layout makes conventional bleeding next to useless.
    This is America. Use your turn signals or WE WILL KILL YOU

  15. #390
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    Okay thanks KZ will try that

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