low rpm stalling

[roman67]

Hello all,
I'm having some problems getting on the yahoo forum and I know a lot of you guys go between both of these CN forums, so sorry for repeating myself. Anyway, my question revolves around the low rpm stalling. Has anyone remapped their ECU using the Tune Boy software? How easy was it and did it fix the problem? Or has anyone solved the problem changing the check valve as discussed in Tod's CN page? Any help would be appreciated.
Interestingly, at the Chicago Motorcycle show in February I spoke to an Aprilia rep who told me they would be exchanging ECU chips to fix the problem, but as many of you have pointed out, the Sagem chip can be just remapped, and not replaced like an EPROM chip. My own Aprilia dealer ,here in Chicago, evidently does not have the software to do this and otherwise does not know how to remidy the problem! I can't understand why not, so I'm not sure the best way to fix this. It is getting frustrating commuting in traffic with the bike stalling unless I constantly feather the clutch.
Otherwise, this bike has been a dream! Next up heated grips and a GPS unit. Planning a trip to Nova Scotia this summer.

Roman
2002 Infinity Blue
Chicago

[RinOz]

www.caporider.com/ (http://www.caporider.com/)

[StuO]

Roman,
I recently purchased a 50-state Capo from Aprilia's western press bike fleet in Costa Mesa. Aprilia had just equipped both of these '02 Capos with re-mapped ECMs. The bike I purchased no longer suffers from stalling when moving off from a stop, though there are occasional hiccoughs during warm-up. I don't believe the check valve is relevant to the issue, as the bike would be more likely to die of fuel starvation while accelerating rather than at idle. I think check valve removal is yet another unproven bit of Internet intelligence that bears watching but not necessarily following.
Stu O
Scottsdale, Az.

[roman67]

Stu,
I appreciate your input and agree with you regarding the check valve. I will be remapping my ECU this weekend and will let you know how it goes. I will be doing this away from my supposed " Aprilia" dealership. They do not have the software to do this because they tell me that Aprilia USA does not supply this to their dealers. My dealer told me it would cost them too much to obtain, since they do not anticipate servicing too many CN's and Futura's!!!!!! I can't believe they call themselves an official dealership, when they can't service the bikes they sell. Anyway, let you know how it all works out. Besides the occasional stalling, this bike rocks!
:lol:

[StuO]

The service manual describes the use of a scan tool and proprietary software cartridge, along with a EGA, to adjust Idle CO, but I see no mention of adjusting any other ECM parameters. Then again, I haven't read the entire manual. Still, I'd think a dyno would be required, and how many shops do you suppose have one of those? LOL!

I don't think an ECM re-map is something that any manufacturer would entrust to its dealers. You'd have a situation where no two bikes performed the same and a lot of customer complaints. So it's not surprising to see the re-mapped ECMs coming only from Aprilia HQ. Good luck with your re-map job; let us know how it turns out.

[CapoNordTodd]

Roman's talking about using <a href="http://members.optushome.com.au/wmcdonal/" target="top">TuneBoy</a> to tweak the idle and off-idle percentages. As you say, it's not a 're-map' which would require a dyno to do properly.

Using TuneBoy and the <a href="http://www.aep.bigstep.com/Digital.htm" target="top">Gunson EGA</a> one can adjust idle CO. I'm interested to see what mine is, 'cause I know my dealer never touched it.

[roman67]

The TuneBoy software is for diagnostics purposes, but the TuneEdit software allows for remapping. In any event it's pretty expensive for both and as Stu mentions, you are in need of a dyno to do it correctly. Given the fact that the CN's should have come mapped properly from Aprilia, I believe that Aprilia should take care of this under warranty. The dealer agrees, but lacks the ability to do it!!!!!!!! After some research, at least Corse in Milwaukee has the software to do it, but no dyno. What else am I supposed to do?

[StuO]

I guess the first thing I'd ask is if you already have Aprilia's re-mapped ECM installed. I know they're tweaking them back in Atlanta and shipping them back, and I think I'd give them at least one shot at it before going for aftermarket solutions that may solve one problem while creating another.

My bike has one of the factory-tweaked ECUs. It's not perfect; I'm almost guaranteed one stall during warm-up. After that single episode, it's very good. Also, though I've never seen any magazine tests post fuel mileage figures for this bike, they all claim the bike is "thirsty." I ran through three tanks yesterday, all two-up and riding aggressively on mountain roads mixed with interstate. Speeds were mostly between 70 and 80 mph with one short run up to 120. Fuel mileage was 46.5, 46.6, and 46.7 mpg. Unfortunately, I don't know what the bike was doing with the original ECM, so I couldn't say if the re-map improves fuel consumption. But if this is "thirsty," I'll take it!

[StuO]

Oops! I forgot to mention - the other Capo I tested also had the tweaked ECM. It still stalled each time I tried to move off from a stop - had to rev the heck out of it and feather the clutch. It also exhibited other unacceptabe running problems. So maybe we're looking at more than one issue here, and the bikes seem to be affected randomly. Also found an MCN test claiming fuel mileage averaged 42mpg for them.

[RonS]

Mine had the same problem. I wouldn't call it a stalling problem, I would call it a low rpm or speed stumble. At the first service I had the dealer remap it. They said that it was extremely lean off idle up to about 2500 rpm. It required me to feather the clutch and get the rpm's up when taking off from a stop. If I didn't feather the clutch, it may well have stalled. After the mapping the problem is gone.

[silvercapo]

Thought I would interject here, for the benefit of any lurkers here who are considering the Caponord. Some folks are having some EFI problems, most likely faulty mapping. My bike, however, has been faultless in that department - from the moment that I picked it up new. It has never failed to start, has never stalled (except for one instance of rider error), and has quite seamless response throughout the operating range of the engine. This is my first motorcycle with EFI, so I was worried about that - pleasantly surprised, and thoroughly satisfied. I thought that the bike was rough (engine vibes) when I first got it - but it is quite smooth now (6000 miles). I had the dealer balance the throttle bodies at the first service, and this made a noticeable improvement in smoothness. I took a four-day trip to the mountains back in October, putting about 2000 miles on the bike. I averaged about 41 mpg for the trip, which included highway cruising at about 80 mph, and some fairly aggressive mountain riding. Since then, I plan on fuel mileage averaging about 42 without bags, and about 40 with the bags mounted.

Jack
Silver Capo
Pensacola, FL

[roman67]

Thanks for all the info guys! One thing I began to wonder about was whether or not this problem is more prevalent with early American CN's. My CN was #6 in the US for 2002. It sounds like the 2003's, as well as, older 2002's, as Stu mentions, do not suffer from this. Do you guys know which CN's you have? Any 2001's out there? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?
I do not have one of the remapped ECM's. I have an appointment with another Aprilia dealership in Milwaukee who knows what the problem is and is pretty confident they can fix it. I hope this is the case.

Thanks,

[CapoNordTodd]

Hi Roman!

When are you going up to Corse? I'm very interested in the results.

Capos were introduced in Europe in 2001, and not brought to America until 2002. I've got #1, by the way ( I assume you're checking VIN? Mine ends with '00001')

I'm also interested in 're-map'. Last I knew, there is only Version 1 available; there have been no updates....Okay, screw it, I just called Cory in Customer Service at Aprilia USA. He said

1) They will be requiring dealers to purchase the Axone tool and software to maintain and adjust the EFI. This is not currently a requirement to be a dealer (which is ridiculous--I'm glad they're fixing it).

2) When customers complain of an off-idle stumble, they don't change any of the mappings; they adjust the off-idle percentage and the throttle position sensor. (Didn't someone say part of his fix was to remove all slack in the throttle cables? Sounds similar)

3) They'll do it in one day and overnight the ECU back again.

Where's that FedEx offic again? :D

[silvercapo]

Since you asked, my bike VIN sequence # is 000316. Since mine is a later bike, perhaps it is set up differently than the earlier bikes. At any rate, no EFI problems here.

Jack
Silver Capo 02
Pensacola, FL

[roman67]

Todd,
Spoke to Travis at Corse today. I will be going next Friday. Let me know if your interested in going. Shoot me an email.:rollin:

[mtrionfo]

Just to add another data point: My Capo's VIN ends in "000296". I picked mine up in April of 2002. I also received the sidecases free as part of the "First 100" promotion. Go figure. :-)

As for the stalling/stumbling problem, early on my Capo had very minor symptoms. After the first service (done at around 800 miles), it was pretty much gone. The mech said he synched the throttle bodies, though I can't say what tool (electronic or otherwise) he might have used. Now at 8K miles the bike continues to run great.

Also FWIW, when I first replaced the check valve (as described on Todd's site) it was done to relieve the severe negative pressure building in the fuel tank. The vacuum was strong enough to make opening the gas cap a challenge and noticeably suck in the sides of the tank. I suppose concluding it was connected to the low-rpm stumbling problem might indeed be a good example of "internet science" on my part. :-) However, for two bucks it's easy to try and it definitely cures the vacuum problem in the fuel tank.

rgds, Marty - 02 Silver Capo (#296!)

[wwm3r90s]

Well, my problem is similiar, but slightly different: Below 50 degrees F, my bike will stall when approaching a stop. It's almost as if I shut the key off. I can restart the bike, but it will stall immediately if I try to go to idle. The only remedy I found was to cycle the kill switch. After which the bike will idle fine if it's warmed up. Seems like my problem is a faulty sensor of some sort? Any ideas? BTW, if the outside temp is warmer than 50 then the problem doesn't seem to happen. Thanks for your thoughts, wwm3

[StuO]

Mine is #000311, so it appears the symptoms are ramdom.

[nick1pick]

000077, and I did have it re-mapped without any further problems. Bike now has 20 thousand miles on it, and continues to run like a top.

dave

[StuO]

Mine shudders and stalls while warming up at idle. I temporarily installed a hose pinch on the vapor-out line of the cannister and haven't been able to get it to misbehave since. Open the hose, and the problem returns. Of course, that isn't a fix. If it turns out the cannister is purging too early (cold engine) and flooding the motor, I'm not sure how I'd approach that.

[clint]

I had this sort of problem with my bike, finally traced it down to a bad coil, it was arkin from the main body to the frame, replaced and sorted. also put in iridium plugs