Suspension settings

[GreyTuono]

I was wondering if anyone has come up with a formula for suspension settings on the Tuono? (besides replacing them with Ohlins) It seems that the folks at Aprilia think that Americans like having their bones jarred with too much compression:) I'm a 185 lb rider if that helps.

[DeTuono]

Hi, I ended up with the rebound settings on maximum and the compression on minimum. Preload left standard at both ends. "Maximum" and "Minimum" as given in the tables in the owners manual.

I still found this too bouncy, so I took the bike in today for Gold valves in the forks and a shock rebuild. I'll post on how it comes out. Probably be the weekend before I get the chance to ride it in anger :D

Nick

[kirkmoon]

I weigh 195 and couldn't get the suspension set up the way I wanted just by adjusting things.

I found the stock suspension too stiff for street use. I backed off all the way on the compression damping but found that it was still too stiff on hard, high speed hits. I tried to back off a bit on the preload too, and this took the edge off of the medium and slow hits, but didn't elminate the problem, and it had the undesirable effect of making the bike wallow around a bit when thrashed.

So I bit the bullet and put Ohlins internals on the front and a new Ohlins on the back. It is still a bit harsh, but much better, and very precise. I am pretty satisfied, but it seems a shame that it is necessary to do this.

You could try using Race Tech for a bit less money. I have no idea if it would be better, equal, or worse than the Ohlins.

Kirk

[GreyTuono]

Kirk,
Where can I send my forks out to get the Ohlins internals put in?

[Jony2Stones]

who can do this? Scuderia West in San Francisco. If you ship them your forks they will rebuild them (parts and labor) for $499.


Clarkie49- originally posted the answer to that.

[thunderex]

yep, they do that there. i haven't had mine done as i have ohlins on there already, but i hear it's a good difference.

[GreyTuono]

$499 sounds like a real good price. Sounds like this will make an excellent winter project for me. Thanks

[525]

I’m 200 pounds and I thought my new Tuono was unbearably stiff. I took it to the pros at Evoluzione (more about these wonderful folks on another post later). I told them I wanted a more street friendly ride but with the capability of doing a “spirited” canyon ride with confidence.

These were the settings when I got it back:

Fork position in the triple clamps – on the third line (2 lines showing)
Front Preload – On the 7th line out (6 lines showing)
Front Compression Dampening – 2 ¼ turns out (that’s all the way out!)
Front Rebound Dampening – 1 ½ turns out
Rear Preload – 22 mm (threads showing)
Rear Compression Dampening – 18 clicks out
Rear Rebound Dampening – 18 clicks out

I know these settings sound goofy, but I have to tell you it made an uncivilized ride very civilized and I love it. This last Sunday I did a quick 70 mile ride through the Angeles Crest Highway (twisty mountain road) and I can tell you that it’s not too soft or mushy in the least. Very planted, very comfortable. The California freeway compression joints are no longer blurring my vision or shaking my fillings loose either.

Don’t believe it? Well it won’t cost you a dime to find out. You can always set it back to where it was or/and then spend $500.

No doubt the Ohlins internals is a great option if you have $500 to drop on it (plus shipping the forks to someone that knows what they are doing). But just think, you might have a solution (even if temporary) here that will cost you nothing. One day I will probably go with the Ohlins, but for now this is just fine. If you are not intending to make this a track bike for competition purposes, the settings above are the best cost/benefit (at least for me).

For the Ohlins internals, I think Clarkie mentioned Scuderia (spelling?) in the San Francisco area. I know Evoluzione will do it as well. If you go the Ohlins route it is important to get someone who knows their stuff. The real hot shots can dial things in pretty good just knowing your riding weight. In the best of all worlds you should be on hand to sit on the bike when they set the suspension. They can probably do a fair job just knowing your weight but being there to confirm sag, etc., is best. Remember too that you will need to get the rear sorted (sag, etc.) to complement the work on the front.

Good luck.

Michael

[GreyTuono]

525,
Thanks, I'll be experimenting using those settings and seeing if I like my ride before sinking any money into the Ohlins stuff. I'll be sure to report on how it works for me.

Dale

[pastajet]

What are the steps to change the "Fork position in the triple clamps"?

[thunderex]

you'll need a front stand that lifts from the steering stem.

[Manu]

Originally posted by kirkmoon
I tried to back off a bit on the preload too, and this took the edge off of the medium and slow hits, but didn't elminate the problem
No wonder...This is absolutly normal... It's a common misbelief among bikers to think that playing with the so called "preload adjuster " will soften or harden the spring. Actually the preload adjuster doesn't affect spring preload at all. Strange but true ... Preload adjuster only affect sag ie the ratio between positive and negative suspension travel, so IMO they 'd rather be called sag adjuster instead. I'm gonna try to show you why, eventhough it's not an easy job for a French speaking boy like yours truly....;)

Some of you might remenber that a spring behaviour is ruled by the following equation: F = R x T
F = Force applied to or by the spring (good old action/reaction principle)
R = Spring rate
T = Spring end travel or compression
This basically means the force needed to compress a spring increases along with the spring compression. It also means that the lenght of the spring is in inverse proportion of the applied force.

Now let's imagine the following (purely didactical) system: A spring stuck between two solid walls. Let's add a jack (let's call it preload adjuster) between one spring end and one of the walls. Let's start screwing up the jack. What happens ? As soon as the jack expends the spring gets compressed and thus shorter. So according to the above: more travel (or compression) means more force applied to the spring and we can say the spring is now more preloaded. Fine....

So why can't it work the same on a bike ? Simply because when fitted to a bike suspension system, a spring cannot be considered as stuck between solid walls anymore. The lower spring end could be. That one is in contact with the non-suspended part of the bike, the wheel and finally the ground. But OTOH the upper end of the spring is linked to the suspended part of the bike, which everyone will agree on saying that it cannot be considered as a solid part, but more likely as a "free" moving unit. No travel would mean no suspension at all ... right ?

So we now basically have a spring stuck between a solid point (the ground) and a free moving point (the suspended part of the bike, free to move up and down). What happens as soon as I try to crank up more preload on the spring ?

Since the upper part of the adjuster is not linked to any solid point, as soon as it tries to compress the spring, good old action/reaction principle shims in and instead of putting more preload on the spring, the adjuster actually lift up the suspended part of the bike. The spring lenght stays the same and so stays the preload.

That's it . To actually put more preload on such a system, the only way is to add more mass to bike.... like sitting on it :D


BTW 525 very usefull post. Did you have any chance to check your sag since those news settings. I'm interrested to hear about it.

[525]

Manu,

I did not personally check the sag measurement afterward. The technician at Evoluzione did all that as part of the suspension set up, and I trust him without question.

While I was unable to be on hand to sit on the bike for that procedure, someone who is within a few pounds of my own weight (the owner Ken) did so in my place.

I hope this answers your question.

Michael

[525]

Just a thought on adjusting the fork position in the triple clamps.

Given that there is some play (due to the telescopic action of the forks), would it not be possible to carefully loosen, adjust (in small increments) and then tighten one side at a time?

M

[kirkmoon]

One more comment.

I replaced my front fork internals before I replaced the rear, and it felt as though the front was still quite harsh. I was somewhat disappointed.

After I replaced the rear, and without changing the front settings, all became good. I even went back up on the preload up front with no increase in harshness.

It seems to me that it is very difficult to separate the effects of the front suspension from the rear. They work together and affect one another in a complex way.

I had my work done at Scuderia West in San Francisco. They are very good.

Kirk

[KDub]

525 What are your feelings of possibly dropping the front to....

Fork position in the triple clamps – on the fourth line (3 lines showing)

Is anyone riding with this front position setting?

[DeTuono]

...through the clamps can be done without a stand that lifts from the triple clamp (although that is the best way to go).

I think the "one side at a time" method works, although I'm not sure what you'd do if you went a centimeter too far! :p

The method I have used is to suspend the front of the bike from the roof beams of my shed/garage, using tie down straps. These can be looped around the frame or anywhere sufficiently strong, and is a safer and more flexible option.

Have fun!

Nick

[525]

KDub,

I'm pretty sure, in addition to weighting the bike more to the front, it will quicken the steering a bit. Is it needed? Good? Bad? I don't know. Try it and find out. I seem to recall one of the moto magazines recommended that setting.

Personally. all it would serve to do is compress my plums into the tank more than they already are.

Truth is, you are asking the wrong guy. I relied on pros to get mine set up.


M

[Pimmie]

This is my 'fear' as well, not enough weight over the front after they dumped all that stuff from the front like fairings and so on.
I'm going to experiment with dropping the forks as well and maybe try different positions on the seat while cornering. i.e lean forward more...

[Manu]

Originally posted by kirkmoon
After I replaced the rear, and without changing the front settings, all became good. I even went back up on the preload up front with no increase in harshness.

Kirkmoon, obiously you didn't read my previous post ;)
Preload adjuster can't affect spring harshness.

I too think most of the Tuono suspension harshness comes from the rear shock.

For those who wants to experiment a bit with the Tuono front end geometry I suggest the following: Before sliding the fork tubes in the triples, first back off the preload adjuster with the equivalent lenght you'd like to drop the fork tube. 3 more mm showing at the preload adjuster will actually drop the front with exact same value. This is much more easier to do and quickly reversible. Once you've found the correct front height, check the sag, if (as an example) you got 5 mm too much sag, add some 5 mm more preload and slide the fork tube 5 mm to compensate.

I personnaly found out the Tuono front end to be very responsive to any ride height modification. Those wide bars acts like amplifiers and make a 1/2 turn more or less preload noticeable.

Tuono is an easy bike to ride fast :) , but pushing it real fast is another job that requires very accurate geometry settings

[Pimmie]

What are the suspension settings for the R? I know it uses completely different suspension (and tires) but can it be worth a try to use those settings?
I've seen pictures of that thing cornering like a race-bike, completely on one ear so to speak...

[KDub]

Front ride height is now on the 4th line (3 lines showing) and it feels just fine. The back came from the dealer lowered almost all the way and now the whole bike feels just right where it seemed too squat in the back when the rest of the suspension was setup right. No instability at all. It just feels good and no banging the boys against the tank.

It's probably got some to do with the fact that it's the same Mille spring load but lighter on the front minus the bodywork. I can't be totally sure about that but that's what it felt like.

I came from a SV650s as my reentry ride after several years away from a streetbike. It's probably no surprise but even with lots of suspension work done to that bike to get it right this bike feels uterly fantastic in camparison. The extra weight turns out to be a big plus. Maneuverability or "flickability" is not an issue.

Now I just have to get used to the power explosion over 6k. It's like someone kicked off a second stage booster :).

Thanks for the tips.