Faulty cam chain tensioner??

[bullit in head]

Right to start off a little background info

My bike is AN RST futura has 37500 miles on it and is self maintained.(to a high standard might I add)

recently I've been having a strange engine knock, it would manifest it's self at 4000-4500 rpm when on load, but especially when cold.

Today I have removed both front and rear cam chain tensioners. now one of them is quite softly sprung( I can compress it with my fingers) the other is rock hard and has no give at all.I mean none not even in monkey spanner.

so which one is the duff one??

and if it's the stiff one will it of stretched the chain to such an extent that It'll need replacing as well?


http://uk.geocities.com/andrewmoorby946@btinternet.com/caminternet.jpg

bullit

[kzmille]

These tensioners use a combination of spring and hydraulics to maintain chain tension. When full of oil they hydraulic lock to prevent any rapid compression. The one that feels solid is probably just full of oil and the other has air in it. The solid one is probably fine. The soft one may be fine as well or it could be defective. Submerge it in oil and pump it to bleed the air out. If it becomes solid like the other it is probably OK.

[bullit in head]

thanks ... your right. I released the pressure and the stiff one lossened up...


now when I put it back in do I refill the oil in the soft one..(providing it tests okay)




bullit

[Ed / AF1 Racing]

inspect the rear cylinder counter balancer shaft too....check the bearings and end float on that shaft.....heard of a couple of those going out of spec, and making noise on high mileage bikes.

[bullit in head]

thanks ED . that is the next thing to change as I KNOW it is out of spec, (it slapps backs and fore like a good un ) but I have a problem, my spares stockist doesnt have any and says there none in Italys stores to order from.... do you have some in stock I can order??



bullit

[Ed / AF1 Racing]

AP0220440 Upper balance shaft $159.99
AP0211683 Bushing plate cpl $119.99
AP0832360 Ball bearing 16002 $32.99

all listed as in stock in the USA, 5-7 days to us, then to you

[danman]

The tensioner that is soft is bad, I had one take a dump on mine while running on the dyno at AF1. Micah sold me a set of used ones after he tested them and I had to replace only the one in the front cylinder. After I replaced the one that would not hold pressure all was quiet again.

[kiddo]

PM me if you want to end your tensioners troubles.... I have the cure.

[toycloser]

Have you checked you oil for ugly little peices of metal? A strange engine knock at 4000-4500rpm sounds awefully familiar.

[woodman]

Hey bullit... did you ever figure out what exactly was causing the knocking in your engine?
My Futura has turned 35,000 miles and is making the same knocking noise you describe. What did you have to do to cure it?

[bullit in head]

good to bring up old threads.....

well the answer is yes and no..... I got it better....

after going through and swapping the cam tentioners them selves( not a really easy job) it didnt really sovle the problem , the last thing I did was to pre fill/pressureize the tentioners with engine oil this solved it for about 1000 miles, so I think (/could be very wrong) that there is an oil pressure problem thats failing to pressurise them up fully , or I have another duff tentioner thats causeing leak by.

the three tentioners I have all work on the bench by hand, the one that was soft originally stiffened up when filled with oil. :confused:


bullit

[woodman]

Thanks for the info.
I took mine for a test ride down the street without a helmet so I could hear the engine good and at about 3000 rpm under load the knocking starts and continues to about 4500 rpm. At idle and above 4500 rpm's the engine is quiet. The engine has always made a ticking noise but never bad and the valves are in specs so I figured it was just a trait of this v-twin.
The noise is getting loud enough now that I am concerned so looking for ideas where to start.

Does anyone make a manual cam chain adjuster?

[deefred]

Manual cam chain adjuster discussions http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1549235&postcount=1

Not to start an oil thread but what oil are you using?

[bullit in head]

woodman , thats the exact same symtoms I had. also there is a dip in (arse dyno) power when it's knocking.....

like I said mine is slightly better now it only does it occationally and at very specific rpm's somewhere about 4-4.5 k

I did think about those manual ones . if you go for them put up a little review please!

bullit

[woodman]

Manual cam chain adjuster discussions http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1549235&postcount=1

Not to start an oil thread but what oil are you using?
Mobil1 15W-50 silver cap

[TPadden]

Mobil1 15W-50 silver cap

Not to start a pasta burner thread .......... If that's you Louis??? :eek::eek:
Guess who added another to his Eye-tallion stable?????? :cheers:

Tom
Gainesville, Mo.
Weeki Wachee, Fl.

[deefred]

How about the rear upper balancer shaft?

I replaced the bushing plate as it was scored.
The endfloat didn´t change however.

I think my engine is more silent now, but It could also be because of the staintunes I installed and the correct oil now used (15-15W instead of
the previous 10-40W)

[woodman]

Not to start a pasta burner thread .......... If that's you Louis??? :eek::eek:
Guess who added another to his Eye-tallion stable?????? :cheers:

Tom
Gainesville, Mo.
Weeki Wachee, Fl.
Yes, it's me...and I am jealeous. You have way too many bikes. Do you still have the Brutale?

[woodman]

How about the rear upper balancer shaft?

I replaced the bushing plate as it was scored.
The endfloat didn´t change however.

I think my engine is more silent now, but It could also be because of the staintunes I installed and the correct oil now used (15-15W instead of
the previous 10-40W)
I know I notice the engine noises more now since I put the stock exhaust back on. I use to have a BEF full system and it was so loud I wouldn't have heard a rod knocking.

Does anyone think going to a 20W-50 conventional oil would help?:confused:

I have not checked for end play in the balance shaft, I suppose the noise could be coming from there

[TPadden]

Yes, it's me...and I am jealeous. You have way too many bikes. Do you still have the Brutale?

Yep - and Multistrada......:D.

Tom

[woodman]

Yep - and Multistrada......:D.

Tom
I hate you!!







:kidding:

[grhunt1]

These tensioners use a combination of spring and hydraulics to maintain chain tension. When full of oil they hydraulic lock to prevent any rapid compression. The one that feels solid is probably just full of oil and the other has air in it. The solid one is probably fine. The soft one may be fine as well or it could be defective. Submerge it in oil and pump it to bleed the air out. If it becomes solid like the other it is probably OK.

am havin tensioners problems i think. a oil pipe poped on mi and ran nearly dry before my dum arse noticed. now av got a rattle that dont sound good coming from front pot do u think it will be tensioner . will it do any damage and will it fill its self up if i just fill up the oil.any help appreciated muckers:worship::worship:

[bullit in head]

I would hope that they fill themselves up , but....


maybe theres a special way to install them that I dont know about.

but,I hadto take it out fill and burped it so it was solid and put it back in , no problems since then, unfortunatly for you the front is the hardest to get to:rolleyes:.


bullit

[kiddo]

Maybe I can help you resolve this problem once and for all.
I am building and selling manual camchain adjuster kits.
They are leakproof and foolproof, CNC machined from 6061 T6 round stock.
Detailed, step-by-step Installation Instructions with photos and high quality, copper sealing washers are included with each kit.

I have attached a photo of the kit contents.

They have been selling well enough so that I have been able to lower the kit cost to $80. PM me if you want a set sent out.

Thank you.

[grhunt1]

I would hope that they fill themselves up , but....


maybe theres a special way to install them that I dont know about.

but,I hadto take it out fill and burped it so it was solid and put it back in , no problems since then, unfortunatly for you the front is the hardest to get to:rolleyes:.


bullit
thanks for the info. i just cucked in oil and and hoped it would sort its self and it did after about 2 min. been away sorry for late reply thanks again gareth. and any one know of a replacement inline fuel pump (for a rsv) i had a moded standerd on it but its no good.:pissed: been looking but cant find anything :tired: