Witteveen "...it would be easy to make a bike in the 600-800cc class"

[Smoke Eater]

This is part of an interview in December's Roadracing World. Jan Witteveen is the Director of Aprilia Corse so it makes sense that he is focused on racing. But he would also be privy to other goings on in the company. Personally, I think its only a matter of time before Aprilia comes out with a small displacement sport bike. I'll be first in line for it.


RW: The big hole in the Aprilia lineup is still a middleweight sportbike. Have you done software simulations for a middleweight road bike engine?

Witteveen: Not presently because as you know, Aprilia is a young company. We started with 1000cc bikes because of the larger profit margins in the bigger displacement sportbikes, touring bikes, and custom bikes. We are now coming to that point where we need to think about entry level models, but that's more an issue of company philosophy.

I think we have the knowledge and experience, and it would be easy to make a bike in the 600-800 class. The problem would be to produce a good bike at an affordable price. The Japanese can achieve this through high-volume production.

RW: So the trick would be since you can't make one cheaper, to make one better.

Witteveen: Yes. But the good solution would be equal performance and price.

RW: But you don't see any technical barriers to Aprilia making a competitive 600cc road bike?

Witteveen: It depends on whether we decide to enter the AMA Supersport or World Supersport Championships. Then you need bikes to race in those series and that are better than the competition. At this time, only four-cylinder 600s and two-cylinder 750s are allowed in the World Supersport. Only four-cylinder 600s in the AMA Supersport series.

That makes it difficult for us because we need to remain original. So it cannot be a four-cylinder 600cc like everybody else. Under the current rules, we cannot come up with an original, competitive project. We would need a rule change. Another possibility is to stay away from racing and create an original motorcycle that is competitive in the market.

[KenpoKev]

There have been a number of veiled mentions for over a year now about "unique" engine configurations. The new V-Twin Super Moto bike is very slick, but I'm guessing that they want to do a Triple. For a smaller company to be playing in MotoGP with F-1 technology and not filter it down to a production bike would be financial foolishness. Mr. Beggio is a very good businessman and I have little doubt that elements of MotoGP will find their way to production.

I wish them every success. I really love my Aprilia...

[Crono]

Witteveen likes triples and he wants something different from a 600 4 l.
Could be very well a 600 triple.

Crono

[Smoke Eater]

I'm thinking the triple is being developed for Laverda.

[VikNWill]

That 450 dirt bike motor would make a hell of a RSV, a little underpowered maybe, but it would be different.


2003 predictions (http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16078)


A smaller Rotax V60 (700-800cc) would work nice if they decide to compete outside the 600cc super sport class. It would probably compete (as much as a 'priller could!) in showrooms against the 600s and the 749 Duc.


Will

[XPADREX]

The problem with pursuing the mid-size sportbike market is twofold:

1. That target audience is primarily a tough to insure group. A talk with a dealer of current 600s will reveal the beating they have been taking in sales.

2. Aprilia is, to me, considered almost a "grown-up" brand- the type of thing you buy after you've either been riding, or have already thrashed your katana and want a bike to appreciate for some time. The difference, perhaps, between Boone's Farm and a fine wine. No, I don't mean elitism, but rather a sense that "this is what we do, and this is what we do best".

I am liking the fact that their current lineup offers a fairly diverse range of vehicles from scooters to trackbikes, and of course, my own dear Capo. However, I'm not sure that the ever-changing and tough to get into 600SS class is a place for aprilia. If they do want to get into an "entry level" mark, how about a 600cc Tuono-type bike? The Monsters, regardless of what anyone thinks of them- got plenty of a$$es onto Ducati seats. Aprilia could do the same, without losing money to the ricer race-rep battleground.

Look at Triumph- they are trying to be all things to everyone, and IMO, might pay for that mistake in the future. People ride Triumphs because they want to ride Triumphs. The 600TT was destined for trouble right out of the gate, because the Japanese have a strong lock on that market, and the Ricky Racer magazxine-roller set. Aprilia can stick to strong race programs in the 1000cc class, which will offer "street (track?) cred" in a trickle-down fashion to all of their models.

I view aprilia as being a perfect combination of Italian "difference", BMW class, and Japanese reliability. People simply need to wake up, and give this marque a shot.

[Drt Boy]

"A talk with a dealer of current 600s will reveal the beating they have been taking in sales."


Tell him to contact me, we'll buy all his new 600's if he's willing to cost them out to another dealer. After all, we wouldn't want him to take too much of a beating on 'em. We can't keep them in stock!

Have you ridden any of the latest Japanese 600's? These bikes are amazing. I love my Tuono but am thinking about picking up a track-day bike and the R6 is looking good!

DB

[GeoR]

Me, I would definitely consider buying a 750-800cc twin if it's smaller and lighter than the Mille , the dimensions of an SV650 IOWs.
Don't want to see entry level suspension or brake components though.

[AV8OR]

Originally posted by GeoR
Me, I would definitely consider buying a 750-800cc twin if it's smaller and lighter than the Mille , the dimensions of an SV650 IOWs.
Don't want to see entry level suspension or brake components though.



:plus:

[GeoR]

It doesn't hurt to dream, does it?
Ok it's after xmas but there's always next year, so here's my wish list:

800-825 ccs in a much smaller engine block, smaller than the KTM is possible -provide a 750 high reving short stroke race kit for racing.
100 rwhp is ok, a little more wouldn't hurt but only if it has LOTS of grunt at low to mid, as in 3 to 7 krpms. Red line at 11k is ok but at least 50lbs-ft at 5k
Close ratio gearing for a realistic 155-160mph -don't need to be higher.

Sized liked an SV650 or a Buell - I rode out to the bike meet today and I was admiring the proportions on an new x12 "thunderbolt" or something, too bad about that 45 degree air cooled antique motor. :rolleyes:

Styling : Cafe racer, neither street fighter (bars too high, head fairing too small) nor race replica (bars too low, too much plastic).
Ultra modern or neo classical both are ok I don't really care but clipons w/moderately sporty ergos.

Chassis: 'prilia frame enough said, forks Showa, WP or Paoli USD (don't want to spend the mulah on Ohlins), double banana swingarm with linkage (no direct) and a really good rear shock.

Brakes: steal the complete system from the 04 R

Weight: not one freaking pound over 380lbs dry - 360lbs would be a lot better.

MSRP: USD $12,000


IMO this target is easily doable and it would sell like hotcakes.
That guys, is MY dream bike.

[XPADREX]

Drt Boy:

Where are you located? I am aware that they are still doing well in many metro locations, and in many states like Florida, etc.- but here in Ohio, there HAS been a decrease- primarily due to the insurance cost.

I spend a good deal of time at a multi-line shop, and when I heard that Yamaha's financial arm was offering what amounts to unsecured loans for sportbikes, I was able to see the writing on the wall.

Today's 600s ARE impressive- but in many ways, it's overkill. They are getting lighter, revving higher- both attributes which do not lend themselves to longevity.

In addition, their targeted market often has very little experience riding. That, couples with an increasing power-to-weight ratio, means that these bikes are heading for a crossroads.

In 2001, the #1 loss-claim model was a Yamaha R6. Full-coverage insurance for this bike isn't getting cheaper, nor should it! I certainly would hate to have to replace a bike some kid wadded after paying me one premium.

[AV8OR]

XpadreX,

Where is OH are you located????? Im in WV....you nearby at all?????

[Drt Boy]

XPADERX, I live and work in a dealership in St. Petersburg, Florida. We sell Honda, Yamaha and Aprilia. I couldn't agree more with your thoughts about the current crop of 600's as entry level machines. Hell, John surtes rode very few bikes that could keep up with any of the modern 600's that we call entry level. But this trend is not driven by the manufacturers, it's customer driven. Look at the "common sence" entry level bikes recently offered by the manufactures; Yamaha's seca II was a great entry level sport bike ....... sales looser! Suzuki's GS500E ...... looser! Honda's standards go from 250 nighthawk to 750 nighthawk and no real entry level 600 until this years 599 (which has great performance). Kawasaki still sells a few Ninja 250's (highly underrated bike) and 500's, but the customers want racer replicas.

I'd like to see a tiered licensing system, like England or Japan. I think it would save lives and maybe teach riders the joy of riding a small cc machine to it's max. When I made the decision to sell the car and ride full time I did a lot of research. Chose a '76 CB400F. Put 60k on that bike in 4 years. I think riding that small cc machine taught me things a larger bike never would. When Shelly, wife to be, learned to ride she put another 30k on the same machine. Her first bike trip was with that bike from Florida, up the BRP into DC, then back down the BRP and back to Florida. When she got her FZR1000 she knew how to handle it and never had a mishap of any kind!

We see too many wrecked 600's and too many customers who's ego's won't allow them to own anything equal to their skill level. I wish I had the solution, but I don't.

DB

[XPADREX]

AV8OR- I'm in Central Ohio, north of Columbus.

DrtBoy: I too think part of the problem is that the magzines don't often play up "lesser" offerings, and the build costs wouldn't necessarily vary between a smaller model and the 600cc, so people opt for the "biggun".

Kawasaki could update the looks of their EX500. Suzuki is making attempts with their new GS500, but the bottom line is that for most kids- what the magazine says is "the best!" is what they'll buy.

Credit is a lot easier to get today than when I was 18, and I see more kids starting on new bikes than back then.

Do I like tiered licenses? Sure- because not all newbies are kids! Many 40-somethings are getting clanged because their skills don't match their checkbooks. However, the one thing that will save sportbikes (remember, I see the market as tapering here- I know it does well elsewhere), is if the insurance companies get real. I'm in my thirties, and have been riding since I was 8. I don't want my premiums to go up because those companies are insuring bad risks- by that I mean young riders with little experience. If they want to, it should be priced accordingly to absorb that risk.

I used to have Allstate, who tried to raise my rates on my non-sportbike models because they "had significant loss claims on sportbikes", which I last heard they are not writing new policies for. Well, their bad call shouldn't be my problem. I dropped Allstate.

Back to the topic at hand, however- I think aprilia's mid-sized offering should be a "standard", or naked bike, to appeal to a broader audience. The Monsters have been popular, and the Guzzi Breva seems to be catching on.

[GeoR]

The Monsters have been popular, and the Guzzi Breva seems to be catching on.

Is the Breva that cool looking street fighter?
One thing about nakkid : the smaller the bike the less wind protection from the headlight and instrument pod and I hate handlebar mounted fairings, so an integrated head fairing (bikini)would be a must for me.
I spend too much time on hwys.

[Drt Boy]

Mid sized Tuono would be cool.

DB

[cggunnersmate]

I could see Aprilia doing something SV650ish, say a 650cc Falco type bike. If they could price it competitively with the SV650 but with Aprilia quality componentry and performance I think it'd be one helluva bike.:banana:

[XPADREX]

We might have some exciting things in store with their new 450 motor.

That is, if people could live with a more limited top speed than they currently crave in published figures from spooled-up I-4s.
:rolleyes:

I think it would be awesome.

[GeoR]

That is, if people could live with a more limited top speed
My problem with a 450 wouldn't be the top speed so much as the rpms involved. If I lived near the gap I may have been tempted, but I'm not into 8-14k rpms riding.
Same reason I said 800 cc in a 650 sized/weight machine, I rode the SV for a weekend and I spent the whole time between 7k and bouncing off the limiter :rolleyes:
Like most listers here the reason I ride a prilia Mille is because I like GRUNT! :D ......I'd just like a smaller but still grunty machine.
That to me would be the best of both worlds.

[montereyrsvr]

Track bike? An RSV 748R?? . I'd buy two.

[parkec]

Wondering.........................................

What if Aprilia could ease a 600 into a 250 frame???/