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Corkus
06-30-2012, 06:26 AM
(This thread is about Euro car coils in the Futura. Here is a thread about adapting Japanese motorcycle coils for the Futura. (http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?254030-Adapting-Japanese-motorcycle-coils-for-the-Futura))

After this thread has taken it's course, here is a summary about using European car coils in the Futura and buying information for those of us in America who are not familiar with these parts.

Start with a part number like one of these. They are all for very similar car European car coils that are very close electrically to the Sagem Futura coil.

Citroen 597077
Peugeot 597094
Fiat 9633001580
Lancia 9633001590
Renualt: 9633001580
Valeo 245094
Beru 0040100347

Americans can buy these coils on ebay.co.uk by searching the above part numbers and checking for shipping options to America. Searching these part numbers on ebay.co.uk or google.uk will return many hits for generic coils and two brands of high quality replacements. Beru and Valeo seem to be the highest quality replacements for these coils. If you go with generic coils, well, hopefully you receive coils of good quality and not garbage.

The coils need to be modified. There are two methods well described with photos. One method, shown in post #12 involves making and soldering a center electrode for the car coil. The other method shown in post #18 involves the opposite, modifying the Aprilia coil lead with a machine screw and part of a spark plug.

Two other notes:

One, there is a possible supplier of very cheap European style car coils in Orange County CA. That link is listed below in post #4. These are unproven generic coils but they could possibly work. The supplier may not want to sell in small quantities.

The other note is there is a possible supplier on ebay.co.uk that sells a generic coil and custom coil wire combination. That link is in post #14. Together this is very close to Plug'n'Play except you need a pair of pliers to attach the coil lead. The only problems with this part is the supplier is often out of stock and the coil is a generic one.

All of this is explained below.

Corkus
06-30-2012, 06:55 AM
Here are some OEM Part Numbers. One or all of these may work.
Citroen : 597077
Peugeot : 597094
Fiat : 9633001580
Lancia : 9633001590
Renualt : 9633001580 and 7701479027


Example 1, ebay.co.uk seller that ships to USA:
PEUGEOT-CITROEN-RENAULT 597077 link for ebay.co.uk seller (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-PEUGEOT-CITROEN-RENAULT-IGNITION-COIL-597077-1-YEAR-WARRANTY-/330636879275?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4cfb7e65ab) $217.60 delivered to USA for 4 coils, 140
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/renaultcoil3.jpg


Example 2, British car parts store, no USA shipping:
Part number: 413745171 Euro Car Parts Store (http://www.eurocarparts.com/search/413745171/p/home) 26.34 ($41.31) no usa shipping
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/RenaultClioCoil.jpg


Example 3 AF1 OEM Aprilia Coil:
Part Numbers: AP8124864 (8124864) AF1 Austin Texas (http://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=2484) $177 plus shipping
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/af1coil.jpg


Other coil:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/renaultcoil2.jpg

Corkus
06-30-2012, 06:57 AM
From apriliafutura.co.uk (http://www.apriliafutura.co.uk/v2/workshop/electrics/73-ignition-coils.html)

How to fit Renault coils
Here's Ib12's guide:

1. Remove sleeve on Renault coil. Mark on coil body with white marker where cap connector plug sits.
2. Remove cap - doesn't matter if you destroy as it's not needed.
3. Mark Aprilia coil cap where connector exits so you can marry up with the mark on Renault coil.
4. Using a ring spanner slide up the Aprilia body and whack the cap off, it will come off after a couple of whacks.
5. Cut Renault coil to same length as OEM (grey plastic bit at bottom).
6. Fit cap aligning pins with marks made earlier. I used silicon to seal it. I also cut down some of the spring from the Renault coil and put a self tapper in to make the connection with the HT lead. I also used a cable tie to hold the HT lead just in case

RAS
06-30-2012, 07:22 AM
A while back, someone (sorry, can't remember who) did the leg work to find this link http://www.autoignitioncoil.com/ac-3042-auto-ignition-coil.html They were $30 each

Befbever
06-30-2012, 07:24 AM
And I also used RVT to seal the entire coil from moisture. Coz that's the trouble with OE as well. I found Valeo coils right around the corner. Modified them the HansB way and they never gave any trouble. If I can retrieve the part # I can ship to the USA no problem.
Edit: outposted by RAS. Supplier in the USA, cool!

RAS
06-30-2012, 07:32 AM
Ah, here's the original post - markdam http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?190661-Alternative-Coils/page13

Corkus
06-30-2012, 09:49 AM
And I also used RVT to seal the entire coil from moisture. Coz that's the trouble with OE as well. I found Valeo coils right around the corner. Modified them the HansB way and they never gave any trouble. If I can retrieve the part # I can ship to the USA no problem.
Edit: outposted by RAS. Supplier in the USA, cool!

Befbever, I saw the Valeo coil in my searching. Your comments are very helpful because you actually used this Valeo coil and have had good luck with it. And your note on using RVT sealant is the kind of tip I was looking for about installing the coils. Clever owners can often improve things and I try to watch carefully for when that happens and follow along. I may well end up with the Valeo coils. If they worked for you they may turn out to be the best option. Thanks very much.

Corkus
06-30-2012, 09:58 AM
A while back, someone (sorry, can't remember who) did the leg work to find this link http://www.autoignitioncoil.com/ac-3042-auto-ignition-coil.html They were $30 each


Ah, here's the original post - markdam http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?190661-Alternative-Coils/page13

Rick, I hope your Futura runs better than anyone's. You deserve it. This is the zillionth time you have helped me out. I read all your posts and I will give those coils a try. At that price it is like walking into a Euro Car Parts store. I might try the Valeo coils at the same time. I am determined to have a good cheap coil if I can.

I knew I was giving up on a USA supplier a little too easily, but I was out of ideas. I could not find anyone. Well, I found Fiat dealers but didn't even bother with them. AF1 has the exact right coil so I see no reason to go with a Fiat dealer.

Corkus
06-30-2012, 10:21 AM
And I also used RVT to seal the entire coil from moisture. Coz that's the trouble with OE as well. I found Valeo coils right around the corner. Modified them the HansB way and they never gave any trouble. If I can retrieve the part # I can ship to the USA no problem.
Edit: outposted by RAS. Supplier in the USA, cool!

If the Valeo coils turn out to be a good option, this is what I have found so far.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/valeocoil.jpg

Example of ebay.co.uk seller that ships Valeo coils to USA:
Part Number: Citroen 597077 ebay.co.uk seller (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IGNITION-COIL-FOR-CITOREN-C5-C6-C8-3-0-V6-ES9A-597077-/370390012466?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item563cf71232)
34.50 + 30.00 shipping set of 4 to usa. Total: $263.46

How does this information look to you Befbever? How does the connector look to you? Do you think this one will fit?

RAS
06-30-2012, 12:40 PM
Rick, I hope your Futura runs better than anyone's. You deserve it. This is the zillionth time you have helped me out. I read all your posts and I will give those coils a try. At that price it is like walking into a Euro Car Parts store. I might try the Valeo coils at the same time. I am determined to have a good cheap coil if I can.

I knew I was giving up on a USA supplier a little too easily, but I was out of ideas. I could not find anyone. Well, I found Fiat dealers but didn't even bother with them. AF1 has the exact right coil so I see no reason to go with a Fiat dealer.

Yer welcome and thanks. But real credit goes to all those folk who figured out those coils would work and how to modify 'em. And Markdam for finding a US supplier. And good grief, at that price, may as well buy 4.

Clearly, I spend too much time reading posts. Prolly should be spending more time accumulating spares. I'm still on the OE coils, knock wood.

Well, back up on the ladder.

terry mc
06-30-2012, 01:45 PM
Good Thread Corkus!
I have a suspicion that I need at least one. My bike runs stronger after being run in the upper reaches of the RPMs for a while like it is cleaning up a fouled plug.

Corkus
07-01-2012, 12:19 AM
I found the following description of how to modify Valeo coils for the Caponord on a French Caponord forum. The link has been on this forum before in French a couple times at least. The page is google-translated HERE (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fgtog.free.fr%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.ph p%3Ft%3D1313).

Unfortunately the modifications as described are not easy due to a somewhat difficult soldering step.

One question: Is the soldering step the only way to get this job done? Or perhaps sourcing Fiat 1.4 coil wires with the Valeo coils would allow connecting these coils without any soldering??? (http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?190661-Alternative-Coils&p=2772910&viewfull=1#post2772910)

On with the Valeo Coil Wire Mod:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil1.jpg
1. The Valeo coil as expected

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil2.jpg
2. The exact part used here

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil3.jpg
3. Some sort of copper rivets for the soldering modification

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil4.jpg
4. PBTP-GF20 stands for "Poly Butylene Terephthlate with 20% glass fibre". It has nothing to do with the electrical characteristics of the coil

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil5.jpg
5. The Valeo coil and the Caponord coil. The Capo coil has a center electrode that has to be added to the Valeo coil.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil6.jpg
6. No center electrode on the Valeo coil. Need one.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil7.jpg
7. This shows what to cut off of the Valeo coil. Cut along the red line and yellow line removing extra plastic. The green line shows how much of the cap to keep, trim the lower part off.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil8.jpg
8. Cutting along the yellow line shown in step 7.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil9.jpg
9. The Valeo coil all trimmed to fit.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil10.jpg
10. The new coil is on the left, OEM coil on the right.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil11.jpg
11. Making the center electrode to solder in place.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil12.jpg
12. Diagram of where the center electrode goes.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil13.jpg
13. Not sure what this step is about? Maybe removing some part of original coil area?

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil14.jpg
14. Not sure about this step either. Maybe adding resin to prep the area?

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil15.jpg
15. Soldering the electrode in place.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil16.jpg
16. The Valeo coil with a center electrode soldered in place.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil17.jpg
17. Cutting some sort of jacket to be zip tied in place. Don't get this step yet.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil18.jpg
18. The Valeo coil modified and in place. Not sure about the jacket and zip tie.

So how much of this is necessary? Is there a way around the soldering? Is there a way to change the coil wires and simply plug in valeo coils after just trimming them down?

bmwbob51
07-01-2012, 12:49 AM
I hope I never have to deal with this issue! Still on stock coils, live in CA. (dry climate) and I don't ride in the rain anymore!

slyV
07-01-2012, 03:03 AM
If you want a plug'n'play option:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270685760230

autoelectricsuk@yahoo.co.uk >> ask if they have on stock the new batch [the silly price tag means it's not available yet].

I was out of patience so I modified some Renault coils = PITA!

deefred
07-01-2012, 03:25 AM
Here (http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?223997-Capo-HT-Coil-substitution-Beru-ZS347-!-!&p=2778440&viewfull=1#post2778440) is another way of modifying a BERU coil.

RAS
07-01-2012, 07:47 AM
Here (http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?223997-Capo-HT-Coil-substitution-Beru-ZS347-!-!&p=2778440&viewfull=1#post2778440) is another way of modifying a BERU coil.

I've never really understood why not just make an adapter to convert the coil-over-plug female end to a what we have. Think I'd try that 1st

Corkus
07-01-2012, 08:19 AM
If you want a plug'n'play option:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270685760230

autoelectricsuk@yahoo.co.uk >> ask if they have on stock the new batch [the silly price tag means it's not available yet].

I was out of patience so I modified some Renault coils = PITA!


slyV, there is so much going on with these coil possibilities that this is very confusing. I saw those Auto-Tech coils the first day I was looking but didn't realize they were plug'n'play and they shipped to the USA.

They are out of stock currently. Of course. This wasn't going to be easy. I emailed the seller to find out when they will have stock and a price.

Those are generic coils right? Not Berus? All the reading I have been doing I'm starting to want one of the better coil makers. Hopefully that is a good quality coil.

Thanks sly!!!

Corkus
07-01-2012, 08:27 AM
Here (http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?223997-Capo-HT-Coil-substitution-Beru-ZS347-!-!&p=2778440&viewfull=1#post2778440) is another way of modifying a BERU coil.

All photos and descriptions are from the link deefred posted HERE (http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?223997-Capo-HT-Coil-substitution-Beru-ZS347-!-!&p=2778440&viewfull=1#post2778440) and the work was done by forum member GeM (http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/member.php?36837-GeM).

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/Beru1.jpg


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/Beru2.jpg


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/Beru3.jpg


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/Beru4.jpg


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/Beru5.jpg


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/Beru6.jpg


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/Beru7.jpg


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/Beru8.jpg


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/Beru9.jpg


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/Beru10.jpg

Corkus
07-01-2012, 08:35 AM
I've never really understood why not just make an adapter to convert the coil-over-plug female end to a what we have. Think I'd try that 1st

Rick, please explain here. I'm not getting your comment. Please type s-l-o-w-e-r so I can follow.:D

RAS
07-01-2012, 09:11 AM
Adapter - that's basically what this guy in those picts did. Sparkplugs come with 2 types of tops - one is a small diameter, threaded post. The other is what's shown in those picts above. That variety usually screws onto the top of those threaded posts, but sometimes comes as one piece on the top of the plug. So this guy threaded that plug top onto a screw and cut the screw head off. He then inserted the threaded end into the female end of the coil where it was designed to sit right on a plug with a threaded top. Perfect, an adapter now to fit the female end of our coil wires.

Yeah, it adds anther connection, but so what. There's 30,000 volts there. As long as it's mechanically sound and not coming apart, it's OK.

And, that 0.5 or 0.8 ohm resistance - I believe that's the primary side. This adapter is on the secondary side where the coil resistance is 10k ohms.

What's not clear to me is why that guy went to the trouble of removing the top of the new coil. I don't think it was necessary, but he did it just to make trimming plastic easier and then sealing the top with that epoxy.

That AC auto parts place is not supplying the original, but a copy. If the original is bad, will the copy(erm, made in c--a) be worse? Hard to know w/o trying. Best bet is to seal whatever you wind up with so that moister cannot get in.

In rereading all this, I saw someone had posted that he used KAwasaki coils. My buddy's ZRX coils have the same specs. His are not coil over plug, but there are kits out there to convert his bike to this. So, those coils also would work.

RAS
07-01-2012, 09:33 AM
This is what you get when you trash one of our stock sparkplugs (I save 'em - dunno why). If the normal sparkplug top will snap into the Cleo coils, then the smaller diameter post can be made to fit our coil wires with a bit of crimping. Easy - just trim away the extra plastic at the top, trim the "adapter" from the old plug, crimp the female ends of the plug wire so that connection is a press fit. Seal it all up and go ride.

RAS
07-01-2012, 09:35 AM
Oh, it took a small pipe wrench with the plug held in the vice to break that piece where it's in my fingies. Once broken, it jut slid right out. Guess you could take a hammer to the ceramic to avoid leaving unsightly teeth marks in the top.

deefred
07-01-2012, 10:26 AM
Im a bit worried about the lack of the diod in the beru coil compared to what is seen in the Aprilia coil top.

In the long run the lack of it may degrade and kill an ECU.
This is of course only speculation from my side but It is an extra cost for Aprilia to add it, so I dont think
they did it without some thought behind.

RAS
07-01-2012, 10:40 AM
Im a bit worried about the lack of the diod in the beru coil compared to what is seen in the Aprilia coil top.

In the long run the lack of it may degrade and kill an ECU.
This is of course only speculation from my side but It is an extra cost for Aprilia to add it, so I dont think
they did it without some thought behind.

Do you know, does the Cleo coil have that diode?

In the lower left of the 1st pict above showing the opened Beru coil cap, isn't that a diode? - sitting horizontal at 12 oclock, silver line to the right sowing polarity.

Hmm, I now see why he removed that cap - that mount is a bigger diameter than the Cleo's.

Corkus
07-01-2012, 10:57 AM
When I grow up I want to be like RAS and deefred :D

deefred
07-01-2012, 11:10 AM
I thought that the left one was the Beru coil top and the right the Aprilia one?

It will be easy to identify with a resistance check.
If it makes a difference of which polarity of the multimeter you connect where on the coil, then there is a coil in there.

With my older multimeter I could not get a reading of the secondary windings at all but with my new an better multimeter I get either no reading (negative pole on the HT connector) or a reading in mega ohm range with positive pole on the HT connector.

P.S I have now confirmed that the picture is showing the BERU coil so there is a diod in there.

RAS
07-01-2012, 11:47 AM
I thought that the left one was the Beru coil top and the right the Aprilia one?

It will be easy to identify with a resistance check.
If it makes a difference of which polarity of the multimeter you connect where on the coil, then there is a coil in there.

With my older multimeter I could not get a reading of the secondary windings at all but with my new an better multimeter I get either no reading (negative pole on the HT connector) or a reading in mega ohm range with positive pole on the HT connector.

On 4th look, yeah, yer right. Hard to tell what's in that cap with the pict being a bit out of focus.

When I checked resistance on the coils (think they were Suzuki stick coils) for that Kaw, I did not bother reversing polarity. He's not installed them yet, so we could check.

Somewhere, there's a reasonably priced replacement with the same specs/features.

Wonder if that AC place knows the answer about the diode?

Corkus
07-01-2012, 12:20 PM
... When I checked resistance on the coils (think they were Suzuki stick coils) for that Kaw, I did not bother reversing polarity. He's not installed them yet, so we could check.

Somewhere, there's a reasonably priced replacement with the same specs/features.

Wonder if that AC place knows the answer about the diode?

Rick, I'm going to begin a similar thread about using Japanese coils, Suzuki GSX-R, Honda CBR600RR, Kawasaki ZX-6 and ZX-10, etc.

I have decided not to go anywhere near the AC Coils. They are so cheap and there is no information about the quality. Plus the seller may not want to sell in small quantities. I do not feel very confident about AC as the supplier. They might be good but there are lots of good coils out there. I want Euro car coils from Beru or Valeo. Or I'll go with a good Japanese coils like Denso if that can be worked out more easily.

I think the Euro car coil options are clearing up. I edited the first post in this thread to be a summary of the Euro car coil options.

RAS
07-01-2012, 01:51 PM
A while back, a few guys substituted OE with gixxer coils. No shortage of perfectly good coils from relatively new, crashed GSXRs (hey, watch this!). The gixxer coils my friend has measured up to the Sagem specs. As to whether there's a diode, and it looks like there may not be in the Beru, again, I did not check.

Corkus
07-02-2012, 12:04 AM
I just found THIS THREAD from 2008 (http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?153912-Fitting-the-non-Aprilai-coils&highlight=kawasaki+coils) by mikeo with detailed directions and 17 photos showing how he fit some generic Euro car coils to a Caponord. The methods already shown on this discussion thread look more up to date but someone had to be first to try car coils in an Aprilia. mikeo gets credit because he must have been one of the first to try this.

He used Plus8 generic Euro car coils and some Renault LT leads (from a car). Then he modified the coils to mate with the leads and soldered the leads into the bike.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/mikeoplus810.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/mikeoplus811.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/mikeoplus814.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/mikeoplus817.jpg

slyV
07-02-2012, 02:59 AM
Yes, these are the exact coils [like @mikeo] I used.

I don't think the Auto-Tech coils are Valeo or Beru ones, but we should ask the seller for details.

Be aware that even the Valeo, Beru coils are not record holders for reliability... There are long threads on Renault,Nissan and even Benelli forums complaining about OEM coils, then switching to Valeo, Beru >> then complaining again :)

Corkus
07-02-2012, 08:50 AM
Yes, these are the exact coils [like @mikeo] I used.

I don't think the Auto-Tech coils are Valeo or Beru ones, but we should ask the seller for details.

Be aware that even the Valeo, Beru coils are not record holders for reliability... There are long threads on Renault,Nissan and even Benelli forums complaining about OEM coils, then switching to Valeo, Beru >> then complaining again :)

I'm sure Beru and Valeo coils have all the problems you are saying but I don't see reports of better coils out there of this type (possibly yes with the Japanese coils if they can be adapted). Are Beru/Valeo coils perfect parts? Of course not. But what is better? OEM Sagem? Probably yes because there is no fitting and modifying to do, but certainly not if you factor in price.

Generic coils are unproven. That's why they are generic and less expensive. Hopefully they are good parts and a bargain. But, I won't use them. 20,000 miles more out of my bike will make me happy. 30,000 and I'll be the happiest rider on the planet. I'm doing the coils once. Hopefully.

Precis
08-15-2012, 05:43 AM
Yes, these are the exact coils [like @mikeo] I used.
I don't think the Auto-Tech coils are Valeo or Beru ones, but we should ask the seller for details.
Be aware that even the Valeo, Beru coils are not record holders for reliability... There are long threads on Renault,Nissan and even Benelli forums complaining about OEM coils, then switching to Valeo, Beru >> then complaining again :)

The Auto-Tech coils were specifically made for the Caponord - and therefore by extension, the Futura.
History goes like this: a Capo-rider called Ugly 58, who lives in Nevada even though he's English, got sick of the threat of imminent coil failure, so he made contact with a guy called Amrish making auto electrics - especially coils - in London.
After a few prototypes were kicked back & forth, the so-called Amrish coils became available and lots of Capo-riders grabbed sets. Never heard of a single failure (they ARE intended to be used in Britain, so pretty-much underwater...)
But Amrish decided that these motor-bicycle contraptions were getting in the way of his car-electrics business, so he gave/sold the bike-side of the business to either his brother, or brother-in-law - who has pretty-much DOUBLED the price since the originals were made about 2-3 years ago.

So, short story long: yes they are absolutely 100% perfect for our bikes and have an enviable reliability record - they're just eye-wateringly expensive. But they are plug-and-play for those that can afford them; the rest of us seek Nirvana more cheaply.

RAS
08-16-2012, 01:30 PM
FOund an article that I believe describes the function of the diode in our coils. http://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1025&context=auto_pres&sei-redir=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt %26rct%3Dj%26q%3Dchevy%2520coil%2520over%2520plug% 26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D5%26ved%3D0CFgQFjAE%26url%3D http%253A%252F%252Fopensiuc.lib.siu.edu%252Fcgi%25 2Fviewcontent.cgi%253Farticle%253D1025%2526context %253Dauto_pres%26ei%3D9SktUJr7JOvUyQH23IC4CQ%26usg %3DAFQjCNEBTCm5Nuh_nqLXS0X3v72kx-V32Q#search=%22chevy%20coil%20over%20plug%22

So if ya page down about half way, there's a slide that says "As coil is switched off, high voltage inductive kick is sufficient to cross zener acting as
“confirmation pulse”" The next slide says, "Lack of confirmation pulse results in P035x fault
Some vehicles in turn stop injector pulse to that cylinder"

So it looks like it's there to cause the ecu to shut off fuel to a cylinder that's not got a spark.

Could also be how our ECU knows when a coil is not sparking and then kicks up a code.

As to whether the Sagem shuts off the fuel if both plugs don't fire???? Do plugs come out of our motor in a non-sparking cylinder soaked or dry?

Pars
04-25-2013, 09:08 AM
I've found that one could use the brass part you can see on bottomside of the fried OEM coil. Just cut the gray part off and you can remove it. It fits perfectly in the gap of the Valeo coils.


219669

First put some flux where the brass part will be soldered on the new coil. Then put 3/4 drops of soldering material inside. Treat the brass part you retrieved with flux and heat it with a gas blowlamp and push it on/in the soldering material on the new coil making sure it's centered. Done!
Shorten the rubber boot with 1" and remove one of it's rubber "ribs" too. Now the rubber boot from coil to spark plug will fit neatly.


I found the following description of how to modify Valeo coils for the Caponord on a French Caponord forum. The link has been on this forum before in French a couple times at least. The page is google-translated HERE (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fgtog.free.fr%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.ph p%3Ft%3D1313).

Unfortunately the modifications as described are not easy due to a somewhat difficult soldering step.

One question: Is the soldering step the only way to get this job done? Or perhaps sourcing Fiat 1.4 coil wires with the Valeo coils would allow connecting these coils without any soldering??? (http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?190661-Alternative-Coils&p=2772910&viewfull=1#post2772910)

On with the Valeo Coil Wire Mod:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil1.jpg
1. The Valeo coil as expected





http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil4.jpg
4. PBTP-GF20 stands for "Poly Butylene Terephthlate with 20% glass fibre". It has nothing to do with the electrical characteristics of the coil

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil5.jpg
5. The Valeo coil and the Caponord coil. The Capo coil has a center electrode that has to be added to the Valeo coil.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil6.jpg
6. No center electrode on the Valeo coil. Need one.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil7.jpg
7. This shows what to cut off of the Valeo coil. Cut along the red line and yellow line removing extra plastic. The green line shows how much of the cap to keep, trim the lower part off.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil8.jpg
8. Cutting along the yellow line shown in step 7.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil9.jpg
9. The Valeo coil all trimmed to fit.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil10.jpg
10. The new coil is on the left, OEM coil on the right.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil11.jpg
11. Making the center electrode to solder in place.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil12.jpg
12. Diagram of where the center electrode goes.



http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/strongbird2008/frenchvaleocoil15.jpg
15. Soldering the electrode in place.

Honeybadger
04-25-2013, 05:57 PM
My one piece of advice - DO NOT GET COILS WITHOUT PIGTAILS, the coil plug is a BITCH to get to stay seated

futura rider nl
05-15-2013, 05:31 AM
modified both beru as valeo coils.first attemt failed after approx 10.000 dutch (=wet)km. i had serieus corrosion in the front cylinder coils. the high voltage connection from coils -leads were not sufficiant water proof and water got in . The arcing sparks in the corroded connection destroyed the coil connection and made it brittle . during replacement of the coil the endconnection snapped right off !

i now seal the connection with hylomar and found this to be working well.

aoro
08-14-2013, 07:39 AM
The coil form NGK U5008 is the same coil as Valeo :)

http://www.ngk.de/nc/en/product-finder/produktfinder/PKW/ZUENDSPULEN/RENAULT/LAGUNA%2520II%2520%2528BG0%25201_%2529/U5008/16692/

229412

Honeybadger
08-14-2013, 10:30 AM
I have two of these coils already modified to fit the futura, if anyone wants them. $25 apiece plus shipping.

Argh Oh
08-14-2013, 04:55 PM
'09 CBR coils plus stock harness ebay- $62.00. NO mods to coil body, they only needed 8-24 brass machine screw threads pushed into coil end to connect with Aprillia HT lead. Cut threaded part to fit, roughly 18mm YMMV. Solder CBR LT plugs to Fut harness. It IS that simple.

Stanleybobly
12-03-2013, 03:56 PM
The coil form NGK U5008 is the same coil as Valeo :)

http://www.ngk.de/nc/en/product-finder/produktfinder/PKW/ZUENDSPULEN/RENAULT/LAGUNA%2520II%2520%2528BG0%25201_%2529/U5008/16692/

229412

worldwide shipping from Berlin:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/NGK-U5008-ZUNDSPULE-ZUNDMODUL-2-POLIG-ANSCHLUsTECHNIK-SAE-/360666230642?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item53f961ef72