Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 158

Thread: please read this before installing a PC3 or updating your ECU

  1. #31
    apriliaforum Junkie mcjongs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Norway, 90 km west of Oslo
    Posts
    386

    Question Correct A/F rathio with Tune link SW?

    Quote Originally Posted by intoit View Post
    amauri, You are an asset to every Aprilia owner. Thanks!
    This is interesting!

    Have anyone experience with this: http://www.tuneboy.com.au/Tutorials/...kTutorial.html
    And experience with what A/F figures that the rsv "like"?

    At low rpm to optain a steady idle etc. it should be 12,8?
    at mid load (20-40% trotle pos.) it should be 13.5?
    and 80-100% it should be 13-13,4?

    One thing is max power but driveability is also important.

    My former 2000/5 mille with a lot of mods had A/F in several "areas" as lean as 17:1! I had it tuned on the dyno with powercomander and tune-link sw and after it ran wery smooth with a litle "harder" feel (and one bad spot around 3200rpm/4%, at cruising?) It became a litle boring as I could not hit any torque points raising the front like before but more linear and predictable out of courves as the total power built up was allmoust without weak points..123hk on the wheel.

    I consider doing this also on my new Factory but wants to be a litle more prepared...What do you do when only one widband lambda is awailable?


    Any experience?

    Jon

  2. #32
    just another Aprilia fanatic amauri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Westminster, CA - USA
    Posts
    14,039
    What year is your Factory and what version software is loaded on the ECU?
    Never accept mediocrity, always demand competence.

    Certified Aprilia Moto Service in Southern California
    Call me at 714 892-4056 for appointment

  3. #33
    apriliaforum Junkie mcjongs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Norway, 90 km west of Oslo
    Posts
    386
    This is a 2007.
    On the ECU there is a sticker with:
    MSE 3.7 R. A3
    266536/0000
    5WP22452
    FD17 12 06 0115
    K04 H03 S04

    Is this describing the SW version? (I'm aware activating mapping 2 etc.)

    Jon
    Last edited by mcjongs; 03-09-2009 at 02:53 AM.

  4. #34
    just another Aprilia fanatic amauri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Westminster, CA - USA
    Posts
    14,039
    Your label shows ECU software 266536

    I know there are many opinions about the need for a PC3 on these bikes but unless you have major mods like piston kit or a poor design exhaust without proper backpressure, you just don't need it.

    The problem is that those who have had the PC3 installed in many cases didn't have the bike properly setup with the ECU updates and map2 setting, the PC3 was used to correct an incorrect initial setup.

    I know that many will disagree with me but how many of us have an AXONE and know how to use it for themselves?
    Most rely on what their dealers tell them and IMO that is not always reliable or sometimes misunderstood.

    Anyway, before spending money on the custom mapped PC3, make sure the ECU and TBs are properly setup.
    Never accept mediocrity, always demand competence.

    Certified Aprilia Moto Service in Southern California
    Call me at 714 892-4056 for appointment

  5. #35
    apriliaforum expert JAndrewG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Silverdale WA
    Posts
    2,159
    Quote Originally Posted by amauri View Post
    Your label shows ECU software 266536

    I know there are many opinions about the need for a PC3 on these bikes but unless you have major mods like piston kit or a poor design exhaust without proper backpressure, you just don't need it.

    The problem is that those who have had the PC3 installed in many cases didn't have the bike properly setup with the ECU updates and map2 setting, the PC3 was used to correct an incorrect initial setup.

    I know that many will disagree with me but how many of us have an AXONE and know how to use it for themselves?
    Most rely on what their dealers tell them and IMO that is not always reliable or sometimes misunderstood.

    Anyway, before spending money on the custom mapped PC3, make sure the ECU and TBs are properly setup.
    Amauri, a quick question please.

    Is the above software on his ECU the latest update? Somewhere here you posted that the software for an RSV hadn't been updated in a couple of years.

    I have an Evoluzione air box kit that I haven't yet installed, and high mount Leo Vince pipes with no baffles. My bike runs well with the pipes; just a bit lean at about 4000 rpm, so the tech at Moto International said it's probably running Map 2 (said it would run like crap on Map 1 with those pipes). I bought it used/low miles, and don't know it's history and service records.

    I thought I'd wait to do the air box till I bought a PCIII and scheduled some dyno time. Are you suggesting that this might not be necessary with my set up?

    Thank you!
    2008 RSV 1000 R, platinum/charcoal/red
    Akrapovic full system, NERA top triple clamp, Aprilia accessory rear sets, AF1 Ti bolt kit, etc. etc...


    2008 Moto Guzzi 1200 Sport, black... and stock for now

    2007 Ducati GT 1000, red
    Showa forks, Sachs shocks, Termignoni kit, lots more

  6. #36
    just another Aprilia fanatic amauri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Westminster, CA - USA
    Posts
    14,039
    Quote Originally Posted by JAndrewG View Post
    My bike runs well with the pipes; just a bit lean at about 4000 rpm, so the tech at Moto International said it's probably running Map 2 (said it would run like crap on Map 1 with those pipes). I bought it used/low miles, and don't know it's history and service records.
    This is exactly what I'm talking about "probably running map 2"

    That's not good enough, you need to make sure it is
    on map 2 before you do anything.

    I've said it many times, do not install the EVO airbox.
    It does not seal completely.
    Though some swear it improves power (I've yet to see a difference), it is not worth the risk of scoring a cylinder when you ride thru a dust storm on a windy day.

    I've worked on dozens of bikes with the EVO topless airbox and 9 out of 10 had lots of dirt/grit in the airbox when I lifted the tank.
    Never accept mediocrity, always demand competence.

    Certified Aprilia Moto Service in Southern California
    Call me at 714 892-4056 for appointment

  7. #37
    apriliaforum expert JAndrewG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Silverdale WA
    Posts
    2,159
    Quote Originally Posted by amauri View Post
    This is exactly what I'm talking about "probably running map 2"

    That's not good enough, you need to make sure it is
    on map 2 before you do anything.

    I've said it many times, do not install the EVO airbox.
    It does not seal completely.
    Though some swear it improves power (I've yet to see a difference), it is not worth the risk of scoring a cylinder when you ride thru a dust storm on a windy day.

    I've worked on dozens of bikes with the EVO topless airbox and 9 out of 10 had lots of dirt/grit in the airbox when I lifted the tank.
    I should've been more clear on this. I will make an appointment to have them plug into the bike to know which map it's set to first. I have two additional keys that I'll have programmed at the same time. Here in the Seattle area it's snowing to beat the band at the moment, so it may be a few weeks.

    Yeah, I've spent a lot of time looking over the EVO set up and the bottom of the tank, and I'm concerned about it sealing well also. AF1 says they seal well, others don't. Honestly, I picked it up for a quarter of list price, so I won't be hurt if I don't use it. I already had installed a BMC filter and used silicone grease to better seal it. I've done a good deal of reading here, and hadn't seen your recommendation against the EVO kit. Good to know; I have read enough to respect your opinion.

    Oh, almost forgot- do we know that the software the previous poster has on his ECU is the latest update? I'd like to write it down and check mine.

    Many thanks for your reply. I appreciate it a lot.
    2008 RSV 1000 R, platinum/charcoal/red
    Akrapovic full system, NERA top triple clamp, Aprilia accessory rear sets, AF1 Ti bolt kit, etc. etc...


    2008 Moto Guzzi 1200 Sport, black... and stock for now

    2007 Ducati GT 1000, red
    Showa forks, Sachs shocks, Termignoni kit, lots more

  8. #38
    just another Aprilia fanatic amauri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Westminster, CA - USA
    Posts
    14,039
    Take a look at the first post on this thread and all the maps are listed.
    For an 06-08 RSVR, ECU ver. 266536 is the original and newest version.
    Never accept mediocrity, always demand competence.

    Certified Aprilia Moto Service in Southern California
    Call me at 714 892-4056 for appointment

  9. #39
    apriliaforum expert JAndrewG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Silverdale WA
    Posts
    2,159
    Quote Originally Posted by amauri View Post
    Take a look at the first post on this thread and all the maps are listed.
    For an 06-08 RSVR, ECU ver. 266536 is the original and newest version.
    Thank you kindly. Once again, much appreciated.
    2008 RSV 1000 R, platinum/charcoal/red
    Akrapovic full system, NERA top triple clamp, Aprilia accessory rear sets, AF1 Ti bolt kit, etc. etc...


    2008 Moto Guzzi 1200 Sport, black... and stock for now

    2007 Ducati GT 1000, red
    Showa forks, Sachs shocks, Termignoni kit, lots more

  10. #40
    apriliaforum Junkie mcjongs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Norway, 90 km west of Oslo
    Posts
    386
    Ok amauri thanks for your opinion in this.

    I'm planning to run with cored pipes wich was the less expensive sollution and they might not give much back pressure unless you put in a restrictor wich I intend.
    My lesson learnt from former bike is that some gains can be acchieved sucesfully if you do it consequently and use components after a litle critical discussion with your self and regarding the airbox kit I ended up with a trunk rubber seal that sealed 100% and a customm map with the Tune Link equipment & SW the Dyno we used had.

    One should also considder the fact that the more you fix & trix with the bike the more can go wrong and some people really don't have the clue on what they do.

    My bike is brand new bought from a bankerupt estate. I was really satisfied with my former 2000/5 mille but could not resist saving like 40% on a new bike...

    The Norwegian importer went bankerupt (luckily because he has been terrible regarding spare parts & follow up on warranty etc.) Now a new importer is in place, professional with a very good renomè, same as Honda so the future is good!

    I'm actually educated for many years ago (84) with a engineering degree in combustion engines & aero strucures and I find it hard to just run stock with closed loop Lambda.

    Is it so that the ecu uses the closed loop up to let's say 6k/80% TP and because of danger of having to lean combustion excludes the lambda above? There was someone that talked about huge variations in A/F ratio stock??

    "Sensor output ranges from 0.2 Volts (lean) to 0.8 Volts (rich). A perfectly balanced or "stoichiometric" fuel mixture of 14.7 parts of air to 1 part of fuel gives an average reading of around 0.45 Volts." but we all know that this is not good at big twins, we need more fuel to have a drivable bike with good gas responce.

    Has anyone tried to manipulate the voltage with an amplifier (adjustable) to richen the fuel mixture a litle, to get rid of iratic idle and a litle more power below 6K if my asumtions are correct? and possibly les heat building up during necesarry city driving?

    Jon

  11. #41
    apriliaforum expert JAndrewG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Silverdale WA
    Posts
    2,159
    Quote Originally Posted by mcjongs View Post
    Has anyone tried to manipulate the voltage with an amplifier (adjustable) to richen the fuel mixture a litle, to get rid of iratic idle and a litle more power below 6K if my asumtions are correct? and possibly les heat building up during necesarry city driving?

    Jon
    Jon,

    I don't know if anyone here has done so, but a forum member on this Ducati site has, and it seems to be very successful in 'tricking' the ECU into thinking the mixture needs to be a bit richer. It's become a long thread, with many posters reporting good results on motors that were not radically modified. Seems the ECU can only adjust the A/F mixture to a certain point. His devise reduces voltage, not amplifies it.

    It's worth noting that a well respected dealer in Seattle, Ducati Seattle, has become a dealer for this fellow's product. I was talking to a tech from there the other day, and they have had great results with it as well.

    You might find his comments and solution interesting-

    http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthre...ht=manipulator

    Hope this might help.
    2008 RSV 1000 R, platinum/charcoal/red
    Akrapovic full system, NERA top triple clamp, Aprilia accessory rear sets, AF1 Ti bolt kit, etc. etc...


    2008 Moto Guzzi 1200 Sport, black... and stock for now

    2007 Ducati GT 1000, red
    Showa forks, Sachs shocks, Termignoni kit, lots more

  12. #42
    apriliaforum Junkie mcjongs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Norway, 90 km west of Oslo
    Posts
    386
    Hello JAndrewG

    Thanks for your interesting replay!

    You are right offcourse that you need to reduce voltage. I was thinking oposite.

    I have reed trough most of the treds on the Ducati forum and this could really be something to be able to continue with closed loop and map 1. But, I believe this must be tested & documented on a dyno with a wide band sensor.

    Anyone knows if they uses the same type of Lambda sensor? On our bikes it is narrow band with pre-heating? at least it is 4 wires. Will the Ducati type coonectors fit or must the wires be cut etc?

    I will for sure test the bike with mapping 2 and see how it works first. this is the safest way wrt. damage...

    I wish I had known more about std. values on mapping 1 and 2 and Aprilias/Rotax aim for the A/F on the engine. Maybe amauri that you know something?

    Jon
    Last edited by mcjongs; 03-09-2009 at 02:54 AM.

  13. #43
    apriliaforum expert JAndrewG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Silverdale WA
    Posts
    2,159
    Quote Originally Posted by mcjongs View Post
    Anyone knows if they uses the same type of Lambda sensor? On our bikes it is narrow band with pre-heating? at least it is 4 wires. Will the Ducati type coonectors fit or must the wires be cut etc?
    I don't know if the Ducati and Aprilia sensors are the same. I bought one of his 'prototype' manipulators and never used it. I didn't really need it, as the Termi exhaust kit for my Duc came with a Ducati Performance ECU that doesn't utilize the sensor- it runs in 'open' loop. I bought it just to play around, and never made the time to reinstall the stock ECU to do so.

    I've been meaning to take the covers off the Aprilia and find the lambda wires to check it out.
    2008 RSV 1000 R, platinum/charcoal/red
    Akrapovic full system, NERA top triple clamp, Aprilia accessory rear sets, AF1 Ti bolt kit, etc. etc...


    2008 Moto Guzzi 1200 Sport, black... and stock for now

    2007 Ducati GT 1000, red
    Showa forks, Sachs shocks, Termignoni kit, lots more

  14. #44
    apriliaforum expert Stuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Jersey, UK.
    Posts
    641
    Quote Originally Posted by amauri View Post
    Your label shows ECU software 266536

    I know there are many opinions about the need for a PC3 on these bikes but unless you have major mods like piston kit or a poor design exhaust without proper backpressure, you just don't need it.

    The problem is that those who have had the PC3 installed in many cases didn't have the bike properly setup with the ECU updates and map2 setting, the PC3 was used to correct an incorrect initial setup.

    I know that many will disagree with me but how many of us have an AXONE and know how to use it for themselves?
    Most rely on what their dealers tell them and IMO that is not always reliable or sometimes misunderstood.

    Anyway, before spending money on the custom mapped PC3, make sure the ECU and TBs are properly setup.
    So whats the situation with the latest RSV,s? I mean 07.5 to final production?

    I have one of these and was about to get a PCIII isntalled and have the bike spend anwhere between 3 hours and a full day on a dyno for a custom map (with and without baffles). I've only got Leo Vince slip ons fitted but my dealer said the throttle bodies were factory set so they didnt balalnce them after applying MAP-2.

    I just want to optimise the power of the bike with my setup, i.e. get the most from the ECU, TB's and exhausts. I am guessing the thing that makes my bike 'unique' are the TB's which seem to vary from each bike.

  15. #45
    apriliaforum Junkie mcjongs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Norway, 90 km west of Oslo
    Posts
    386
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuso View Post
    So whats the situation with the latest RSV,s? I mean 07.5 to final production?

    I have one of these and was about to get a PCIII installed and have the bike spend anywhere between 3 hours and a full day on a dyno for a custom map (with and without baffles). I've only got Leo Vince slip ons fitted but my dealer said the throttle bodies were factory set so they didn't balance them after applying MAP-2.

    I just want to optimise the power of the bike with my setup, i.e. get the most from the ECU, TB's and exhausts. I am guessing the thing that makes my bike 'unique' are the TB's which seem to vary from each bike.
    stuso,
    I don't think the TB's differ that much. The original mapping has margins that lets the engine run smooth and with map 2 activated you just need to do a little check on synchronization on the TB's.

    amauri, I have been thinking of your answers to some threads in the forum lately and you might be right when you say that the original setting is good enough for road use. Aprilia have been very clever during development and tuning, many tests with very good results proves that! What happens when you core the pipes, put on extra air box stuff and change to 15/42 gearing and a not so good mapped PCIII?

    You can actually get a bike that have lost some of the good factory tuning and are not so good and predictable during acceleration out of turns..

    I shall be careful with my expressions maybe because I have not had the opportunity to test my new bike with, yes, cored pipes, 15/42 sprockets and the Motty AFR tuner... (self mapping device)

    Maybe I end up with original Akrapivic and map-2 as the maximum change?

    But, I must say my former 2000/5 mille became a much more responsive and better performer with home made airbox kit (thrunk seal), full evolution akra, PCII tuned with Dynojet's "Tuning Link" program and 16/44 gearing.

    I would at least recommend that you have it dynoed with someone using the Dynojet's tuning link SW (the sw logs and suggest new mappings automatically so the operator do not need to use so much time to get it somewhere like 98% perfect) unless the dyno operator take the job really serious and know how to built up a new map...

    mcjongs

Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •