Scott's Oil Filter

[angrybob]

I am curious to know if anyone has actually installed one? I have read a few threads that have turned into pissing contests (somehow) unrelated to oil filters. My interest here is not cost over time, but oil filtration during cold starts. I use Rotella 5W40 synthetic in my Futura and ride it through the winter. Morning cold starts can be in the 30's outside and a little higher in my garage.

Reading up a little bit, it seems that the paper filters may send the initial cold oil through the bypass, unfiltered. The Scotts oil filter claims that their flow is such that this will not occur.

I am looking for educated thoughts on the cold oil filtration. I have been using the AF1 paper filters w/ no problems, but if there is a tangible benefit over time due to cold starts, I may be interested. Please spare me the blanket "the manufacturer says paper" & "don't do it" responses w/o any additional info.

Thanks.

[kwoody51]

I doubt that you would own a bike long enough to realize any gains in cold start ups, if there were gains to be had.

My question though is this, if both the paper filter and scotts filter serve to filter the oil, how could the scotts claim that it's filter has better flow when the oil is cold. If something is to filter doesn't that mean that it travels through a hole of size X, in order to filter to a certain size. The oil would be the same it both cases so how does the stainless steel Scott's filter flow better at the cold temps?

I would think that the paper filter could have the potential to flow better in the cold than the Scotts due to paper having a lower coeffient of heat transfer and therefore not holding in the cold temp like the metal of the scotts filter. The Scotts filtering material would take longer to warm up and therefore flow less. Another thought would be that the metal of the Scotts could contract with the cold and once again reduce the amount of flow.

The more I type through this I don't see how the Scotts could offer better cold start up performance when the ambiant temperture is cold.

[MDRSV]

I thought a proper paper filter only sends oil through the bypass when you get lazy, it gets clogged, and never change it. but I could be wrong. Where did you read that?

[angrybob]

I thought a proper paper filter only sends oil through the bypass when you get lazy, it gets clogged, and never change it. but I could be wrong. Where did you read that?

Heh - the whole commercial

The Finest Stainless Steel Micronic Oil Filter You Can Buy
Why Scotts is the best:
Setting the Industry Standard with Technological advancements in product design
10 Years of Engineering, manufacturing and testing
Technical information and assistance available directly from the manufacturer
3 Pleat welded seam (best sealing and strongest
Passes ASTMF316 Test for 35 Microns
Certified "Bubble Point" testing on media
Passes 24 hour chemical resistance test
Custom woven media
Able to withstand 600 degrees F.
Full Flow bypass with progressive valving. No need to disassemble for cleaning.
Magnetic pre-filtering (all spin-on models)
Will Manufacture Custom Filters for Specialty and Vintage applications.
Stocking orders filled WITHOUT waiting for overseas shipments.
Sonic cleaning available from the manufacturer
Used by the most factory backed riders
Labeled "4-Stroke insurance" by MotoCross Action Magazine
Rated "9" by Dirt Rider Magazine
Given "Full Throttle" rating my Fast By Design
Applications for just about everything that rolls, floats or glides across the snow.
100% In-House design and Manufactured in the USA

Superior Filtration:
This should be the last oil filter you will ever buy! Made from laser cut, medical grade, 304 stainless steel micronic filter cloth, this filter provides 200% more filter area in many cases. Most good paper filters will pass particles in the 90 to 95 micron range, and some tested, as much as 300 microns. Sand is about 125 microns and a white blood cell approximately 25 microns. Our stainless filter catches items down to 35 microns "absolute", which is about 3 times better than most good paper or brass filters. The pleat seam is welded, able to withstand up to 600 degrees in our filter, not glued, like paper filters.

Cleanable and reusable:
Simply remove the filter, rinse in clean solvent and replace it, you're done. The filter can be cleaned with solvent, kerosene, aerosol carburetor cleaner, or any other degreasing agent, even common dish soap. You can even blow air through the filter from the inside out to remove any small particles or cleaning agent from the screen if you so desire.

Consistent flow under all conditions:
Stainless steel will stand up to the stress of heat, high pressure and physical handling much better than paper or brass. This filter maintains consistent flow under all conditions including cold start ups and or under extreme heat. A one inch square of this micron filter material will flow 1.9 gallons of 90 weight oil per minute at only 1 psi pump pressure (70 degrees F). Our typical filter size is 30 sq. in. which equals the flow of 57 gallons per minute. Standard paper filters do not flow well when the oil is cold, often causing the bypass valve to open allowing unfiltered oil to enter your engine, uhg!

Unaffected by Water, Heat and Pressure:
This filter is capable of withstanding extremely high pressure and flow rates. It is also unaffected by Water, Heat and Pressure, unlike standard paper filter material which swells in the presence of water, closing off filter pores and reducing flow.

Early Detection:
By allowing you to inspect the debris that is in the filter you can monitor your engines condition, avoiding minor and or catastrophic failures.

What is a Micron?
A micron is one thousandth of a millimeter. That's about .00003937 inches. Fine sand can be as small as 62 microns thick. Our filter will not allow any particle over 35 microns to pass through this filter, that's some pretty small stuff that's being caught.

So who uses this type of filtration?
This high tech filter technology is widely used in all types of auto racing including NASCAR, Indy type cars, Formula 1 and in the Aerospace industry where filtration is of the utmost importance.

Things to think about:
Next time you are fanning your clutch think about all that tiny debris that is created from the clutch and gears meshing together, spinning around in your motor's vital parts. If you really care about the life of your motor and consider the cost of loss of time associated with a current day 4-stroke motor, then you need one of these filters. It's even transferrable in some cases to your next bike. I used the same filter in my last three bikes, and it's still like brand new, there's simply nothing to wear out.

Environmental benefits
In addition to all the other benefits, our filter helps keep the land fills free of old used filters.

This filter is proudly made in the USA.

[venturaII]

I have one. No complaints. And it sure beats trying to find an OEM filter for my bike.

[ride200mi]

I put one in my Futura pretty much from day one. Anyone who has been around aircraft know the benefit of a steel mesh vs paper.
The main thing in start up is, your engine has some water from cool down in the oil. The water will NOT pass through the paper. And in most cases, if there is too much water, it will ruin the paper filter.
So the Scotts will allow the oil to pass through the filter. The paper lets the oil go through the by-pass hole.
The Scotts has a pretty fine mesh and the nice thing as mentioned before, is reuseable. I spray a little carb cleaner in the oppsite direction while on a paper towel to see if I get any metal from the filter and then reinstall. There has been no metal on the magnet drain plug and very little material on the filter.
There has be threads on this before but the search is working for me today.
It is a really nice product and it works great.

[LUCKY DAVE]

Paper filter elements have one BIG advantage over metal filter elements.
The paper is treated with an acid neutralizer, and it's renewed at each filter change.

There's more to filtering oil than just trapping the particulates.

The OEM engine engineers/designers know more than you (or I) do, and they specify paper elements, and not just to save money. How much does it cost to design and make piston rings? Main bearing shells? A hell of a lot more than metal filter elements.
If they (the engineers) thought metal element filters were better, they would be original equipment.

[GonzoPriller]

If they (the engineers) thought metal element filters were better, they would be original equipment.

And yet nothing could be further from the truth.

[LUCKY DAVE]

Do you think the OEM's insist on paper elements because they don't trust owners to properly clean metal ones? What about setting desmo valve gear? Should Ducati (who builds very expensive bikes, metal filter elements are within the budget) abandon desmo? Surely the owners can't deal with it? Oh, yeah, I forgot, they have a professional service the bike. Can't a professional clean a filter if he can succesfully shim desmo valve gear?
You guys who say "It worked perfectly, one time in a row" sound like the clowns hawking "miracle magnets" that cure cancer and make your dick hard, just as long as you wear them alongside the magic crystals.
Where's the scientific data to support your "home made filters are better" claim?

[GonzoPriller]

Do you think the OEM's insist on paper elements because they don't trust owners to properly clean metal ones?

uh, I dont no.
But what i am thinkin,
is engineers opinions are like assholes,
everybodys got one.

words of wisdom for ya,
engineers are wrong,
Most of the time.

[angrybob]

I'll look into this with the powertrain guys this week. I return to work tomorrow after some time off for Christmas. I'll see what they say, but stateside we only have evaluation, calibration, and emissions groups.

Let's not turn this into another pissing contest. I know there are few fellow engineering types here and engines are out of my area of work.

[angrybob]

uh, I dont no.
But what i am thinkin,
is engineers opinions are like assholes,
everybodys got one.

words of wisdom for ya,
engineers are wrong,
Most of the time.

Heh - that hurts. You know what they say, a good engineer kills more people than a bad doctor!

I would agree and disagree with the OEM filter claim. There are cost pressures for OE auto makers, and a $75 oil filter will never see the day in a not exotic (Ducati is a good point though). The necessity for changing an oil filter also brings revenue to the dealers after the sale. Not a conspiracy, but cost savings and a consumable part means more $$$.

Hey Dave - what month was your article going to be published (Popular Science?)?

[GonzoPriller]

Sorry,
Nevermind

I love my Scotts filter,
and have had no probs.

[LUCKY DAVE]

Bob, I have no idea when, or if, they will be published. I only wrote them under pressure from our (Scripps) public relations whores. My guess is that by the time they see the light of day, the science will be a new as the big bang, and so dumbed down by someone who is ignorant of the subject in the first place, they'll be unrecognizable anyway.

[LUCKY DAVE]

Priller, we engineers are funny folks. We're only interested in the scientifically collected data, not the anecdotes. We're weird that way.