Stock Front Brake Rotors made Perfect for $0.00

[Griz]

I'd been cleaning, shaking, and freeing the front brake rotors from their carriers regularly on my '02 Mille for too long, just to have the rotor buttons tighten back up and my brakes start pulsing within a week or less of riding.

Enough was enough, but I wasn't about to spend $500+ on new rotors. I pulled my front wheel, removed the front rotors, and solved the problem in less than 30 minutes without spending a dime.

Since the fix, after 1,500+ miles, I've never felt a single brake pulse, nor have the rotor buttons/rivets even begun to seize up again.

In a nutshell, you'll turn "semi-floating" rotors into full floaters, without replacing the rivets.

Below is a picture of a Mille's brake rivet beforehand. The fringed-edge spring washer is the cause of the problem.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/488914/rotor2.jpg

Notice the snugness of the fringed washer's edges to the rotor and carrier. A combination of the tight fit, oxidation from the different metals touching, and pocket created under the convex washer (trapping dirt/brake dust/etc.) are preventing the rotor from even "semi"-floating on it's carrier, resulting in brake pulse and eventually, if unchecked, rotor warpage.

Here's my tactic:

I sharpened the tip of a flat tip screwdriver, and used it to flatten the "fringed" spring washers found on the inside of the rotors' "semi-floating" rivets/buttons.

The key is just to flatten the convex fringed spring washers, without bending the fringes upward (ie: don't make them concave) . The edges of the washers shouldn't be more than 1mm off the surface of the rotor when you're done. Here's a picture of after:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/488914/IMG_4677.JPG

It's easiest to get underneath the edge of one of the spring washer's fringed edges by starting in the gap between the rotor and carrier. Once the screwdriver tip (or other equivalent sharp, narrow tipped chisel) is slid under the fringe, only lift it slightly to bend the fringe just barely away from the rotor.

Instead of having to work the sharp tip under each fringe of the washers, slide the tip sideways from one fringe to the next, like so:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/488914/IMG_4679.JPG

After the above procedure, the rivets should all be loose, and the flattened spring washers should spin on the rivet with only a light push with your finger. Grasp the assembly by the carrier, shake it, and the rotor should rattle a bit.

I sprayed the rotor rivets with brake cleaner when I was done, and the pressure of the spray can's stream was actually enough to spin the spring washers on the rivets!

The only even slightly negative result of this mod is the increased noise. With normal or even heavy braking, the difference in braking volume isn't noticeable, but ride over a pothole at low speed (without the brake on), and you'll hear the rotors jingle a bit. The tradeoff is well worth it.

[Reggie Perrin]

good post.......!!!!!

I've got that pulsing on my brakes and have been hunting for new rotors....

I'll give this mod a try - nothing to lose really...!!!!


Any negative views out there...!?!?!?

Reggie

[Scotteq]

I see no reason why it shouldn't work - Certainly if the rotor isn't badly damaged..

Scott :cool:

[Oggrsv]

You could try cleaning the buttons first - if you still get the shakes/pulsing - check if the run-out is within spec. You'll need a a dial gauge. I think the spec is 0.1 to 0.3 mm. I've resurrected a pair of rotors with a good clean - but now they need doing again

A good place to get Brembo stuff in the UK is Motomecca in Dorset. Rotors and calipers are fairly cheap (e.g. pair of 4 pad calipers for £290 inc pads and VAT) I think they'll sell you a "proper" set of floating discs too.


Dave

[Kid Thunder]

I tried a different approch. When I cleaned the buttons the brake cleaner made everything really dry & they quickly froze again. After I cleaned them I put a drop of teflon based lube on each button(stuff called Triflo). Be careful not to get much on the rotors. I got a little on them but it cleaned right up easliy. The stuff does not attract brake & has kept them free for over 3000 miles.

[outofcontrol]

I would really hesitate on putting any sort of lubrication on my rotors. The centrifugal force would bleed that tri-flow right onto the rotor. It might be marginal, but I'm pretty dependent on my front brakes. while I'm at it; Don't put armor-all cleaner on your tires either. --or on your seat - I did that once when I was a teen. '81 yam maxim 650. slid all over that thing.
-#94

-I don't know, maybe just a 1/16 of a drop would work. And for the street, sure.

[ericf1ss]

One of the old Ducati list tricks for this was to take the rotor off the wheel and take a small block of wood under the button you are working on and another one on top. Then give the top piece of wood a sharp hit with a hammer, do that all the way around and bang, you've got full floating rotors. This way seems to me to be a better way to accomplish the same thing, much less barbaric.

[Kid Thunder]

outofcontrol,
I had no problem with Tri-flo. I just used a VERY small amount. Brakes work great!
Heard about that trick with the wood blocks. Very easy to do.

[Louge]

> Don't put armor-all cleaner on your tires either. ooc

About ten years back the BMW brass were doing multi day testing of a new model. Overnight the hotel staff 'cleaned' the bikes including Armoralling the enTIRE front and back tires :eek:

We'll leave it to say that a few of those brand new BMW riding suits got some real world abrasion testing the following day :D


I periodically grab my rotors at 3 and 9 o'clock and push-pull them to their button stops, move to 12 and 6 o'clock and repeat. So far, no problems ...

Good post Griz ... someone else noted that 97% of reported warped rotors were in fact true. Brake button performance was far and away the number one issue.

[Hatchman]

Nice tip. I'll give it a try.

[angrybob]

I went the other route and replaced my buttons with the billet ones. Kind of a pain in the ass and a necessity due to another long story. One thing that the billet buttons do though is save about a full pound off the front wheel (the claim is 1.5 pounds). I used the 'hand' scale and there is a big difference.

In the end, probably not wirth it to most, but I like the finished product.

Great post.

[ccrsvo]

I decided to give this a try. After my last ride there was so much pulsing, I thought I was braking over railroad tracks. I first tried cleaning, but still no movement. Figured what the heck. Now the rotors sound like my friends Ferrodo Axis rotors. I haven't taken the bike for a ride, but I'll let you know. Thanks for the tips.

[Mille-R]

Hi

I had the same trouble with my front brake, so I decided to try this and it works greate, I have only bend 4 flaps on each spring and that was enought for me. Now the brakes is as new:rambo: :banana: :p:

[ericf1ss]

AngryBob,
Got any pics of those buttons? Did you get teh STM's? Where'd you get 'em?
Thanks.

[Reggie Perrin]

Guys...

Guess my discs are beyond saving by this trick...
Tried at the weekend, easy to do, just placed the button between two spaced pieces of wood and 3 clouts with the hammer is enough to invert the little spring washers...

discs are now free to move and make a good rattle when shaken, fitted them back to the wheel and took the opportunity to fit new pads as well..

Went off for a spin with fingers crossed but sadly no improvement :( still have horrible pulsing and violent shake when braking from high speeds....


need some new discs...... Anyone....????

Cheers
Reggie

[irdave]

I bent mine, too. Rattles like crazy (good thing) and feels great.

[02moab]

mine are pulsing also. keeps coming back.


could this be the fix?? :worship:

[vp rsvmille]

I did this rotor buttons mod before I went to ride at Philip Island in March this year and yes it fixed the problem by about 90%. I still get pulsating from front braking at highspeed (we're talking a difference of pulsating at 80km/h to now happening at about 150-160km/h).

I used to notice the problem a lot on street riding but have not felt it anymore (except on track where brakes get used a lot more often).

One other suspect is too much compression dampning causing some minor hydraulic locking in the forks.

I noticed this same problem on a brand new 04 Factory at Philip Island too (only slightly better than my modified rotor buttons).

[angrybob]

Yes...STM are the ones. A little pricey, but hey I'm worth it!

I don't have any pics. Let me know if you want me to take some.

[falco03]

nice post, griz! i've been looking for a fix like this. i'm getting real tired of the pulsing.......can i suggest posting this on the falco forum? i don't know how to do it. i'm sure they / we would appreciate it.

[ccrsvo]

I finally got to go for a ride. The rotors feel like new! I tried the 2 pieces of wood trick and couldn't get it to work. The other way worked fine. Anyone not wanting to spend $300 per rotor should try this. It works. Thanks for the advice.

[fisyfish]

What is the benifit of having the rotors giggle? Could this add extra wear to the rotors over time (at the buttons)? Just trying to understand braking more. Thanks guys!

[bandicoot]

When the rotors "jiggle", The pads will seat against the rotor surface more evenly, causing better braling due to more contact surface. It will also wear more evenly due to more contact surface.

[fisyfish]

makes sense to my now. Thanks
:peace:

[sconly]

good post

[fisyfish]

I went ahead and gave this a try. And so glad I did!!! The increase in stopping power is amasing! Thanks for the great tip!
:D

[mitchv60]

I've never had a problem with my buttons seizing or had any pulsing from the brakes but went ahead and did this mod anyway.
I did a trackday saturday and this was the first test I had done sinse I had done the buttons.
The brakes have got a lot more power and feel now than they ever did before.Its alot easier to carry brakes into the corner and feel what its doing.
I didn't notice any extra noise from the rotors,probably cause I've just swapped from the evo box over to the renegade.Christ how noisy is that.:D
Just to add,very loose buttons seem to be the way to go.A guy I know runs a zx6rr in the endurance races over here and he's got a set of modified discs that came from france.There are about 4-5 times looser than you can get the brembos and they seem to work really well.

[20Hz]

reggie check out spiegler. I went with their DIY kit (you re-use teh stock carriers and put on new swept area with full floating buttons) big improvement in feel and power. I'm super pleased, for about half the price of new ff iron rotors.

http://www.spieglerusa.com/cfm/dys.cfm


edit- I did this because despite religous cleaning of the buttons my rotors warped out at 3000 miles. Dissapointing, but I have much better brakes now, and that's a good thing:D

[Reggie Perrin]

Thanks for the tip 20hz..

just a bit of a warning for you guys who have done this already... I made my discs full floating and have that satisfying jingle of discs at low speed.. So much in fact that other riders all point and think my brakes are about to fall apart..

the problem comes at low speed when filtering or at junctions.. My brakes ahve started to make a horrible sort of screeching noise which I can only think is the disks moving about, the problem is much worse when leant over..

Not a really big problem but be aware that it happens and it's loud and unpleasant sounding...
And YES, I do have a race can (Art straight through) and I can still here it..... :p:

I think the only solution for me now is new rotors or complete new discs...
Just missed out on a set of cast iron rotors from a 916SP on Ebay, that would be the best way forward....

Had a quick lesson at the weekend... never mix superbike power and poor memory... forgot that roundabout was there..... Glad the brakes are very good.....!!!!!! :eek:

[chrisexup]

Reggie, Before you fork out for new rotors clean the current ones up with wire wool or fine wet & dry, then give 'em a good squirt of brake cleaner. De-glaze your pads or fit new ones and Robert's your Mum's brother!
Chris.

[Reggie Perrin]

once again, thanks for the tip... BUT..

I've tried all methods of cleaning the discs, to no avail....
Simply, they're buggered.... :(

got to approx 6.5K miles before they warped and reckon lots of track days and the trip to Spain with DP racing pads in didn't help...

not a massive expense really I suppose in the grand scheme of things... At least my insurance is dirt cheap.....!!! :D

Whoops... sorry... different thread.....:bitchslap

Reg

[chrisexup]

Okay Reggie.
You may like to know Trade Direct (08705 134859)do a pair of replacement rotors and buttons to fit the original centres, and you can tweak the spring washers as you build them up to give loads of float. A pair for my exup 18 months ago was £120. One word of caution - their rotors don't work very well with EBC HH pads. Or motomecca is usually a cheap source of Brembo parts, and RSVR.net sells the original discs as well as the Brembo full floating race jobbies.
Chris.

[20Hz]

the spieglers were $356, I just looked at the receipt. No tweaking of the rotor springs or anything, they're real ff buttons. And they jangle over potholes when not on the brakes, but other than that, no increased noise. FYI

-if you do decide to go with them shoot me a pm so I can give you a few heads-ups regarding the install :D


Chris

[chrman]

Griz,

Can you repost the pictures from the initial post? They're no longer showing up.

Thanks!!

[man10a]

Back to this issue again, I have used the above mentioned technique to free up the buttons of my Tuono, I have also freed up the cylinders in the calipers by cleaning them extensively by WD40, I also rubbed the stock Brembo pads with steel wool to be sure that they are not glazed but all these with no success. The rotors are still vibrating at above about 80km/h and I don't know what else to do before I go to my local dealer and see if can get new rotors under warranty (no big chances I think).
Maybe changing the pads with softer organic ones (like Ferodo Platinum) or rubbing also the disk surfaces with steel wool to clear it from pads residue?
I wonder if we are ever going to find a permanent solution to this very common problem or if Aprilia can officially explain this systematic behaviour (Clarkie maybe?)
Reggie what did you do after all?

[kzmille]

Sometimes the discs are warped and need to be replaced. If you replace them I would go with after market discs and that will end your problem.

[jenspebu]

Griz,

Can you repost the pictures from the initial post? They're no longer showing up.

Thanks!!

Yeah, please do so :)

[ky_rsv_rider]

try the pics posted here when I couldn't get them to pull up on the first thread about the buttons so I got another one started.

http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50811

[ky_rsv_rider]

paulphin2002 posted these when I couldnt get the others to pull up either :plus:

[Taxman]

I just did this mod this evening and will try them out tomorrow. I hope it's the fix, which it sounds like it will be. Thanks for this info.....

[fast4d]

I did this and over time it became very loose and noise. I had to bent the spring partially back. there's still plenty of movement.

[NorCalRSVR]

After I cleaned them I put a drop of teflon based lube on each button(stuff called Triflo).
I did the same but I used anti sieze compound. It's quite a bit stickier and didn't run out when heated up. Seems to have worked well. Another thing to remember is that if your caliper pistons aren't moving together, IE, inner and outer pistons pressing the pads against the rotors you'll get a pulsation at the lever also. Just another thing to check before buying a new set of rotors. Also, a buddy of mine once had a tire replaced and the shop bent his rotor carriers during the tire change. They then tried to deny that it was them and even tried to blame him using a disc lock as the cause. The resulting bent carrier felt like a warped rotor at the lever.

the trip to Spain with DP racing pads in didn't help... I used to swear by DP pads. I used them exclusively until I realized that the compound is so abrasive that my discs were completely shot when it came time to replace the pads yet again. I don't know how many pads I'd been through by that time though. All I'm saying is that I don't think it's a good idea to run that abrasive a pad on the stock rotors. I've just changed mine out for Carbonne Lorraine SBK5 pads as the consensus seems to be that they're quite gentle on rotors.......I'll find out once I get the bike back together.....sean

[Beau1K]

The original post pictures aren't working :(

Not that I need this...I have the AXIS Iron full floaters...NICE!!!!

[Taxman]

The original post pictures aren't working :(

Not that I need this...I have the AXIS Iron full floaters...NICE!!!!

Look on the 2nd page in this thread for the pictures.

[doubleup16]

I just did this to my brakes. I had been getting a slight pulse when coming to a slow stop. Nothing in the higher MPH after I cleaned the buttons. I also de-glazed the rotors at the same time since I had them off. Boy am I glad I did. I never though I was lacking bite and power to stop, but now that I have done this, looking back it is crazy what I was missing. The wobble or pulse from the brakes has also gone away from the button trick, although a side affect is the noise that the rotors make over bumps. I would rather have a little noise here and there than pulsing, weak brakes. Everyone who is thinking about trying it, should do this FREE mod .

[Taxman]

well rode the bike today up to AF1 and the brakes worked awsome. I not only lost the dreaded pulsing, but got a lot more stopping power to boot. I love it. No noise either, or my bike is just loud enough to muffle it for me. :cheers:

[ILDUCE]

This post has been a Godsend.. saved me a small fortune. I was ready to chuck in my mille and buy a Beemer:eek:.. Then i read this post. and thought I would suck it and see... I now have proper judder free brakes again. and my confidence in the front end has gone through the roof...I propose that this post be given the all time most useful post on the forum award..fkin brilliant stuff..:burnout:

[NorCalRSVR]

This post has been a Godsend.. saved me a small fortune. I was ready to chuck in my mille and buy a Beemer:eek:.. Then i read this post. and thought I would suck it and see... I now have proper judder free brakes again. and my confidence in the front end has gone through the roof...I propose that this post be given the all time most useful post on the forum award..fkin brilliant stuff..:burnout:
Honestly, this information has been posted previous to this particular thread. I did mine however after reading this thread but mostly because I already have the front end all apart anyway. The front wheel was just sitting there and I was thinking about my brakes anyway. I didn't have any 'juddering' or the dreaded warped rotor feel. I just went and did it anyway. While I was at it, I cleaned my calipers up and then surfaced my rotors to deglaze them. All I need now are my forks back from Lindemann and I can get the front end put back together. I can't wait to check out what my brakes feel like now, with essentially new rotor surface, the rotor button mod and new brake pads. Besides all that, I'll have newly rebuilt, re-sprung and re-valved forks too.....it'll be like having a new bike!.......sean

[matt_the_blat]

Can I just clarify something:

Normal and gentle braking is fine but I get a "juddering" from the front suspension under hard braking, particularly as I'm coming up to a stop - it's definitely coming through the suspension and not a "pulsing" at the brake lever (which I would associate with warped discs).

The sag is set for my weight and I've had a play with the damping so I'm reasonably sure that it's not a suspension problem (i.e. bottoming out), but is actually coming from the brakes.

Does this sound like the same symptoms as what is described here as "pulsing"? i.e. a problem that might be cured by tinkering with the buttons/washers between the discs and carriers?

Does anyone have the pics from the original post in this thread? They've disappeared (or I can't see them anyway). Alternatively I'll try and post some pics of my discs to get clarification of what needs doing.

Cheers,

Matt ;)

[kiddo]

Hi Matt the Blat.

A cupped and worn front tire will act exactly as you describe.

Maybe it is time for a new front shoe?

just a thought...

[matt_the_blat]

Hi Matt the Blat.

A cupped and worn front tire will act exactly as you describe.

Maybe it is time for a new front shoe?

just a thought...


Avon Viper Supersport - only done about 800 miles and plenty of life left in it yet so I doubt that's the issue. But to be sure, can you describe what you mean by "cupped"? I'm probably familiar with the phenomenon, just not the term.

Cheers,

Matt ;)

[Davenet]

I did this back in '04 & have 15-20K on it since w/ no more problems. The only thing that I've started to notice is more klinking from the rotor / buttons over sharp bumps due to the wear of the buttons always moving. But that more than offsets the shudder that used to occur.

David

Cupped = Scalloped = high/low spots along the rolling radius:

[Brucetafer]

BUMP!!!!!!!!!

Does anybody know about doing this to the Braking Wave rotors?? or can anybody do this to any semi float rotor???

[Rlhay2]

It can be done to any semi-floating rotor.
It's a common club racing performance mod for it also reduces rolling resistance.

[Brucetafer]

Great im doing it tonight then :)

[mcneece]

i am about to do this. does anyone have the pictures you can (re)post?

[Dolenc]

Just to make sure Im thinking correctly before I do anything.

What part needs bending? And where to bend it, I suspect up :D

http://www.motosvet.com/album/images/2007/680/20090429111559_rotorbutton2.JPG

[chrman]

Just to make sure Im thinking correctly before I do anything.

What part needs bending? And where to bend it, I suspect up :D

http://www.motosvet.com/album/images/2007/680/20090429111559_rotorbutton2.JPG

In the pic above, the petals pointed to by arrow #1 are already bent upward. That's what you want to bend, but not too far!!

[Dolenc]

Oke, thanks! Will give it a go today :)

[Dolenc]

Did this finaly today. First 10km was almost without brakes, gues the k&n air filter cleaning spray has a bit of grease in it, after a few km the brakes were back (uf what a relief :D), so far no pulsing, but the street were wet so didnt brake hard. Will see after a while if it helps and report back :)

Took me almost 1 hour to get all of the pins bend, but other than that simple mod.

[Mike]

I did this today as well, so far so good on a short ride.

I used a 1/2" chisel to get under the tabs and it went fairly quick. The chisel was torn up by the end but it was worth it.

[Kyytsö]

On a Futura, should I remove the front wheel from the bike, or can this be done with bike on center stand and front lifted?

Thanks!

[Dolenc]

Remove the wheel and you will also have to remove the discs.

You can try with it on, Im not saing its imposible, maybe a superman can do it :D

And a warning, if you do this, follow the suggestions in this topic, dont bend the rivets too much, make them flat, not concave, it takes just a little bit of bending.

[Kyytsö]

Cheers,

will need to get a bigger wrench to get the wheel nut open.

Ville

[Skoot]

I've also got the pulsating feeling when hanking on the brakes, but it feels like it's only coming from the right hand side. Bikes not even covered 6k miles. It's been getting alot worse recently, I'll have to try this.

[BerlinKowgirl]

What a priceless tip! Ingenious! Thanks for sharing this advice!

Done it to my rotors today and it feels like a brandnew bike. No more pulsing, just nice and crisp braking power!

I was about to order new rotors. Took me about an hour to get the wheel out and bend the tabs, clean the rotors and put the wheel back in. Saved me a bunch of dough.

Thank you!


Cheers,
Peewee

[Fox Fader]

I did the several weeks ago and it just made the pulsation worse. Doesn't work for all.

[chrman]

I did the several weeks ago and it just made the pulsation worse. Doesn't work for all.

You probably have a warped rotor.

[KbomonFalco]

If you catch it too late this mod doesn't work. Like chrman said, your rotors are warped. I was too late on the Falco rotors and had to replace them. Did this mod on the replacements and Mille rotors and they've been perfect. Even after a number of track days. No need to go crazy, just a slight bend of the tangs is all that's needed.

[chrman]

...No need to go crazy, just a slight bend of the tangs is all that's needed.

Good point - too much bend and the rotors will just make alot of noise.

[crash277]

thanks to the new forums.. i found this thread. my 04 has 4400KM on it and the rotors were pulsating on the test drive (i bought it anyways).

i may have to go turn the heat on to my workshop. cause i already got the rotors off LoL.

[crash277]

it is -11 out, but i managed to do this. only i wont be able to see if it worked for a few months. LoL

[CorseKiwi]

I just did this on my ST4s. Works a treat.....magic!

[bandido_002003]

Hi

I hav the same trouble with my rotors and searching in the forum I've discoverred this thread...how could I see the photographs??? the explanation is sogood but a picture helps a lot.

Thanx:D

[yomikey]

Some threads say bend the petals up some say bend them down, which is it???

[kzmille]

When new the tabs are in contact with the disc or carrier so if your goal is to loosen them bend them away from disc and carrier. If the ends of the tabs are not in contact with the disc and carrier, someone has already modified them.