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View Full Version : Dueling Grisos; 8V versus 4V



Jupiter
10-12-2008, 04:17 PM
[This post is an adaptation of a similar post on STN]

For the last few months as I’ve been wandering in and out of Moto International (Seattle’s Aprilia and Guzzi dealer) the Moto Guzzi Griso has been catching my eye. Dave has three or four 1100cc Grisos hanging around the showroom floor like nightclub bouncers. Shiny and black, like my soul.

When the Griso came out (in 2005?), I thought that it looked cool but lacked a mission. It was a more macho but less usable Breva. It didn’t have hard luggage or a windscreen. Was it a power cruiser without the power? A 550 pound city bike? A mellow country lanes bike, but without a real back seat?

But with time I’ve begun to appreciate the Griso’s looks more and more. And then Dave got in a 2009 Griso 8V. This is the new, improved Griso with a 1200cc engine that we first saw here in the States in the Stelvio. This is the Griso that won BIKE magazine’s four-bike comparo this month.

Let’s say that again, because you don’t get to say it often. A Moto Guzzi won a comparison test in Britain’s largest bike magazine. Given the quality of British bike mags like BIKE, you could effectively argue that this meant that an 8V Griso came out on top in a test in the best bike magazine in the world.

So I kept wandering through Moto International’s showroom while they fixed my Mille’s clutch, and lingering as they mounted freshy fresh OZ wheels on my Tuono, and I’d swing a leg over that new Griso and wonder what this was about. And say to myself, “I should ride the old Griso and the new Griso back to back.”

It became one of those things in life that sounds like fun but was just too easy to put off. For some reason yesterday I had one of those “Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday…hey! There is no ‘someday!’” epiphanies and decided to go see Dave the very next sunny morning.

This was that morning. After hitting the gym and obtaining the all-important hall pass from my wife I rode the Tuono over to MI and was first handed the keys to the new 8V Griso.

It looked like a black Griso:

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s177/raincitysmoothie/IMG_2605.jpg


Note the sunny weather--it doesn’t rain every day in Seattle. Actually, from July 4 to the end of October the weather is great. Of course March and April are gray as the inside of a Pittsburgh smokestack and wet as a dog at the beach.


http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s177/raincitysmoothie/IMG_2612.jpg



I’m not a big fan of aftermarket tail tidies because they always look cheap and, well, aftermarket. But something’s gotta be done about this rear fender/license plate monstrosity. Good God that plastic is a waste of our petroleum resources.


The 1200 Griso is a modern bike (This is a compliment). Everything just works.

Perfect bar end/seat/peg placement (granted, I am a relatively small guy at 5’-9” and 155). Clear instruments. Wonderful engine without lumps and dips in the powerband. Clicky-click shifter with a light action. Excellent brakes. It’s…well…it’s the bike the Japanese would build if they wanted to copy Moto Guzzi the way they want to copy Harley.

To the purist, this is probably a negative. But for me, a guy raised on Japanese motorcycles and without the reserves of patience for “character” required by a Ducati owner, it’s a big positive.

And it’s fun to ride. The riding position is classic standard, really, rather than cruiser. The seat height is relatively low and although it’s not light (maybe 550 pounds), the weight is carried low. The bike feels solid and all of a piece up to six or seven tenths pace (more on that later). The engine makes wonderful growls and burbles like a small-block V-8. It’s very tractable and sounds great without sounding strangled like the old bike (more on that later, too). Here’s a hairy-chested power cruiser rare enough that you’ll never see yourself coming down the street; it looks macho but it’s a big pussycat.

The cat has some claws, though. Twist the grip hard and it launches satisfyingly down the road. The redline is relatively short (8,000 RPM) but there’s not the feeling of running out of revs. BIKE dyno’d one of these at roughly 100 rear wheel horsepower and 75 lb-ft of torque and that seems about right. Not as much top end as my Tuono but plenty much for a naked standard, and with that much torque there is a sensation of immediate power when you crack open the throttle.

The Griso’s owner sees this tidy LCD instrument cluster every day. Very similar in layout to an RSV or Tuono, but with clearer lettering and somehow butch-er. Available are not just speed, RPM, odometer and dual trip info, but also a clock, real-time charging voltage, ambient temperature, rider and passenger heart rates, and a stock ticker.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s177/raincitysmoothie/IMG_2606.jpg

And I apologize for the lame-ass photography. Not my specialty...

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s177/raincitysmoothie/frontendretouched.jpg

Besides the red “8V” decals and the black handlebar, a couple of ways to distinguish the 8V from the 1100cc Griso are the radial brakes and these trick chevroned discs.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s177/raincitysmoothie/IMG_2618.jpg


From this pic you might think that my daughter Hallie is unexcited about Moto Guzzis. She is fourteen, however, so she wears this expression most of the time that she spends with her parents.


I got the feedback from my family. “Retro,” said my wife.

“It’s too serious,” said my ten-year-old. The three of them agreed on that. Fair enough, I suppose, but the point of this bike is strength and butch style and it has that in spades. So it’s a man’s bike.


http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s177/raincitysmoothie/IMG_2619.jpg

That’s more like it. A future Guzzista, perhaps?


Negatives for the updated Griso were few from my perspective. The suspension was just a little soft for my taste; fast bumpy corners had the bike moving around a little too much and I could feel its weight working against it. That said, for bimbling around town it was perfect and many Griso owners may not be interested in riding that aggressively anyway.

And it’s expensive. There aren’t many of these bikes available and MI is asking a little more than $14,000. It’s an excellent bike with remarkable build quality and I think it’s worth it if that’s what you want.




Then it was my turn on Griso Version 1.0. If the 1100 Griso could talk it would sound like Vito Corleone. And it would say something like “My throat hurts! I got laryngitis something awful. Call the Doctor. No, no, not Rossi, my doctor’s name is John Wittner.” There’s never been a motorcycle that wants an aftermarket end can more than the 1100 Griso. The Guzzi bark has been muzzled, and it’s a shame because this bike could sound wonderful.

The riding position isn’t quite as refined. The bars are just a little further from the seat and are wider, which isn’t good but just about the easiest thing you could fix on an motorcycle. The bars on the 1200 are black, too, which looks really nice. Before you leave your dealer with your new 1100 I’d have that bar changed to the new style.

The brakes and rotors are not as sexy as the 1200’s, but damn do they work well. They are the same Brembos that the Mille R had in 2002 and they corral the Griso’s ponies with ease and control.

So in conclusion the new bike is the way to go, right? Well, maybe not because the 2009 Griso is so expensive. The 1200 is over fourteen large, and Dave has brand new 1100’s for less than nine (which has gotta be one of the new bike bargains of the millennium). Do you want to/can you afford to spend $14,000 for a motorcycle when there’s one parked right next to it that is visually indistinguishable and almost as capable for $9,000?

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s177/raincitysmoothie/IMG_2621.jpg

The 1100 looks like this (the muffler is the giveaway). I realize that I’m an old, old man, old enough to remember the slide rule, but here’s fresh evidence that some technologies bring out the worst in human tendencies toward obsessive-compulsive disorder. This guy stood there while I parked up and took pictures, oblivious to everything but his texting. Jeez, dude, just call her. It’s so easy. The same device that allows you to communicate poorly with a text message can be used for effective voice-to-voice contact!


http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s177/raincitysmoothie/IMG_2623.jpg

Here’s the 1100’s front end. Not as sexy as the radial brakes and corrugated rotors on the bigger bike, but absolutely just as effective.



http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s177/raincitysmoothie/IMG_2626.jpg


SCORECARD
Riding position: The new Griso’s shorter bar and different seat make it the winner. As pleasant as a VFR.

Engine: The old Griso is fine ridden in isolation, but the new Griso rocks. What a wonderful engine.

Brakes: The old Griso doesn’t have the higher-end spec that the new Griso does…but it’s just as good. Remember, the old Griso’s brakes are the same that were awesome top-of-the-line binders for cutting edge sportbikes in 2002. A tie.

Handling: Both good; the new Griso wins with its nicer ergonomics.

Charisma: Pick ‘em. Only a dyed in the wood Guzzi fanatic could tell them apart.

Sound: From stock, the new bike all the way.

Cost: The old Griso is $5,000 less than the new one. The new one is a better bike, but the difference in value is not $5,000. You’d be miles ahead buying an 1100 Griso, an aftermarket muffler like the one below from Agostini in Italy, and upgrading to the new bike’s bar and seat. Presto, a bike with 95% of the capabilities of the 1200 for $3,500 less.


http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s177/raincitysmoothie/AgostiniCanclose-1.jpg

FUN DOG
10-13-2008, 10:25 AM
Yes, very good write up. I would get the 1100 because I'm not an aggressive rider and the extra umph would be lost on me. I also don't like the rotors on the new 1200. They look like flowers. Kind of ghey if you ask me on a "man's" bike.

Guzzi makes nice, distinctive looking bikes. I love the tranverse cylinders---absolutely gorgeous. One thing I don't understand is that block of metal under the cylinders. It's a rectangular box. It's so square. They need to round that off. I like Guzzi's, but they all have that block hanging down and it ruins the curves because it's so blocky. They need to round off the front end of that chunk of rectangular metal. What is that, the transmission?...oil sump? Outside of that, all the Guzzi's stand alone as the sexiest of the Italians in my opinion.

Maxacceleration
10-13-2008, 01:16 PM
The new rotors look like Galfer wave rotors...

bicilindricov60
10-13-2008, 08:11 PM
I would love to own that black 8 valve. Sexy piece of machinery IMO. If harley gave a crap they could have evolved into something as functional and sexy as the Guzzis, but thats another conversation....

rainh8r
10-14-2008, 03:41 PM
Most of the MI guys seem to favor the 2 valve engine over the 4 valve because it has beeter low end (in their opinion). Check out the used '07 red one they have now-it has the right pipe and fender mods already.

SF2DieHard
10-15-2008, 08:30 AM
I would love to own that black 8 valve. Sexy piece of machinery IMO. If harley gave a crap they could have evolved into something as functional and sexy as the Guzzis, but thats another conversation....

That's a _good_ conversation!


DM

Jupiter
10-15-2008, 07:43 PM
That's a _good_ conversation!

DM



I was thinking the same thing!

What would Harley be making if they'd evolved a bike like the Griso? The Griso 8V is a great bike with no excuses of any kind.

Although my Tuono is so light and powerful that after the Guzzi it's like riding the wind, I'd be happy with a Griso as my only bike.

There's not one Harley I can say that about. I could have a Harley as a second bike, sure. But not holding down the floor of a one-bike garage.

OZRS
10-15-2008, 10:21 PM
She is fourteen, however, so she wears this expression most of the time that she spends with her parents.

That's so funny cause it's so true. I though my olds were a drag when i was the same age. Now i aspire to be like my old man .

JohnG.
10-20-2008, 01:25 AM
[Quote]
Riding position: The new Griso’s shorter bar and different seat make it the winner. As pleasant as a VFR.[Quote]

J,
so the 8v Griso has better ergos for tall riders??
I'm 6'5" 31"inseam,& The old one killed my back:pissed:

vato loco
12-03-2008, 04:17 PM
Bravo. Nice comparo & commentary. With the 8V engine, the new Guzzi line-up is filling in quite nicely.

Glad to see you got the 14-year-old to finally :)!

jrflanne
12-03-2008, 07:35 PM
So Jupiter, did you bite the bullet and get the 4v or 8v. Man, if I was looking for a cruiser I believe a 4v with that hot as hell Agostura can just might be it. Kinda very Harley-like, without the Harley. Nice write up.

RossGuzzi
12-04-2008, 03:19 AM
A mate has the 1100 Griso and loves it. Ive ridden it in the country and it rolls along nice. I test rode a 1200 in the city and the fueling didnt seem dead right.
But having said that, my mate put on a s/s Termi. Wonderfull note! But fueling was a little off. He fitted a PC111 copy. Well it allows you to richen up only. But that is what it needed. Now, no poping on overrun, puurfect running!
By the way, I believe someone here fitted one of those pipes pictured above, or maybe it was a same side stacked twin pipe. They brake !!

RossGuzzi
12-04-2008, 03:20 AM
A mate has the 1100 Griso and loves it. Ive ridden it in the country and it rolls along nice. I test rode a 1200 in the city and the fueling didnt seem dead right.
But having said that, my mate put on a s/s Termi. Wonderfull note! But fueling was a little off. He fitted a PC111 copy. Well it allows you to richen up only. But that is what it needed. Now, no poping on overrun, puurfect running!
By the way, I believe someone here fitted one of those pipes pictured above, or maybe it was a same side stacked twin pipe. They brake !!

Marvoging
12-04-2008, 04:30 AM
Good writing, enjoyable report.
I could see one of those being a 'keeper'.
Yes, expensive though.

PallOlavsson
12-04-2008, 08:23 AM
Nice one! :cheers:
But I can see why tall guys can get back trouble when riding it..
I'm 6.2 and I coulden't even ride a supermoto on the road, without having a "twisted" back afterwards! :cheers:

But indeed a very nice bike!

JohnG.
12-07-2008, 12:52 AM
Nice one! :cheers:
But I can see why tall guys can get back trouble when riding it..
I'm 6.2 and I coulden't even ride a supermoto on the road, without having a "twisted" back afterwards! :cheers:

But indeed a very nice bike!

Yup,I'm 6'5" & currently on a Caponord...waiting for the OZ Govt EPA boffins to approve the Stelvio...& also the Sport 8v looks good too...
But,in no hurry,as Guzzi still has a few gremlins in the 8v motor to sort...
http://forum.guzzitech.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=2&func=view&id=864&catid=46&limit=20&limitstart=0

SF2DieHard
12-15-2008, 08:22 AM
You're 6'5" with a 31" inseam????
I'm 6'4" with a 36" inseam. I don't have the back problems you have riding my bikes.


DM

pete roper
12-18-2008, 06:05 PM
Interesting write up. Perhaps I can offer a bit more perspective on the two.

I bought one of the first 1100's in Oz. It was the bike I'd been waiting for for years. I'm not a 'Head down, bum up' rider, never have been but I do ride moderately hard on occasion. I value brakes, handling and suspension way over and above outright power and speed and have been known to cover long distances on bikes, principally Guzzis, over the years. The 1100 seemed to fit all my criteria of the bike I'd been waiting for. The Spineframes, although great bikes, had never 'Done it' for me and the price made me unwilling to spend that much money on a machine that didn't do anything that much better than my old Tonti framed bikes.

The Griso was another kettle of bannanas. My money was out the moment it was annonced and i bought mine without a test ride, sight unseen. I'm a Guzzi service agent and picked mine up from the importer and over the next two years put on 40,000Kms. Right up until the time I sold it it was absolutely faultless just needing routine 'Book' servicing although I over service as far as oil is concerned as it is my belief that 10,000Km intervals are too long, especially on a big air cooled engine. Just before I sold it the crownwheel support bearing in the rear drive went west. Early 1100's, Brevas and Grisos, had a problem with an inferior bearing. Mine was outside the recall range but when I stripped it it proved i had one of the crappy bearings, just bad luck I guess, shit happens, I dealt with it, (Not a big job.) and moved on. Then I bought an 8 Valver as soon as they became available and the 1100 didn't gt riden for about a month. When I tried to re-start it its dashboard spat the dummy:bangwall:. Irritating as the time had come to sell but once again, simply bad luck. If it had happened a month earlier I would of been able to warranty it! As it was it was the needle servo motor that had gone west, or one of its gears, that dash had always been noisy. That was the sum total of problems I had though. I sold the bike, supplied a new dash to its new owner and he's rapt with it.

OK. The 8V? Stock, out of the crate, the 8V doesn't fuel up as well as the 1100. There are a couple of issues and these seem to be better or worse depending on the machine. It really is a bit odd.

1.) The air temperature compensation is crap and this has a profound effect on how the fueling behaves at different ambient temperatures. This also is relevant I think to............

2.) The decay curve for the warm-up enrichening is too steep so the bike will tend to stall when started and during the fisrt few minutes of running, especially if the ambient temperature is cold.

3.) With the stock map, in warmer conditions especially, the engine has a tendency to 'hunt' on a light throttle, especially between 3,000 and 4,000RPM. This is particularly irritating in traffic BUT..........

There IS a 2nd map 'Not for road use' unfortunately that can be downloaded from Axone if you want to use your bike exclusively on the track:rolleyes:. The nice thing is that this addresses the third problem almost completely. The first problem? Well, the bike runs by far its best at 23*C give or take a degree, so when I've got a moment I plan to disconnect the air temp sensor and simply bridge the contacts with a resistor that offers the same resistance as that offered by the sensor at 23*C. You can probably guess which map my bike has loaded up;).

I know and respect Greg at MI but one of the things he, and others often mention is a lack of low down grunt on the 1200 compared to the 1100? Having owned and ridden both extensively, (My 8V is now at just over 10,000Kms.) I honestly can't pick where this defficiency in the bottom end of the 8V is compared with the earlier machine? It may of been true with the original map but I tend to think this was more to do with the extraordinarily lean set-up, especially in the closed loop part of the mapping, neccessary for the bike to meet E3 standards. If ever there was an engine that needs a map modifier of some sort? This is it. That's not to say that even in stock form it isn't a great engine, but it has a LOT more potential. Dyna are currently promising delivery of a new PC-V suitable for the W5-AM 'pooter some time in the new year. I await its arrival eagerly.

The only real 'Mods' I've made to mine are to ditch the stock pipe for one of Price Sloan's right hand exit cans and ditching the rear hanger for the numberplate and replacing it with a fender-elliminator kit purchased from Steelhorse Classics in the US. I could of fabricated my own but I'm basivcally a lazy sod and I'd seen their et-up on a pal's bike in LA so I took the easy option. It also had my screen and bags swapped over from the 1100 as I find the screen very useful on longer journeys and I have to carry crap on my bikes so bags are neccessary.

I actually preffered the brakes on the 1100 but I haven't yet tried different pad materials on the 1200 so that may make a difference. I remain underwhelmed by the petal rotors! Suspension is top-notch on both machines, in fact apart from the difference in caliper mounting I'd guess they are identical. As with my 1100 I found that the stock settings were FAR too stiff rather than soft. I had to back off the preload and both compression and rebound damping to get it to work well but when set up it is very good for such a big, heavy, bike. I'm no lightweight either, I come in at 100Kg! On a good day! The frame is superbly stiff. The stock tyres are AWFUL, I threw them away barely worn at about 1500 KM. They still looked good but felt dreadfull. Replaced with Avon Storms which suit the machine very well.

It is certainly not a 'Sports' bike and definitely not a 'Racer' but it is, as Guzzis have always been, a superb 'Road' bike. with the stock map it has a 'surge' at about 5,800, with the #2 map the surge starts a bit earlier, at about 5,500 but doesn't feel as extreme. It's no Tuono but with a bit of encouragement and abuse if you get things right it'll loft the front wheel in 3rd if you get the clutch and revs right. It's long wheelbase and weight do mean that you're at a distinct disadvantage if you come up against someone who can actually ride in the twisties but being honest few people bother setting their bikes up properly and even a fat old git like myself has few problems with most of the ocal 'Weekend Warriors' even on the 1100, the 8V just makes it less of a challenge:bump:.

I love mine, it is the perfect alternative to my Mana which is a great bike but in all honesty a bit bland. There is absolutely NOTHING bland about the 8V, it's a huge great roaring, shaking, antedeluvian, dinosaur wrapped up in a set of modern clothes to die for. In a world of bland, colourless 'Me Too' bikes it stands out like dogs balls!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3281/3077099300_99d005a43a.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3208/3077092494_d5fc57ec50.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3223/3076249477_41ebd1284b_m.jpg


Oh, yes, it went green. :happy:

Pete

RossGuzzi
12-21-2008, 05:19 AM
Kermit Griso !!!

pete roper
12-22-2008, 12:20 AM
Kermit Griso !!!

Snot easy being green:D

Actually the pics can't do it justice. It's the same green as the HSV Monaros use, lots of metalic in it. One of the mechanics at our W/S has a mate who is in NSW Highway Patrol and he turned up the other day in the lime green pursuit car. I accused him of painting the rozzermobile the same colour as my bike, then baited him a bit more by saying that I'd actually chosen the colour after nearly getting booked by one of his mates in it:cathat:. "Oh REALLY?" he said and I thought I might of pushed the wrong button but he was OK about it. I'm almost on first name terms with most of these blockheads anyway, even if I'm not going faster than the speed limit, (100KPH/60MPH on the open road, don't speed in town.) I tend to get a tug now and again as most of my bikes are a bit *obvious*:D:D:D

Pete

RossGuzzi
12-22-2008, 03:48 AM
I had a (very similar Porshe green) Ducati 1974 750 Sport !! Looked great with the nickel plated frame.

Bill in OKC
12-23-2008, 10:33 AM
I don't know if you have seen these but a lot of guys in Ducati Monsterland have had good results with them. Of course they are for off-road racing use only. Wouldn't want to get any of that on-road air dirty.
http://www.fatduc.com/