View Full Version : Showa fork re-valve: opinons/feedback?
06-11-2003, 05:54 PM
I'd like to hear lots info from people who have had their showa forks re-valved. Info such as which valve kit they used, what differences they have noticed. Currently my mille is set up really well, and handles very well. I'm not sure I'd gain much from tweaks. I only weigh 145 lbs.and have considered lighter springs but right now it feels taught and firm like a "super" bike. I'm curious about all this revalve action going round. I've ridden my best friends' R and the main noticable difference is in the stiffness from my non-adj dampner.
06-11-2003, 08:01 PM
Man, Coming off a 00 R6, the thing had crappy valves and weak springs, had traxxion rework them completely. The RSV has great forks in comparison. If you can set them up, preload, you should be in business. Our RSV forks do have both compression and rebound dampening, and they are pretty good stock. Yes, they are not Ohlins, yet they are a pretty good set up for the average rider. I weigh 160lbs and just got mine about 2 weeks ago. Plan on adjusting it this Friday. So far, my forks feel good, rear shock feels harsh. Have you tried to adjust your stuff yet?
06-13-2003, 06:38 PM
Yes my bike was set up by the original owner, it's always felt goos so I haven't messed with it. Other than to raise the forks one notch in the trees. Which make the bike turn faster (almost too fast for city riding, but really smart at speed).
06-14-2003, 07:44 AM
The OEM forks aren't bad at all.
Having said that, I've had both Race-Tech and Ohlins internals.
The Race-Tech kit was very nice, though the valving change was Rebound only.
As you might expect, the Ohlins kit is better: Smoother and with a wider range of adjustment, and for the additional $100 you get a reworked Rebound stack as well as Compression. The kit # I have is 03200-01, and there is a second kit who's part number escapes me. The disadvantage is that it's more sensitive to adjustment, so you'll need to get used to making 1/8 turn and smaller changes. That and it's more difficult to find somene with Ohlins experience as well as the special tool it takes to dis/re-assemble a Showa rebound stack.
06-14-2003, 09:48 AM
Scott, If you don't mind sharing, where and who did the Ohlins set-up for your RSV forks. Also, what did you do about your rear shock. Yesterday while trying to dial in my sag, found the spring to be alot weaker then I expected. The rear preload is really cranked in and still too much sag. Any suggestions?
06-14-2003, 10:22 AM
I've had my 99 Uk model forks re-valved with Ohlins kit 03200-25 and reprung for my fully kitted weight of 84 kilos (thats 184 lbs...). The spring rate is now 0.85, oil is Ohlins 7.5 grade- level 140mm.
The result is fantastic for road riding at any rate - I wouldn't call it taught (that sounds like the ride is too hard to me). The basic result is that the bike soaks up the bumps -without affecting the line even in very tight corners, it goes exactly where you want - you can just relax which of course makes it handle better anyway. The suspension works for you
Just been riding it round the the twisty roads in South of France, and after a few adjustrments handling was perfect.
Do it - best money spent on "normal" RSV especially if you are on the light side.
I have Ohlins AP840 shock too - again with a ligher spring.
06-14-2003, 11:18 AM
I was just re-reading my orginal post and realized that I wasn't clear in saying that the only difference I've noticed between my showas and the ohlins was my dampner, I meant the heavy non-adj. of the steering dampner. It's easy to get used to untill I rided my friend's R and wish I could dial it back for daily use.
Scoteg, I concur I'd like to know where you got all your suspention work done. Thanks for all the comments ya'll. I've done two track days and the showa/sachs has treated me fine, but of course I have to wonder/tweak.;)
06-14-2003, 11:40 AM
scissors2kill, If you are looking to get suspension done then I would have some insite for you. If you want to upgrade your showa internals Don at Scuderia does that with the ohlins kit. Thats what they run on there B race bike, from what I am told it is as good as the ohlins unit. Or you can have your suspension revalved from after shocks in palo alto, thats where I got mine done at. And also you can go to lindamnn in San Jose I use to get my suspension done there also but after shocks is closer to my work.
If you go with Scuderia I can get you a discount :D
Haven't put on the slider yet will do this weekend, thanks again.
06-14-2003, 01:15 PM
I had my showas redone by Scuderia, probably the best thing I've done to the bike. I wish I would have done this earlier. Ohlin valves and a new spring to match were installed. The bike is so smooth through the corners, it doesn't feel like its diving in the front. I've got four lines now showing on the fork.
Now I just have to get a Ohlin or Penske rear to match.
06-14-2003, 02:29 PM
where did you buy the ohlins internals?
06-14-2003, 08:17 PM
Guys, Please leave the phone numbers of both places that rework the showas with the Ohlins internals and also the place to purchase the kit needed.
06-14-2003, 10:25 PM
I spoke with someone at Lindemann- they said they were having better and better luck running heavier and heavier springs in the rear- upwards of 900 lbs/whatever (inch?)- Apparently the superfast guys are having problems with the bike not finishing the corners because the rear end is squating too much on the throttle coming out of turns...
Also spoke with Max at Traxxion- he figures that the springs in the Showa forks, if they are actually 1.0mm/kg as Race Tech says, are about right- I'm about 185 lbs, for use for track day type stuff.
I, too, am interested in making the suspension work better, but after putting on the OZ wheels, I'm starting to think the suspension is fine the way it is and that getting rid of the Brembo wheels is the ticket. Ride is much smoother. Really noticeable. I'm thinking it's just the reduced inertia from the lighter weight wheels.
06-14-2003, 10:53 PM
red01kyrsvrider, here is the web sites
06-15-2003, 01:39 AM
I had the Showas reworked by a local comapny in Northern Ireland using their own internals and the damping is much improved and the action of the forks far smoother than the originals with absolutely no "jerkiness" at all.
I considered the Ohlins intrnals but from whet I could see they were more track orientated while I wanted forks for "Real road" riding. The Ohlins are excellent but having the benefit of a company who do a lot of conversions for professional road racing teams I decided to go with their system.
Interestingly I am also now using a lighter set of springs, they felt the stock springs were to hard for road use.
06-15-2003, 06:26 AM
1) If you cannot get proper sag in your forks or shock, you need a stiffer springs. THIS IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN PLAYING WITH VALVING!!!! If the bike is not sprung properly, then playing with damping curves and clicking on adjusters is not going to cure the problem. That may only mask the handling issues.
- Rule 1 for your springs is think of BOTH ends of the bike. If they are different (we have a stiff front and slightly soft rear), then making them the same should be your goal. You can go a LOTS faster, with more confidence on a softly sprung bike as long as it's balanced. A stiffly sprung, unbalanced bike will just be punishing to ride, and will display all kinds of handling weirdness.
- The Corrolary: If the racers are telling you 0.95 or 1.0, and you are a street rider, think seriously about not going quite that stiff. I've found that knocking 10% off a race setup works very nicely for aggressive street. This is what I run now, because that's the way I ride. Seriously - If the tech you are speaking to starts going off on "this is the same setup the fast guys use...." then find a way to rein him in or think about going elsewhere. (***Ever tried to ride a race setup on the street in the rain?? Don't!!! It's that scary!)
Now, my current setup was done, in it's entirety, by Ohlins USA:
Íhlins USA Inc.
703-C Old Spartanburg Road
Hendersonville, N.C. 28792
Tel. +1 828 692 4525
Fax. +1 828 692 0595
They are also the same folks who sold me the kit internals for my forks, and who revalved the Mille SP shock I got off of eBay to fit my bike. (Yes, 99~00 Milles are different from 01+ Milles are different from the SP) . Normally that facility is for servicing existing products and for racer suppoer. I got the sense that they didn't really *want* to do the Showa forks, but since it was an Ohlins kit they took the job.
They did a sweeeeeeet job: I told them I am primarily street, but that I might hit a trackday once or maybe twice in a year. The tech set the forks up for proper street sag with the adjusters fully out (about 15mm internal preload, I believe...), so I could dial in a racey-er setup and still have wiggle room for more preload. Very nice!
06-15-2003, 08:45 AM
I've been hearing about how the bike needs a certain amount of sag without the rider, then sagging to a certain amount with the rider. The numbers I've been hearing are for racer stuff...
And Scott, how much did Ohlins charge for the work?
06-15-2003, 10:48 AM
My Showa forks were reworked by Computrack Los Angeles. They used the Race Tech gold valves and kept the stock coils for the 220# rider. 5wt fork oil is being used. I absolutely love how these things work now, controlled and compliant. And I could not agree more with scotteq's comment about maintaining overall balance, whether or not you have the correct springs.
06-15-2003, 03:53 PM
I agree that my initial impression was the forks were over sprung and rear shock seems to be very soft. How far can I crank the preload down on this puppy? Its the Sachs shock FYI. Right now I have 20mm of thread showing above the lockring. Didn't want to have to preload the crap out of the spring, yet looking like I don't have a choice. Also my front springs are 6 rings showing, and stock ride heights. I went for a good ride today, still not totally pleased with the setup. I also believe in having the springs matched to rider weight. Thanks again for providing the POCs for the work guys.
06-15-2003, 04:49 PM
On my 2000.5 standard RSV it always felt soft out back, no matter what I did to compensate. Preload can get you proper sag values- unless you're a 220#er like myself- but if the spring-rate is too soft it will still not act right. You'll always feel it's not right. What I did a few months after buying was get ahold of a '00.5 Mille R's Ohlins shock (NOTE: later Rs have a different rear linkage and springs) and that change alone made the bike feel much more balanced. It was still on the soft side for my weight but you could do the biz with it. Getting the rates right later put it where it's at now...awesome.
06-15-2003, 04:55 PM
i'm getting my tuono resprung next week. so i'll give you all a good comparison write-up. when i first got the tuono, i had a friend who used to work r&d at racetech there with me. we started to mess with the suspension but he said it would never be right for someone my weight. so it's reasonably well set up for my size. but the respring should be interesting. i've never had a bike sprung properly for my weight due to me being cheap.
06-15-2003, 07:33 PM
I don't remember the part # for the Ohlin valve kit. Unfortunately, I don't have the receipt anymore either. The work was done in San Francisco @ Scuderia. I had the revalve and new spring done for just over $450. I sure most other reputable shop can get the same kit.
Like I said on my earlier post, I wish I did this mod 3 years ago. I just had it done 3 months ago on my 00.5 model.
I'm going to do something similar on my RS250.
06-16-2003, 09:43 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> I've been hearing about how the bike needs a certain amount of sag without the rider, then sagging to a certain amount with the rider. The numbers I've been hearing are for racer stuff...
And Scott, how much did Ohlins charge for the work?[/quote]
The shock revalve was $130, plus a new spring at $97.45, and a new bleed valve (which you may or may not need) at $49.00. So $277 for a complete overhaul on the SP shock. A simple spring and servicing should be cheaper...
For the forks, it cost $269 for the valving ("piston") kit, $122 for new springs, $20.30 for spacers and seals and $160 labor. So $573 for a complete overhaul on the forks.
Plus $45 for 2 day (surface) fo ship all 3 pieces via UPS from NC to NJ.
Note - As pointed out above, there is more than one valving kit for our forks. Call Ohlins and ask them what they recommend for *your* bike and *your* weight. Their recommended spring rates are biased on the track side of things, so if you're borderline between two spring rates think about sticking with the lower.
06-17-2003, 10:16 PM
I'm about to install the racetech gold valve kit for the front forks and you guys have me wondering wether or not to go ahead and get the gold valve kit for the rear shock as well. I weigh about 210 to 215, and the only reason i'm doing the race tech front end is to get more feel and more traction, however I think the rear is fine, but i'm no expert. I was going to wait until I had to replace the oil in the shock as per manual, but now the whole balance thing has me thinking?:rolleyes:
06-18-2003, 07:55 AM
Didn't matter what bike l've owned, l've installed the correct weight springs and revalved both front and rear.
I had custom valving done on my previous bike but that was for the track where minute changes make a difference. If you just going to do the occasional track day and mainly road ride, Gold valves and correct springs are the way to go.
Oh...don't forget to set you sag properly...utterly important that you understand what sag means as all the valving and string, regarless whether it's a Showa or Ohlins or WP shocks; won't mean a thing.
With you want a guide, l have a great document that l can email you.:D
06-18-2003, 08:01 AM
Does anyone know what rate fork springs are in an '03 Tuono?
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