I have finished the first draft of my dyno-tuning report for your review. Please reply to this thread with your questions and requests for additional info. I will answer the easy ones here and include more tuning details in the next revision.
Thank you for your patience.
Catfish ...
I'll start the parade of thank-you's right away! I'll dig into this in the coming week or two and let you know how I make out. Really looking forward to it.
- Matt
Nice one Catfish! Will work through your report with great interest and probably be inspired to get the TuneBoy cable back out of the bag to have another play. Thanks!!!!
Steve
03 Aprilia Caponord / 01 Kawasaki ZX12R / 05 Honda XR200
Thanks..
Very interesting indeed - especially about the ignition maps - the limit map has caused me much confusion...and has stopped me playing with the timing.
Can I ask questions now..?
e.g. How did you measure the ignition timing? Can you detect TDC?
How come there are negative values in the maps ? - this implies timing after TDC to me. This is a feature of several Capo maps but not the Futura maps
CC
Thanks for the updated report! I received my TuneBoy software, etc. and had loaded in the updated map but started having trouble getting it to run properly. Apparently, I have a fuel pump relay or fuel pump problem that coincidentally started when I started changing maps. I hope to be able to give some feedback, if, when, I get things sorted out.
Great work Catfish and much appreciated. This is a mine of info to be worked through, must have taken you months to put together.
One immediate thought - I read somewhere that an oxygen sensor can be expected to last 30,000 - 50,000 miles, at which time crud build up and contamination starts to make itself felt and response gets slower and more erratic.
Were you able to confirm if your O2 sensor was operating normally (or otherwise) during the tests?
I'm suspecting O2 sensor degradation as a significant cause of longer term low rpm problems.
Interesting that you eventually disabled closed loop. It looks to me a pretty crude correction mechanism and anyway the cost of tuneboy is not that much more than a new sensor (£169 in the UK)
Call that a cabbage?
I revised the report to include more tuning details and help it read better. Comments & questions are welcome.
> Captain Capo,
As stated in the revised report, the ignition LIMIT map *appears* to be disabled in the Caponord ECU programs. Changing its values had NO EFFECT on the dyno or reported ignition timing. The values in that map do look QUITE BAZAAR!!!
The ignition timing & load are displayed in the Tuneboy Diagnostic, TuneEdit, and recordable in the TuneBoy datalogger software.
Negative values in the ignition map are AFTER TDC. This engine is so efficient down there that the fuel doesn't burn; it EXPLODES! To prevent detonation, the timing must be set to these values for my motor. I can drop down to 1800 RPM in 6th gear and roll on to WFO without pinging, bucking, or hesitation. Ask a Futura owner what happens when they try that. The Futura has cams with more overlap and larger throttle bodies, so they are probably not as efficient down there.
> Tokidoki
At 68,000 miles now, my Caponord ECU still thinks my oxygen sensor is working OK. It might be slowing down, but since I've disabled closed-loop mode, it doesn't matter to me. It certainly could be causing problems if in closed-loop mode. Mine always had poor throttle response in closed-loop mode, so that's why I'm suspecting their algorithm is an issue.
Closed-loop on an O2 sensor is WAY easier & cheaper for the manufacturers to achieve emissions requirements vs. dyno-tuning every motorcycle as they come off the assembly line. When a motor flows differently that the next, carbs with needles will flow less gas if there is less air flow. EFI withOUT closed-loop control will NOT, and the many sensor calibration errors can add up to BIG differences from motor to motor. That's why I state up front that my fuel maps may not work in your Caponord.
My ignition map *should* work WAY better than OEM in every Caponord. Its easy to copy & paste any individual map from tune to tune with the TuneEdit software.
The Tuneboy software is reasonably priced, but the additional dyno tuning to do what I did is a LOT more.
Good luck!
Catfish ...
Well done Catfish! Now if I could just find the cash for a tuneboy I'd be there. If and when I do, you'll get more than a $25 bump to your paypal account.
Nice turbo by the way! Shame it had to float across the pond.
Catfish/Mike,
Thanks for the answers - I haven't played much with the data logger. I'll give the ignition map a try. I have a custom fuel map, but have not messed with the ignition.
You might be interested in the Tuneboy/Edit work that is done by folks on the T595 forum. Many of them use the LC1 wideband O2 sensor and now there's an analsyis program for tuning - I've just taken a quick look having seen the manual for the first time today. Links are below - you may have to register first though.
Wideband02Analyser
T595Forum
Dave/CC
That was such an incredible motorcycle in 1983. Oh, it had its quirks. The extended warranty I bought with it replaced a head gasket once, and the alternator 3 times in 70,000 miles. The turbo, injectors, & ECU were never touched. If Honda built that bike again, I'd buy it in an instant!Originally Posted by riverrunsthruit
Catfish ...
I tried the same do-it-yourself techniques with the TuneBoy datalogger for several months before finally buying dyno time. Setting the whole AFR map to 14.7 (for testing) & using the oem O2 sensor worked well for tuning both fuel maps together at 100% throttle. But its damn near impossible to hit the other 15 TPS control points consistently without being able to see the value displayed while testing. You also have to scale the raw TPS values (0-0.78v) recorded in the datalogger to the 0-100% used in the TuneEdit maps. Then you have to teach yourself how to recognize and extract valid data points from your test data. Very time consuming & error-prone process.
It would be interesting to see if their tuning datalogger works on a Caponord. We do NOT have the same set of internal maps as the Triumphs.
Good luck with yours!
Catfish ...
Hi Catfish,
Just uploaded your latest map(the one before didn'really matched),got to put trim to +15 otherways wouldn't pick up smooth and would stall. Then i went for a ride...really impressive...did only 20 K....but its really nice!!!
I've made my donation already (gekdeneire@hotmail.com) from Belgium.
Keep up the brilliant work and keep us informed......
Greetz.......
Jan
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