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Thread: My Sudden Death Experience

  1. #1
    apriliaforum prov-nov
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    My Sudden Death Experience

    So, I'm riding my new to me (3 weeks ago) Fut home from work today. At 65 mph, the engine just stopped running. Fortunately traffic was light, so I was able to safely coast across 4 lanes of freeway traffic to get to the shoulder and stop. The basic electrical system is fine, the engine turns over strongly, there is no shortage of juice. The damn thing just won't fire up, there is either no spark, or no fuel getting into the cylinders. The instruments all looked normal, the gauges did the normal power-up sweep, and there were no EFI faults indicated. I couldn't tell if the fuel pump was running becasue of all the noise along the freeway.

    Additional info: I did remember to check the killswitch, that was definitely not the problem.

    Luckily, 40 minutes and $100 later we were safely home via flatbed. As soon as we get the bike pushed into the garage, just for kicks I hit the starter and the damn thing fired right up. I was really hoping this would not happen, because I can't fix it if it aint broke. So, there is an intermittent problem with either the fueling or the sparking. Can't say if its temperature related, but that is my guess right now. Any ideas, other than just ride the thing around until it happens again, and hope I'm in a better situation to troubleshoot it when it breaks?

    Since buying the bike, I've installed the aftermarket rectifier/regulator, and soldered the crimps on the connectors. The original wiring was in good shape. I also lifted the tank, and inspected/cleaned-up the routing of the wires between the cylinders. I've put at least 150 miles on it since doing this work, so I don't think that the problems are related to anything I've done.
    Last edited by IvanJ; 11-07-2007 at 08:13 PM. Reason: Additional Info...
    2002 Futura - Flame Red, Heli-bars, De-restricted Airbox, Taylormade Racing Exhaust, Charging Mods, Geelong Carbon Fiber Tank Protector

    2007 Monster S2R1K - Red (of course), BST Carbon Fiber wheels, Ducati Performance Racing ECU, Zard Exhaust, open airbox with BMC filter, Race-tech fork internals, Penske 8987 shock, Ohlins steering damper, and many other nice bits...

    2000 Ducati 996 for track days

  2. #2
    apriliaforum expert gpc111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IvanJ View Post
    So, I'm riding my new to me (3 weeks ago) Fut home from work today. At 65 mph, the engine just stopped running. Fortunately traffic was light, so I was able to safely coast across 4 lanes of freeway traffic to get to the shoulder and stop. The basic electrical system is fine, the engine turns over strongly, there is no shortage of juice. The damn thing just won't fire up, there is either no spark, or no fuel getting into the cylinders. The instruments all looked normal, the gauges did the normal power-up sweep, and there were no EFI faults indicated. I couldn't tell if the fuel pump was running becasue of all the noise along the freeway.

    Additional info: I did remember to check the killswitch, that was definitely not the problem.

    Luckily, 40 minutes and $100 later we were safely home via flatbed. As soon as we get the bike pushed into the garage, just for kicks I hit the starter and the damn thing fired right up. I was really hoping this would not happen, because I can't fix it if it aint broke. So, there is an intermittent problem with either the fueling or the sparking. Can't say if its temperature related, but that is my guess right now. Any ideas, other than just ride the thing around until it happens again, and hope I'm in a better situation to troubleshoot it when it breaks?

    Since buying the bike, I've installed the aftermarket rectifier/regulator, and soldered the crimps on the connectors. The original wiring was in good shape. I also lifted the tank, and inspected/cleaned-up the routing of the wires between the cylinders. I've put at least 150 miles on it since doing this work, so I don't think that the problems are related to anything I've done.
    Same Problem happen to me about two weeks ago....THE PROBLEM ....SideStand...I disabled it and have no problems ever since!!!
    Good Luck

  3. #3
    apriliaforum expert The Fixer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpc111 View Post
    Same Problem happen to me about two weeks ago....THE PROBLEM ....SideStand...I disabled it and have no problems ever since!!!
    Good Luck

    That switch is a real prick, aint it? If I had a 1$ for every time...
    ďThe roadís what counts...donít worry about where itís goiní."
    - Sam Shepard
    "When I'm riding my motorcycle, I'm glad to be alive. When I stop riding my motorcycle, I'm glad to be alive."
    -Neil Peart
    __________________________________________

  4. #4
    apriliaforum prov-nov
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    That sounds too easy. Wouldn't the sidestand switch only come into play when the bike is placed into gear? I couldn't get it to re-start when it was in neutral.
    2002 Futura - Flame Red, Heli-bars, De-restricted Airbox, Taylormade Racing Exhaust, Charging Mods, Geelong Carbon Fiber Tank Protector

    2007 Monster S2R1K - Red (of course), BST Carbon Fiber wheels, Ducati Performance Racing ECU, Zard Exhaust, open airbox with BMC filter, Race-tech fork internals, Penske 8987 shock, Ohlins steering damper, and many other nice bits...

    2000 Ducati 996 for track days

  5. #5
    apriliaforum Member Wildfire's Avatar
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    Sounds very similar to the corroded connector problem I encountered a while back.. You mentioned you had already cleaned up the wiring, but it might still be worth checking the lines powering the fuel pump (and/or fuse?). My culprit was a connector on the right side of the bike near the bottom of the "V".

    Good luck!

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the tips. I've given it another look-over, but don't see anything wrong (chafing wires, etc). I work in electronics, so in general I know what to look for. Even the contacts inside of all the connectors look nice and clean (well.. the brown connector was full of oil when I fixed that up a couple weeks ago).

    I'm thinking it is fuel (pump) related. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if any of the safety cut-outs were acting up (tilt sensor, sidestand, kill switch), the starter motor would have also been disabled, which wasn't the case.

    Someone else posted a thread in which it was later determined to be a gummed up fuel filter. Sounds plausible, since this is a 2002 with only 4.7k miles on it. It might have been sitting for a while. Contrary to that, why would it start acting up now that I'm on the third tank of gas (I would have thought it would've happened right away)? I think that I'll replace the battery with a YTZ14 (I assume it still has the original, which could go at any time, but I don't think that is the problem since it cranks the engine over like a champ), install a new fuel filter, and just ride it again.
    2002 Futura - Flame Red, Heli-bars, De-restricted Airbox, Taylormade Racing Exhaust, Charging Mods, Geelong Carbon Fiber Tank Protector

    2007 Monster S2R1K - Red (of course), BST Carbon Fiber wheels, Ducati Performance Racing ECU, Zard Exhaust, open airbox with BMC filter, Race-tech fork internals, Penske 8987 shock, Ohlins steering damper, and many other nice bits...

    2000 Ducati 996 for track days

  7. #7
    apriliaforum expert Shippers's Avatar
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    Hi, I had a similar problem a few weeks ago. I took it into a dealer and they put it on the diagnostic machine and it showed up a as the ECU plugs. Apparently it was causing the bike to overheat as the fans weren't coming on. They gave them a damn good clean ran all the checks again and to date no problems.

    Mark

  8. #8
    apriliaforum expert Futura's Avatar
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    The ECU has 2 multi pin "Cinch" connectors. They are well designed and somewhat sealed, but could be degraded by corrosion. I would recommend mating and unmating them several times as a means of cleaning them. Also, a careful inspection is a good idea. Be very careful not to harm them in the process.

  9. #9
    apriliaforum prov-nov
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    Well, it happened again today. It could have been worse, we were only 30mi from home, on our way back from a 200+mi day trip. This time I am certain that the fuel pump is not running, and it seems to have given up for good. I connected a 12V battery directly to the pump, and it doesn't run. I also checked the DC resistance of the pump motor, my meter indicates an open.

    Since I need to pull the pump, I can permanently seal off that other disaster waiting to happen, the fuel line to nowhere. I recall reading that there is a special sealant that others have used to ensure that the O-ring to tank seal is good, anyone have a name or part number for the sealant?
    2002 Futura - Flame Red, Heli-bars, De-restricted Airbox, Taylormade Racing Exhaust, Charging Mods, Geelong Carbon Fiber Tank Protector

    2007 Monster S2R1K - Red (of course), BST Carbon Fiber wheels, Ducati Performance Racing ECU, Zard Exhaust, open airbox with BMC filter, Race-tech fork internals, Penske 8987 shock, Ohlins steering damper, and many other nice bits...

    2000 Ducati 996 for track days

  10. #10
    apriliaforum Member BizJetGuy's Avatar
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    Ivan,

    I had the same experience. My issue was traced to a faulty fuel pump/fuel probe harness. There is a short harness that has a connector below the tank and then goes through a potting compound into the tank itself.

    My fuel pump was intermittent and the fuel pump relay checked good. I put 12 VDC to the fuel pump through the short harness while it was still in the tank and no pump. My assumption was that the pump was bad.

    After I drained the tank and removed the fuel pump, I put 12 VDC directly to the pump and it spun like crazy. I put a meter on the harness and had about 25K Ohms of resistance on the power wire.

    Instead of ordering a $260 fuel pump, I replaced the harness for about $60. I've had about 250 trouble-free miles since then.

    Best of luck!
    2002 Aprilia Futura Infinity Blue - De-restricted, Metal Fuel QD, 05 Map, Met Z6's

  11. #11
    apriliaforum prov-nov
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    Thanks for the info! I'll hold-off on ordering a new pump until it tear it apart and see if its just the wiring. Did you have to replace the wiring bundle that is potted into the plate on the bottom of the tank, or was it all connectorized inside the tank?
    2002 Futura - Flame Red, Heli-bars, De-restricted Airbox, Taylormade Racing Exhaust, Charging Mods, Geelong Carbon Fiber Tank Protector

    2007 Monster S2R1K - Red (of course), BST Carbon Fiber wheels, Ducati Performance Racing ECU, Zard Exhaust, open airbox with BMC filter, Race-tech fork internals, Penske 8987 shock, Ohlins steering damper, and many other nice bits...

    2000 Ducati 996 for track days

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BizJetGuy View Post
    Ivan,

    I had the same experience. My issue was traced to a faulty fuel pump/fuel probe harness. There is a short harness that has a connector below the tank and then goes through a potting compound into the tank itself.

    My fuel pump was intermittent and the fuel pump relay checked good. I put 12 VDC to the fuel pump through the short harness while it was still in the tank and no pump. My assumption was that the pump was bad.

    After I drained the tank and removed the fuel pump, I put 12 VDC directly to the pump and it spun like crazy. I put a meter on the harness and had about 25K Ohms of resistance on the power wire.

    Instead of ordering a $260 fuel pump, I replaced the harness for about $60. I've had about 250 trouble-free miles since then.

    Best of luck!
    Thanks for saving me the cost of a fuel pump, I have the same problem that you described! The Blue wire (the return for the fuel pump) is intermittent on the inside of the tank, right where it comes out of the potting material. I can bend the wire and make the connection come & go.

    I'm amazed at how thin the wire is inside the tank. Does anyone know how much current the pump is supposed to draw?

    This forum rocks!
    2002 Futura - Flame Red, Heli-bars, De-restricted Airbox, Taylormade Racing Exhaust, Charging Mods, Geelong Carbon Fiber Tank Protector

    2007 Monster S2R1K - Red (of course), BST Carbon Fiber wheels, Ducati Performance Racing ECU, Zard Exhaust, open airbox with BMC filter, Race-tech fork internals, Penske 8987 shock, Ohlins steering damper, and many other nice bits...

    2000 Ducati 996 for track days

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    apriliaforum Junkie
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    Loctite 515

    515 Is anerobic.

  14. #14
    apriliaforum Member BizJetGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IvanJ View Post
    Thanks for saving me the cost of a fuel pump, I have the same problem that you described! The Blue wire (the return for the fuel pump) is intermittent on the inside of the tank, right where it comes out of the potting material. I can bend the wire and make the connection come & go.

    I'm amazed at how thin the wire is inside the tank. Does anyone know how much current the pump is supposed to draw?

    This forum rocks!
    Glad to hear you got it sorted!

    I'm in the process of digging out the potting compound in the faulty harness so I can solder the connections and have a back-up harness. If the original failed and the design didn't change on the replacement, chances are that the replacement will fail at some point.

    And yes, this forum does rock! I found my issue because someone else on the board had the same freaky failure and led me down that troubleshooting path.
    2002 Aprilia Futura Infinity Blue - De-restricted, Metal Fuel QD, 05 Map, Met Z6's

  15. #15
    apriliaforum prov-nov
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    Quote Originally Posted by BizJetGuy View Post
    Glad to hear you got it sorted!

    I'm in the process of digging out the potting compound in the faulty harness so I can solder the connections and have a back-up harness. If the original failed and the design didn't change on the replacement, chances are that the replacement will fail at some point.
    I've been thinking of doing the same, instead of buying a new harness. Seems that there is something not quite right with the way these were put together, since the failure is not an isolated instance.

    What kind of potting material would stand-up to gasoline? I thought about JB weld, but since its not flexible that might not be a good idea.
    2002 Futura - Flame Red, Heli-bars, De-restricted Airbox, Taylormade Racing Exhaust, Charging Mods, Geelong Carbon Fiber Tank Protector

    2007 Monster S2R1K - Red (of course), BST Carbon Fiber wheels, Ducati Performance Racing ECU, Zard Exhaust, open airbox with BMC filter, Race-tech fork internals, Penske 8987 shock, Ohlins steering damper, and many other nice bits...

    2000 Ducati 996 for track days

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